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Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXV

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mas0764 said:
I think Schneider will be close to Trouba's level within 2 seasons and that Miller probably surpasses him next season. Fox is already better.

At some point, being the third best defenseman with the fourth barking at your heels, that salary is just not justified anymore, if you could fetch another top asset back and free up cap space to extend your young kids to long term deals (like, for example, Miller himself).

It's probably true that Trouba will not waive to Detroit and Detroit probably wouldn't accept that deal anyway, though I've absolutely seen deals go down in this league that made far less sense for a side to accept, multiple times. Teams value veterans sometimes especially when they are young like Detroit, and Detroit has cap space.

But if we agree that Trouba is not seeing the end of that contract here, and I don't see any way he makes it all the way through, then it's a matter of finding the time when you get the best return weighed against how much his departure will hurt.

Right now he's vital to this run. Next year will be less so.

Even less the year after as Miller, Fox and Schneider all may be better than him. Taking his ST time away. Where is the impact for that salary? If you can find a team actually willing to give an asset of value for him, it's a huge win.
Click to expand...

I think the Rangers are more than fine going forward with a D core of Fox, Miller, Trouba, Schneider. There’s no team in the league that wouldn’t
 
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duhmetreE said:
Trading Trouba to make room for Nils Lundkvist is not a thing.
Click to expand...

I wasn't trading Trouba to make room for Nils. As I said after to Uninstaaled, I would be trading Trouba for other reasons. The resulting empty spot on RD has to be filled by someone. It can be Nils, it can be Hunter Skinner, it can be a cheap vet, whatever.

The hole created by Trouba's departure would be a downgrade. The question is, do the benefits of trading him outweigh that downgrade?

Benefits of my proposal (assuming, hypothetically, that he'd waive and Detroit accepts the deal):

- we acquire a desperately needed future top 6 center in Lambert, that we don't have to otherwise overpay for
- we shed $8m in salary, and that salary is used to extend K'Andre Miller, Kakko, Lafreniere, and perhaps retain depth like Vatrano and Motte
- it creates room for not-as-good-but-still-better-than-their-salary prospects such as Robertson and Jones (and ~cough~ Nils).

You take a short term hit on second pair D for the short term benefit of keeping your forward depth. You also solve long term center. You free up space to sign your kids. And Schneider is CLOSE to what Trouba is soon anyway, so within another season you don't really feel Trouba's departure.

All that is a trade I'd be willing to make.
 
McRanger92 said:
I think the Rangers are more than fine going forward with a D core of Fox, Miller, Trouba, Schneider. There’s no team in the league that wouldn’t
Click to expand...

I'm sure they are and in an uncapped world we could keep on going down this path. Even in a regularly capped world it would probably be fine.

In a flat cap world we are gonna be squeezed. Meanwhile we have you suggesting that we might need to trade Kakko because of his bridge contract "demands."

I am flabbergasted how much value people are assigning to a non elite defender of whom we have a carbon copy on the rise in the org. I do not see the value in having him as the fourth defender paid big money if it causes us to have to scrimp by at forward or lose out on an opportunity to lock up the kids to reasonable deals, AND if I could, theoretically, get back a prime asset.

The appeal here isn't that Trouba sucks and we gotta get rid of him. The appeal here is that we still are desperately short at center with dwindling assets to address it and that we are cap crunched, making guys like Hertl and JT Miller relatively untenable as well.

If, in a hypothetical scenario you could use Trouba to get up in the draft for a coveted center without taking salary back, it fixes all our problems. The hole created by his departure isn't as that big a problem because Schneider takes over there, and Miller is getting better and better to pick up the slack. The hole created is really a third pair hole, and we have Jones and Robertson there too. It's a minimal issue in comparison to future top 6 center and some cap flexibility to bring back a guy like Vatrano.
 
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mas0764 said:
I know certain posters continue to hate this idea, but I can't be stopped!

Trouba and our first round pick to Detroit for their pick if Brad Lambert is on the board (Trouba waives because he's from Michigan).

