Putting Nils into our defense does nothing to make it better.
Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXV
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- Jul 16, 2005
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I don't think Schneider replaces Trouba "just like that," but I do think sooner rather than later Schneider will be Trouba's equal or near-equal.
Am I willing to trade the downgrade from Trouba to Schneider for a legit top 6 center prospect and some salary flexibility to bring back Vatrano and Motte and maybe give Kakko a longer term deal? Yes.
There is more than one move at stake here. We aren't keeping Vatrano and Motte without moving out salary.
Yes, ok. I agree.
But I'm not looking at this in a vacuum. This isn't a punishment for Trouba because he's not worth his salary, it's a means to acquiring a more desperately needed future top center and also some cap flexibility which is also needed.
I think as Miller supplants Trouba in the pecking order as early as next year, as Schneider becomes a legit 2nd pair defender next year, and as Robertson and Jones are that much closer to being able to handle NHL duties, the loss of Trouba is outweighed by the gains you get from having the future top center and being able to bring back your depth.
Very possible on that front. Just spitballing ideas. From our side it makes sense.
But I know anytime you mention any veteran being moved this board reacts violently. Can't move Trouba! Can't move Kreider! Can't move Zibanejad! Have to keep them all so we can run this window into the ground!
- Jul 16, 2005
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Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz give it a rest with the Nils hate.
He isn't good.
Why you keep on trying to stuff him in there in lieu of a guy is MUCH better and act like you're just taking a small hit, I don't know. The last thing we need is a tiny guy who can't skate or move a puck on the back end.
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He is a fine prospect and there's nothing to say that he isn't. Your irrationality regarding him is as ridiculous as EdJovanoski's constant propping of Kravtsov. It's satire at this point.
Right, Nils as a third pair defender in the future makes us worse.
Well, he can do both those things, and the role I'm stuffing him into is third pair defender next to Robertson.
You might notice that I'm not arguing that he should be replacing Trouba. Trouba is being moved in my scenario for other benefits. My proposal would look the same if Nils quit hockey and went home to be a sorghum farmer in Sweden. Put Hunter Skinner in there or any old veteran instead if it makes you feel better.
Why is Jacob Trouba waiving his NMC to play for the Red Wings?
Artemi Panarin-$11,642,857-NMC
Mika Zibanejad-$8,500.000-NMC
Chris Kreider-$6,500,000-NMC through 23-24,15 team NTC list in last 3 seasons of the contract
Adam Fox-$9,500,000
Jacob Trouba-$8,000,000-NMC through 23-24/15 team NTC list in 24-25/12 team NTC list in 25-26
Igor Shesterkin-$5,666,667
====================================
$49,809,524
The Rangers need to work around those commitments. Everything else is all bullshit.
Artemi Panarin-$11,642,857-NMC
Mika Zibanejad-$8,500.000-NMC
Chris Kreider-$6,500,000-NMC through 23-24,15 team NTC list in last 3 seasons of the contract
Adam Fox-$9,500,000
Jacob Trouba-$8,000,000-NMC through 23-24/15 team NTC list in 24-25/12 team NTC list in 25-26
Igor Shesterkin-$5,666,667
====================================
$49,809,524
The Rangers need to work around those commitments. Everything else is all bullshit.
JimmyG89
Registered User
- May 1, 2010
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The thing will be with next season in mind is that the organization is going to bank on the kids becoming top 6 options. They're going to have to. You can keep Copp to replace Strome.
Right now, you don't need Kakko or Lafreniere in the top 6 since you have veteran options and depth. With a cap crunch, Lafreniere and Kakko are going back into the top 6 in October. Vatrano is going to cost too much. Strome won't be back. It's either Kreider-Zibanejad-Kakko/Laf or Panarin-Copp (or other viable 2C)-Kakko/Laf.
Drury needs to have Lafreniere with Kreider this summer. Go spend a few weeks home and come back and train. One of the biggest hurdles for him seems to be the physical aspects of things. Having him in Prentiss will only help. Didn't Miller train with Kreider last summer? Look at the leap we're seeing there.
Right now, you don't need Kakko or Lafreniere in the top 6 since you have veteran options and depth. With a cap crunch, Lafreniere and Kakko are going back into the top 6 in October. Vatrano is going to cost too much. Strome won't be back. It's either Kreider-Zibanejad-Kakko/Laf or Panarin-Copp (or other viable 2C)-Kakko/Laf.
Drury needs to have Lafreniere with Kreider this summer. Go spend a few weeks home and come back and train. One of the biggest hurdles for him seems to be the physical aspects of things. Having him in Prentiss will only help. Didn't Miller train with Kreider last summer? Look at the leap we're seeing there.
- Jan 18, 2012
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@EdJovanovski : Kravtsov
@mas0764 : Lundkvist
@duhmetreE : Being Right
@tlk : Panarin
@Machinehead : Anything anti-ADA
there's some things not worth arguing here
- Jul 16, 2005
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Edge has mentioned a few times that the Rangers have had discussions about eventually approaching Trouba and/or Kreider about waiving. And while they can't force them to waive, once a team tells you they want to move you that is usually an enticing reason to explore options you'd accept.
The enticing reason that Trouba might accept would be that he's from Michigan and that team is on the upswing with young talent.
