Roster Building Thread VI (2022-23): Offseason edition

[Machinehead]

The spot was there when we moved on from Strome. If Lafreniere didn't have THREE career powerplay points in 267 minutes, he's on PP1.

 

[Anthony5967]

They play as much as the vets do at even strength. Lafreniere and Kakko actually played more than Kreider at even strength. Zibanejad played 11 more ES minutes than Kakko did the entire year. Eleven.

It's just special teams. That's the entire difference. I'm not sure where Kakko fits on our powerplay even if he deserves and Lafreniere is quite literally one of the worst powerplay players in the last 30 years.

They've been developed like ****. Both were go-to scorers their entire lives. Quinn and Gallant, used sparingly on the PP. That also helps develop confidence and creativity. They have stifled both guys. You're in front of 18,000 fans and finally get out there. How would you do? I'd be nervous and as conservative as possible to avoid blowing my chance. That's with TWO coaches now. This is on management. Goes without saying that the GM and Coach MUST be on the same page this time around because they're done if these two don't become a priority. Kakko is sick of it, and so are many others.

PP1 next year:

----------Kreider------------
Zibanejad--Chytil--Kakko
--------Fox---------

PP2 next year:

-----Trocheck------
Panarin--Othmann--Lafreniere
-------Jones-------

 

[Machinehead]

Wouldn't this go both ways though? We can say that we haven't seen Lafreniere do it at the NHL level, but at the same time, has the coaching been ideal for him to actually grow?

If Panarin's regression is in part because everyone just jumps into the pool, is Lafreniere's growth and development also stymied by this same factor? I'd expect someone that is a near 10 year veteran in the league to be able to jump in the pool and make it work while someone who doesn't have that to fall back on to and fall on their face.

If this is Drury's mindset, neither will be going anywhere in the offseason, and I'm more inclined to think they'll hope whoever they get to be the coach gets them to that spot.

You're not wrong. You have to apply the same logic to every player. I just don't see any plus skills that Lafreniere has. He's good at precisely nothing.

I could very easily see Kakko being good in a system. If you can't see Panarin's potential, you're seeing what you want to see - his biggest detractors will admit he has all-world talent.

What does Lafreniere do to encourage you that he succeeds with a different approach?

 

[Machinehead]

They've been developed like ****. Both were go-to scorers their entire lives. Quinn and Gallant, used sparingly on the PP. That also helps develop confidence and creativity. They have stifled both guys. You're in front of 18,000 fans and finally get out there. How would you do? I'd be nervous and as conservative as possible to avoid blowing my chance. That's with TWO coaches now. This is on management. Goes without saying that the GM and Coach MUST be on the same page this time around because they're done if these two don't become a priority. Kakko is sick of it, and so are many others.

PP1 next year:

----------Kreider------------
Zibanejad--Chytil--Kakko
--------Fox---------

PP2 next year:

-----Trocheck------
Panarin--Othmann--Lafreniere
-------Jones-------

I'll give you Kakko. Kakko had more PP points in like November of his rookie year than Lafreniere has in his career.

I would put Vesey on the powerplay before I put Lafreniere there.

Lafreniere has played three full games of powerplay minutes in his NHL career and has three points.

He sucks in the easiest assignment a player can get. I think that tells you what you ultimately have in him.

 

[McRanger92]

I think everyone has the Gaborik trade in mind when they envision trading Panarin. I think we're forgetting a few things:

-John Moore ate glue and we had Dorsett for half a season. It was Gaborik for Brassard 1 for 1 which is what I think this ends up being if it happens.
-Brassard literally only being good with the Rangers was obscene luck.
-Panarin to Rangers Brassard is still a massive downgrade.
-This team does not win the Cup if you sub out Panarin for Rangers Brassard.
-This team possibly doesn't make the playoffs if you do that.
-After everyone said the same things about Gaborik as they're saying about Panarin, he beat us for the Cup the very next year and was OUTSTANDING in that run. I think it's because his team was actually good enough to win or something, Idk...
-Flipping Brassard for Zibanejad was even more obscene luck and it's disingenuous to include that as part of the Gaborik deal.

I'm open to it and I understand the frustration with the player, but expect the team to get worse. Full stop.

If we need to get a worse next year to get better moving forward, I am open to it. That being said, Panarin aint leaving.

 

[NickyFotiu]

1. As long as Adam Fox skates like he is Derek Stepan in his own end we need to figure something out on that first pairing. Either a better linemate or get Fox in to great shape. Watching Fox in the playoffs made any comparisons to Brian Leetch look like an insult to Brian in my eyes.

2. The Leafs have a lot of big names and so do we. Maybe a exchange of some would be good for both teams?

 

[McRanger92]

They play as much as the vets do at even strength. Lafreniere and Kakko actually played more than Kreider at even strength. Zibanejad played 11 more ES minutes than Kakko did the entire year. Eleven.

It's just special teams. That's the entire difference. I'm not sure where Kakko fits on our powerplay even if he deserves it and Lafreniere is quite literally one of the worst powerplay players in the last 30 years.