Rebuild officially over. Salary freed up. Future 1C acquired. Future defense enshrined. If not right away, eventually the following:

Miller - Fox
Jones - Schneider
Robertson - Nils

You've got size on every pairing there.

Lafreniere - Zibanejad - Kreider
Panarin - Copp - Kakko
Vatrano - Chytil - Kravtsov
Motte - Goodrow - Blais

Money left over for long term extensions for Miller, Kakko and Lafreniere. Lambert future 1C.. He, Othmann, Cuylle, and Berard in the wings to fill in for Vatrano, Blais, Copp and Motte who get short/medium term extensions. Also that f***ing fourth line is dominant.

#winning
Click to expand...
As much as I absolutely LOVE Trouba right now, IF this were possible I'd grudgingly do it.
 
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mas0764 said:
I know certain posters continue to hate this idea, but I can't be stopped!

Trouba and our first round pick to Detroit for their pick if Brad Lambert is on the board (Trouba waives because he's from Michigan).

Rebuild officially over. Salary freed up. Future 1C acquired. Future defense enshrined. If not right away, eventually the following:

Miller - Fox
Jones - Schneider
Robertson - Nils

You've got size on every pairing there.

Lafreniere - Zibanejad - Kreider
Panarin - Copp - Kakko
Vatrano - Chytil - Kravtsov
Motte - Goodrow - Blais

Money left over for long term extensions for Miller, Kakko and Lafreniere. Lambert future 1C.. He, Othmann, Cuylle, and Berard in the wings to fill in for Vatrano, Blais, Copp and Motte who get short/medium term extensions. Also that f***ing fourth line is dominant.

#winning
Click to expand...

That defense is not playoff material. Maybe it will be in a few years, but putting in 3 inexperienced players is a recipe for disaster. I don't see how anyone can pencil in those 2nd or 3rd units and think that they'll be successful.
 
mas0764 said:
Duhmetre and Uninstaaled aren't being honest about him anyway (or don't know what they are watching).

Nils was not bad by any metric while he was playing. He just didn't stand out either. That's not exactly a massive indictment. We happen to be blessed with a lot of young talented defenders though.
Click to expand...
One thing I'll say is that I think Fox/Trouba/Schneider is what the organization will be going with for at least the next two years. Lundkvist would need to beat out Schneider for a spot. It could happen.

Also, is Jones the compliment to Schneider on the 3rd pairing? Kind of feel like there is pairs that would be preset. Jones-Schneider and Robertson-Lundkvist. Compliments to one anothers game.

I'm not sure Lundkvist makes it beyond the next TDL if he isn't on the roster. He'll want to be in the NHL and on top of that would be an asset in a position of depth organizationally that could bring something back at the deadline. I would still like to see him tried with someone that could play before being moved, but it just might not happen.
 
mas0764 said:
I wasn't trading Trouba to make room for Nils. As I said after to Uninstaaled, I would be trading Trouba for other reasons. The resulting empty spot on RD has to be filled by someone. It can be Nils, it can be Hunter Skinner, it can be a cheap vet, whatever.

The hole created by Trouba's departure would be a downgrade. The question is, do the benefits of trading him outweigh that downgrade?

Benefits of my proposal (assuming, hypothetically, that he'd waive and Detroit accepts the deal):

- we acquire a desperately needed future top 6 center in Lambert, that we don't have to otherwise overpay for
- we shed $8m in salary, and that salary is used to extend K'Andre Miller, Kakko, Lafreniere, and perhaps retain depth like Vatrano and Motte
- it creates room for not-as-good-but-still-better-than-their-salary prospects such as Robertson and Jones (and ~cough~ Nils).

You take a short term hit on second pair D for the short term benefit of keeping your forward depth. You also solve long term center. You free up space to sign your kids. And Schneider is CLOSE to what Trouba is soon anyway, so within another season you don't really feel Trouba's departure.