It's mostly just spitballing ideas. I see way more reasons for the Wings to turn it down than us, though.
I do not believe one bit that the Rangers will never entertain moving those salaries. The flat cap was instituted after they were signed and these are second-level players for the Rangers (ie, they are not the stars getting star money or playing star roles like Zibanejad, Panarin, and Fox). While the contracts were reasonable when signed the cap squeeze has made them much harder to stomach. They aren't gonna lose a Lafreniere, Miller or Kakko to keep 29 year old Jacob Trouba.
I'm sure Trouba will still be here next season and Vatrano and Motte and Strome will be gone and Kakko will be bridged and we still will lack center depth though.
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I definitely see your point that when EdJovo says Kravtsov is the next Gretzky, that it's exactly the same as me saying Nils will be a good second or third pair defender someday. Like, exactly the same.
MrAlmost
Beer league hero.
- Jun 3, 2010
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Trouba won't waive for DET and I doubt they want him.
Also, when looking at it, the Rangers can make it work cap wise until that 2024-25 season most likely. At that point, I think people should think about where Panarin will be traded. He seems like a likely candidate to be moved at that point.
Also, when looking at it, the Rangers can make it work cap wise until that 2024-25 season most likely. At that point, I think people should think about where Panarin will be traded. He seems like a likely candidate to be moved at that point.
SA16
Sixstring
Neither are likely candidates to move as neither is likely to waive. Perhaps Trouba when it switched to a modified NTC.
JimmyG89
Registered User
- May 1, 2010
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Like seriously, maybe Nils would be in a better spot if he wasn't playing with Nemeth, Hajek, or Tinordi. I'm not asking for the world when it comes to a D partner. There are guys that are actually good as a #5-#6. The left handed version of Braun, or even just Braun. I'd like to see that before making more judgements about a top prospect in our system.
- Jul 16, 2005
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Duhmetre and Uninstaaled aren't being honest about him anyway (or don't know what they are watching).
Nils was not bad by any metric while he was playing. He just didn't stand out either. That's not exactly a massive indictment. We happen to be blessed with a lot of young talented defenders though.
McRanger92
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The rest of the roster will be re-worked to accommodate those guys I bet. I think we lose sight of the fact that those guys are the best players on the team by a wide margin.
The reality is that Chytil Kakko Lafreniere and eventually Kravtsov are competing with each other to stick around, the same way KAM & Schneider have distinguished themselves above Jones & Nils.
Gorton may have been looking to unload Trouba/Kreider, but nothing Drury has done has given me the impression he has any interest in that.
BBKers
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Like Í sáið. It hæs to be wórþ it… Icelanðic spellchékk is fúnný
MrAlmost
Beer league hero.
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Well since everyone else gets to live in fantasy land where our best defensemen (Yes, he has been our best dman this year) waives his no move clause to go from a potential Cup Contender to another rebuild because home-sick, well then dammit I am going to live in my fantasy land.
- Jan 18, 2012
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you're not there yet but you're extremely defensive about Nils.
The point is, there's not an objective discussion when certain players are involved.
- Jul 16, 2005
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The next time you or Uninstaaled undertake an objective discussion about Nils, it will be the first time.
"I'm not there yet." Yet, or ever.
It's not an absurd take to say Nils remains a top flight prospect who acquitted himself rather decently overall if not downright well, but was just outplayed by Schneider. And that Nils retains solid top-4 defender upside.
"He sucks," is the way more insane take here.
- Jan 18, 2012
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No one has ever said he sucked. He provides nothing this team needs over the 3 RHD in front of him.
It's been beaten to death. He was given the opportunity to run away with it. He didn't. Now he got passed by Schneider.
PuckLuck3043
Stairway To Heaven
I agree with you on Lundkvist. I see him as a solid, middle pairing RHD in the near future. It's tough to come over from the bigger ice surface and just play with the big boys. He should have played the year in Hartford from the beginning. He didn't play that poorly either, he was more just meh. His trade value is also more than people realize.
- Jul 16, 2005
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I think Schneider will be close to Trouba's level within 2 seasons and that Miller probably surpasses him next season. Fox is already better.
At some point, being the third best defenseman with the fourth barking at your heels, that salary is just not justified anymore, if you could fetch another top asset back and free up cap space to extend your young kids to long term deals (like, for example, Miller himself).
It's probably true that Trouba will not waive to Detroit and Detroit probably wouldn't accept that deal anyway, though I've absolutely seen deals go down in this league that made far less sense for a side to accept, multiple times. Teams value veterans sometimes especially when they are young like Detroit, and Detroit has cap space.
But if we agree that Trouba is not seeing the end of that contract here, and I don't see any way he makes it all the way through, then it's a matter of finding the time when you get the best return weighed against how much his departure will hurt.
Right now he's vital to this run. Next year will be less so.
Even less the year after as Miller, Fox and Schneider all may be better than him. Taking his ST time away. Where is the impact for that salary? If you can find a team actually willing to give an asset of value for him, it's a huge win.
- Jul 16, 2005
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Uhhhh..... ---V
Speculation: - Roster Building Thread - Part XXXV
Putting Nils into our defense does nothing to make it better.
Isn't that what I just said? I had him as the third pair defender. Behind Schneider.
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