You keep saying this but he doesnt turn 22 until opening night next year. Disingenuous to say this is what he is and has no chance to get better. The Rangers have a vested interest in him succeeding, and it's time to put him in a position where he actually can as a scorer.

Panarin, Zibanejad, Kreider, Trocheck, Chytil, Kakko, Lafreniere, Othmann/Cuylle. Make 2 4 man units, split the ice time evenly and have Fox play for the full 2 minutes. Stack the top PP in situations where the team needs a goal late. I don't see why this isn't doable.

 

[TheBPA]

1. As long as Adam Fox skates like he is Derek Stepan in his own end we need to figure something out on that first pairing. Either a better linemate or get Fox in to great shape. Watching Fox in the playoffs made any comparisons to Brian Leetch look like an insult to Brian in my eyes.

2. The Leafs have a lot of big names and so do we. Maybe a exchange of some would be good for both teams?

Was thinking the same. If the Leafs get swept, do you float a Panarin for Matthews or Marner trade to them? Salaries are close, obviously the latter two are younger but Matthews only has 1 year until UFA, and Marner 2 years until UFA.

 

[bleedblue94]

That’s fair and I understand the point. I might not agree with it but it’s not unreasonable. I don’t get why are you throwing laffy in the deal because of his contract? You clear the space you have room for him or wait for a team to overpay him in an offer sheet and take that. Basically you’re saying panarin for a 2nd and then laf for 20th and Dickenson who is very meh and paid 2.6 for another 2 years.

i dont think you get a second for panarin, i actually think panarin with all factors is a future considerations at best. laffy is the part that gets you assets and covers everyones ass from it being a contract dump. it obviously is but people can spin it somewhat based on the quality of the draft. if you can swap panarin for dickenson i would make that swap today without blinking. this franchise needs a shake at its core AND it needs that contract off the books

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Adam Fox and his "Stepan esque" skating nearly set like every statistical playoff record for the Rangers last year.

Can we f***ing focus on things with this team that actually are problems?

 

[NickyFotiu]

Was thinking the same. If the Leafs get swept, do you float a Panarin for Matthews or Marner trade to them? Salaries are close, obviously the latter two are younger but Matthews only has 1 year until UFA, and Marner 2 years until UFA.

I would be 100000% in favor of those kind of trades BUT it will take more on our end than just Bread.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

They've been developed like ****. Both were go-to scorers their entire lives. Quinn and Gallant, used sparingly on the PP. That also helps develop confidence and creativity. They have stifled both guys. You're in front of 18,000 fans and finally get out there. How would you do? I'd be nervous and as conservative as possible to avoid blowing my chance. That's with TWO coaches now. This is on management. Goes without saying that the GM and Coach MUST be on the same page this time around because they're done if these two don't become a priority. Kakko is sick of it, and so are many others.

How can a coach like Gallant with no offensive system (allegedly) according to everyone here stifle both guys?

 

[bleedblue94]

They play as much as the vets do at even strength. Lafreniere and Kakko actually played more than Kreider at even strength. Zibanejad played 11 more ES minutes than Kakko did the entire year. Eleven.

It's just special teams. That's the entire difference. I'm not sure where Kakko fits on our powerplay even if he deserves it and Lafreniere is quite literally one of the worst powerplay players in the last 30 years.

pp time is a chance to highlight individual skills for players with time, space, and vision. laffy is so bad bc his shot is below average, his mobility is below average, his passing is below average, so they try to stuff him in front of the net to try to screen or tip pucks but he's not good there either. it is amazing how unimpactful he is on the pp.

kakko seems like a kid that could learn the right halfwall or could become a net guy but he needs consistent reps.

agree?

How can a coach like Gallant with no offensive system (allegedly), according to everyone here stifle both guys?

via deployment

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

via deployment

Huh? They've tried him everywhere. I've never seen a player of his pedigree that needs to be put in such a perfect scenario to succeed.

 

[McRanger92]

1. As long as Adam Fox skates like he is Derek Stepan in his own end we need to figure something out on that first pairing. Either a better linemate or get Fox in to great shape. Watching Fox in the playoffs made any comparisons to Brian Leetch look like an insult to Brian in my eyes.

2. The Leafs have a lot of big names and so do we. Maybe a exchange of some would be good for both teams?

The only trade that makes some sense for both teams is Nylander for Panarin

 

[TheBPA]

Actually, in looking at the Leafs roster, too bad Bunting plays LW. He is a guy that could be worth going after and may be cheaper than previously thought due to his playoff suspension.

 

[bleedblue94]

The only trade that makes some sense for both teams is Nylander for Panarin

why would that make ANY sense for toronto? are you retaining 50% of panarin? how can they afford him?

panarin is a worse version of nylander right now...

 

[TheBPA]

The only trade that makes some sense for both teams is Nylander for Panarin

Leafs can't just take an extra $4 million. You probably have to take back Matt Murray in the deal too if you're not retaining. Willing to do that?

 

[McRanger92]

why would that make ANY sense for toronto? are you retaining 50% of panarin? how can they afford him?

panarin is a worse version of nylander right now...