All that is a trade I'd be willing to make.
Click to expand...
bruh

If you think this deal has any basis in reality, there's a massive disconnect

Kreider and/or Trouba will be traded when we're up against the cap and have literally no other option. We're not trading our Vet defenseman from our top pair for a futures Center... especially when his stock has fallen.

This is the team we're going to have for the next 2-3 years, minus some minor tweaking here or there. Improvement comes when our kids get better.

You're 2-3 years early. I know what Edge said. Things change. Laffy and Kakko will not cost big cap space. Kreider and Trouba are integral pieces for our success.
 
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mas0764 said:
I'm sure they are and in an uncapped world we could keep on going down this path. Even in a regularly capped world it would probably be fine.

In a flat cap world we are gonna be squeezed. Meanwhile we have you suggesting that we might need to trade Kakko because of his bridge contract "demands."

I am flabbergasted how much value people are assigning to a non elite defender of whom we have a carbon copy on the rise in the org. I do not see the value in having him as the fourth defender paid big money if it causes us to have to scrimp by at forward or lose out on an opportunity to lock up the kids to reasonable deals, AND if I could, theoretically, get back a prime asset.

The appeal here isn't that Trouba sucks and we gotta get rid of him. The appeal here is that we still are desperately short at center with dwindling assets to address it and that we are cap crunched, making guys like Hertl and JT Miller relatively untenable as well.

If, in a hypothetical scenario you could use Trouba to get up in the draft for a coveted center without taking salary back, it fixes all our problems. The hole created by his departure isn't as that big a problem because Schneider takes over there, and Miller is getting better and better to pick up the slack. The hole created is really a third pair hole, and we have Jones and Robertson there too. It's a minimal issue in comparison to future top 6 center and some cap flexibility to bring back a guy like Vatrano.
Click to expand...

I’m not reading that because I’ve seen it all before, but you saying there’s going to be a cap squeeze is correct. The difference is the Rangers can’t squeeze the guys with trade protection, so the young players will be the ones taking less or getting dealt.
 
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It's tight, but this works for the start of next season:

Signings:
Copp - 6 years @ $4.75m
Vatrano - 4 years @ $2.75m
Kaako - 2 years @ $2.4m
Kravtsov - 1 year @ $1.25m
Blais - 2 years @ $1.5m
Back-up goalie for $1m

Trades:
Georgiev for picks
Nemeth for pick

Kreider-Zibanejad-Vatrano/Lafreniere
Panarin-Copp-Kaako
Lafreniere/Vatrano-Chytil-Kravtsov
Hunt-Goodrow-Blais
Reaves

Lindgren-Fox
Miller-Trouba
Jones-Schneider

Shesty
$1m backup

$0.5m cap space


If the Rangers trade Reaves and keep Brodzinski around, they actually have about $1.45m in cap space

Perhaps some of the guys I show as re-signed get a bit more, but I doubt it. It's even possible someone like Blais comes back below his previous contract based on his injury to get some term.
 
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mas0764 said:
Edge has mentioned a few times that the Rangers have had discussions about eventually approaching Trouba and/or Kreider about waiving. And while they can't force them to waive, once a team tells you they want to move you that is usually an enticing reason to explore options you'd accept.

The enticing reason that Trouba might accept would be that he's from Michigan and that team is on the upswing with young talent.

It's mostly just spitballing ideas. I see way more reasons for the Wings to turn it down than us, though.

I do not believe one bit that the Rangers will never entertain moving those salaries. The flat cap was instituted after they were signed and these are second-level players for the Rangers (ie, they are not the stars getting star money or playing star roles like Zibanejad, Panarin, and Fox). While the contracts were reasonable when signed the cap squeeze has made them much harder to stomach. They aren't gonna lose a Lafreniere, Miller or Kakko to keep 29 year old Jacob Trouba.