2 guys who did nothing in the playoffs. It's not that deep because there's no trade happening there

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Despite being ready for the glue factory, I would take Kane back for the vet min...but not much more than that. Still would like Tarasenko back.

Chytil must be moved to W. No more C.

 

[bleedblue94]

Huh? They've tried him everywhere. I've never seen a player of his pedigree that needs to be put in such a perfect scenario to succeed.

he is constaly moved around, he has not just been left on mika's wing, he has had no real stability with pp time or placement. not all of this is on the staff, kakko can and should be better, but good orgs help their youth by providing support and stability. we have had two coaching staffs provide none of that to kakko and actually use him at times as a scapegoat around here. Quinn all but publically named kakko as a player that he knows he f***ed up with during an interview after he was fired. i dont think anyone can defend turks utilization of youth on this roster for the past 2 years.

2 guys who did nothing in the playoffs. It's not that deep because there's no trade happening there

i mean even on the surface it is stupid for toronto.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

he is constaly moved around, he has not just been left on mika's wing, he has had no real stability with pp time or placement. not all of this is on the staff, kakko can and should be better, but good orgs help their youth by providing support and stability. we have had two coaching staffs provide none of that to kakko and actually use him at times as a scapegoat around here. Quinn all but publically named kakko as a player that he knows he f***ed up with during an interview after he was fired. i dont think anyone can defend turks utilization of youth on this roster for the past 2 years.


i mean even on the surface it is stupid for toronto.

He gets a ton of ES time. Maybe he's just lazy, or not that good? Again, I've never seen a player of his pedigree who needed to be put in such a perfect situation to succeed. Odd.

 

[bleedblue94]

He gets a ton of ES time. Maybe he's just lazy, or not that good? Again, I've never seen a player of his pedigree who needed to be put in such a perfect situation to succeed. Odd.

I think we will find out a lot during the WC and see if getting away from here brings a different player.

 

[Savant]

Leafs can't just take an extra $4 million. You probably have to take back Matt Murray in the deal too if you're not retaining. Willing to do that?

I’d take Murray back if I could get Nylander out of it.

Expiring contract; but so is Nylander are we sure we want to pay Nylander’s next contract though?

Marner would be more interesting if they are sick of him. Panarin and Goodrow for Marner and Murray and you just LTIR Murray and:l/or let him walk

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I think everyone has the Gaborik trade in mind when they envision trading Panarin. I think we're forgetting a few things:

-John Moore ate glue and we had Dorsett for half a season. It was Gaborik for Brassard 1 for 1 which is what I think this ends up being if it happens.
-Brassard literally only being good with the Rangers was obscene luck.
-Panarin to Rangers Brassard is still a massive downgrade.
-This team does not win the Cup if you sub out Panarin for Rangers Brassard.
-This team possibly doesn't make the playoffs if you do that.
-After everyone said the same things about Gaborik as they're saying about Panarin, he beat us for the Cup the very next year and was OUTSTANDING in that run. I think it's because his team was actually good enough to win or something, Idk...
-Flipping Brassard for Zibanejad was even more obscene luck and it's disingenuous to include that as part of the Gaborik deal.

I'm open to it and I understand the frustration with the player, but expect the team to get worse. Full stop.

Gaborik/Panarin is a bad comparison. Shooters go on heaters some times and can light it up. Ovechkin, who has been better at scoring goals than ANYONE to ever play the game once pulled a Panarin and went 1-1-2 against the Rangers over 7 games. Sometimes it just doesn't go in for these guys, others times they can't stop scoring (your favorite player in the world right now is a shining example of this.) Thats no Panarin's game, it never has been. Lafreniere had more HDCF 5v5 than Panarin did this year and I'm pretty sure he did last year as well (playoffs.) Granted I missed the first 9 periods of this series and maybe those were better, but he was mostly horrendous from game 4 onwards (with game 5 being not as bad, he did some things in that game where he probably picks up a point or 2 with some luck) but games 6 and 7? May have been our worst forward. There are some glaring holes in his game that have been made clear in both this year and last year's runs and some of it is really tied to an erosion of skill, he doesn't have the escapability that he used to have and he isn't versatile enough (even if he was willing which to this point he hasn't been) to adjust his play style to mitigate that.

Plus it took Gaborik playing with someone who was actually better than he was to get him going. Even if someone better than Panarin who could do the same for him were available we wouldn't be able to add that guy because Panarin and others make too much f***ing money.

I don't think its a lock that the team would be worse without him. I wouldn't feel confident saying that they'd definitely be better, but thats really tied to the fact that there are more problems on this roster than just Panarin. I could easily see a scenario where they are though. Like you, I used to be pretty anti "death by a thousand cuts" ala Carolina or Seattle but theres some merit to it, plus this team already has 2 guys who are better at scoring goals than anyone on that team (Aho led them in Goals, he had as many as Kreider who shot like 2% on the PP this year.) I don't think that even with the pieces here, that its that tough of an adjustment to make and that with the right adds they can be certainly be better next year.

I don't think the PP would really fall off with out him. It really runs through Fox as it is.