I'm sure Trouba will still be here next season and Vatrano and Motte and Strome will be gone and Kakko will be bridged and we still will lack center depth though.
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Two more seasons. The NMC's for Kreider and Trouba become limited NTC's. The only problem is the cap will be flat for 24-25(it was reported 3 more seasons of flat caps a couple of weeks ago). Maybe the Rangers could retain some cap to move Trouba. His full trade protection ends after 23-24.
 
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If it's true Kravtsov is coming back...

Lundkvist, Jones, Georgiev +conditional pick for Chychrun @ 50%

Re-sign Copp


Kreider Zibs Lafreniere
Panarin Copp Kravtsov
Othmann/Cuylle? Chytil Kakko
Goodrow Brodzinski Hunt/Reaves

Long shot but maybe one of our kids LW make the team... if not Goodrow fills in..

KAM Trouba
Chychrun Fox
Lindgren Schneider
 
duhmetreE said:
If it's true Kravtsov is coming back...

Lundkvist, Jones, Georgiev +conditional pick for Chychrun @ 50%

Re-sign Copp


Kreider Zibs Lafreniere
Panarin Copp Kravtsov
Othmann/Cuylle? Chytil Kakko
Goodrow Brodzinski Hunt/Reaves

Long shot but maybe one of our kids LW make the team... if not Goodrow fills in..

KAM Trouba
Chychrun Fox
Lindgren Schneider
Click to expand...

Salary cap says no
 
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NYR Viper said:
It's tight, but this works for the start of next season:

Signings:
Copp - 6 years @ $4.75m
Vatrano - 4 years @ $2.75m
Kaako - 2 years @ $2.4m
Kravtsov - 1 year @ $1.25m
Blais - 2 years @ $1.5m
Back-up goalie for $1m

Trades:
Georgiev for picks
Nemeth for pick

Kreider-Zibanejad-Vatrano/Lafreniere
Panarin-Copp-Kaako
Lafreniere/Vatrano-Chytil-Kravtsov
Hunt-Goodrow-Blais
Reaves

Lindgren-Fox
Miller-Trouba
Jones-Schneider

Shesty
$1m backup

$0.5m cap space


If the Rangers trade Reaves and keep Brodzinski around, they actually have about $1.45m in cap space

Perhaps some of the guys I show as re-signed get a bit more, but I doubt it. It's even possible someone like Blais comes back below his previous contract based on his injury to get some term.
Click to expand...

And this all looks fine, with the exceptions of no veteran option at 7D.

I think Drury is going to want someone there in case Jones struggles. Robertson is still a season away by the most optimistic projections.

I think my addition to your scenario includes trading Chytil for some draft picks.

Also, wouldn't be terribly surprised if Cuylle becomes a midseason callup for the bottom 6.
 
Amazing Kreiderman said:
Salary cap says no
Click to expand...
Salary cap says Yes.

3GyJgRi.png


Move Lindgren the following season +added dead cap space
 
Last edited:
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NYR Viper said:
It's tight, but this works for the start of next season:

Signings:
Copp - 6 years @ $4.75m
Vatrano - 4 years @ $2.75m
Kaako - 2 years @ $2.4m
Kravtsov - 1 year @ $1.25m
Blais - 2 years @ $1.5m
Back-up goalie for $1m

Trades:
Georgiev for picks
Nemeth for pick

Kreider-Zibanejad-Vatrano/Lafreniere
Panarin-Copp-Kaako
Lafreniere/Vatrano-Chytil-Kravtsov
Hunt-Goodrow-Blais
Reaves

Lindgren-Fox
Miller-Trouba
Jones-Schneider

Shesty
$1m backup

$0.5m cap space


If the Rangers trade Reaves and keep Brodzinski around, they actually have about $1.45m in cap space

Perhaps some of the guys I show as re-signed get a bit more, but I doubt it. It's even possible someone like Blais comes back below his previous contract based on his injury to get some term.
Click to expand...

What is Kravtsov getting a raise?
 
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I cannot wait for this Kravtsov mess to just get resolved and his name no longer attached to the organization.
 
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