Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXVI - Point Of No Return

[RangerBoy]

“I think general manager Jeff Gorton’s attitude is, ‘Listen, we’re a rebuilding hockey team. It behooves me to listen to whatever anybody pitches at us,’” said McKenzie. “I don’t believe that Gorton and the New York Rangers are out there shopping Chris Kreider or any of the other contract players with years left, their so-called ‘core players’ or guys that have been core players.

“They get phone calls, and someone will say, ‘What about Mika Zibanejad? Any chance…’

“‘No.’

“Unless there was a ridiculous offer, but nobody is anticipating that.

“But Kreider is an interesting one because he’s having such a good year. On pace for 35-36 goals, big body, unbelievable skater, still a year left on his deal. But in order for the Rangers to even contemplate giving up a guy like Kreider, who’s so important to what they’re doing here now, they’d have to get a foundational building block young player that’s very close to playing in the National Hockey League, or already just arrived there. They’re not going to trade him for just future considerations - a draft pick and some fair-to-middling prospect.

“So it would need to be a high price for Kreider coming back the other way.”

McKenzie: I don’t believe Rangers are shopping Kreider

The Rangers aren't saying "no" to a Kreider deal. He has one more season remaining on his contract. If the Rangers aren't interested in re-signing him & they do trade him at the deadline, the draft is the next opportunity. Next February's trading deadline becomes the last time to trade him. His value will decrease the longer the Rangers don't trade him. They haven't told teams "no" to any interest and we are planning to re-sign Kreider in July.

 

[darko]

Let’s talk about the 2022 draft instead

I hear 2029 is stacked. Bunch of 8 year olds tearing it up.

 

[haohmaru]

McKenzie: I don’t believe Rangers are shopping Kreider

The Rangers aren't saying "no" to a Kreider deal. He has one more season remaining on his contract. If the Rangers aren't interested in re-signing him & they do trade him at the deadline, the draft is the next opportunity. Next February's trading deadline becomes the last time to trade him. His value will decrease the longer the Rangers don't trade him. They haven't told teams "no" to any interest and we are planning to re-sign Kreider in July.

The Rangers aren't trading Kreider unless what's coming back is stupid-good.

 

[wafflepadsave]

The Rangers aren't trading Kreider unless what's coming back is stupid-good.

We all hope but doubt that kind of return happens.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Nope, just two less eyesores I have to look at.

Who's the next whipping boy(s)? Come on down.

This team really stinks outside of the top line.

 

[Irishguy42]

Who's the next whipping boy(s)? Come on down.

This team really stinks outside of the top line.

I agree.

From Carp's game recap:

2) Filip Chytil scored a power-play goal (assisted by DeAngelo, and by Pavel Buchnevich, who had a pair of assists) to tie the game after Zibanejad was boarded by Charlie McAvoy. Before Chytil, the last Rangers forward not named Zibanejad, Mats Zuccarello, Chris Kreider or Kevin Hayes to score a goal was Chytil five games earlier. Before that it was also Chytil.

Once Hayes and Zucc are gone...you got Kreider and ZBad. Sure, Buchnevich or whoever is put up with Kreider and ZBad will score some, but offense is going to start drying up unless other players step up. The only reason the Rangers have been getting points recently is because the top line and Hayes has been absolute fire of late.

 

[RangerBoy]

The Rangers aren't trading Kreider unless what's coming back is stupid-good.

We have heard that before on this board.

The Rangers weren't trading McDonagh unless they got a 1st line forward in return. The Rangers shouldn't trade Zuccarello unless they get back an offer they can't refuse. The Rangers shouldn't trade Hayes unless they get a top winger or RHD back in return.

Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way.

Bob McKenzie

“Hayes and Zuccarello, I think it’s notable to note that today Brian Boyle went for a second-round pick from New Jersey to Nashville. He’s a depth player, but he’s sort of a high-end depth player. I think the New York Rangers believe if they can get a first-round pick and something for Kevin Hayes, that would be fantastic. If they can get a first-round pick or a top prospect - not both, but one of those - for Zuccarello, that would be great too.

“So all of those rentals are most certainly in play and I think they’re more likely than not to be traded. But there’s a lot of competition for the rentals, so we’ll see what the market settles at.”

McKenzie on Rangers’ pending UFA trade assets

The Rangers would be happy with a 1st and something for Hayes which is less than Brooks or what some fans want for Hayes. The same thing with Zuccarello. A 1st or a top prospect. That is less than people expected in return for him.

The Rangers would take the Stastny return for Hayes. 1st round pick and Erik Foley which becomes a 4th if the Blues don't sign the player.



Kreider has one year remaining on his contract. His value decreases everyday he gets closer to free agency. The Rangers have a decision to make. They can pay Kreider $7M per for 5-6 seasons or they can trade him. If they trade him at the 2020 deadline, they are looking at a 1st and something for him. That's the reality of the situation. Maybe they should consider putting him into a deal before the 25th and get more than a 1st and something else.

 

[Vitto79]

TV. He said the Rangers are looking for a 1st and a good prospect for Hayes, and a 1st or a good prospect for Zuccarello, especially now since he’s playing better:

My buddy says Zuc wine even get a 3rd lol

I’m betting it’s Atleast a 2nd plus

 

[Ghost of jas]

My buddy says Zuc wine even get a 3rd lol

I’m betting it’s Atleast a 2nd plus

Your buddy is more than likely wrong.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

It will be a 2nd+ unless guys get pulled off the market or someone gets desperate.

 

[Ghost of jas]

It will be a 2nd+ unless guys get pulled off the market or someone gets desperate.

It will be a step up from the Grabner deal...a 1st and a Rykov-level prospect or a 2nd and a better prospect.

 

[RangerBoy]

This was mentioned earlier here

Smith, who has two years remaining on his contract at an annual $4.35 million cap hit, could be dealt if the Blueshirts are willing to assume up to 50 percent of his contract.

https://nypost.com/2019/02/06/rangers-trade-cody-mcleod-to-predators/

Why use a salary retention on Smith? What are the Rangers getting back for Smith at 50%?

The Rangers retained $900K for Spooner until 2019-20. They are allowed three salary retentions for players that the club had traded to the clubs. Why waste one of the remaining two on Smith? The Rangers might have to retain money on Hayes & Zuccarello until the end of this season. Two right there.

Retain money to trade Shattenkirk sometime next season with the Rangers getting back a #1 in the deal.

Buying Smith out is a better option than retaining 50%. If the Rangers really want him out of the organization completely so he doesn't stop the gloves with his Hartford teammates in the AHL.

 

[Off Sides]

We have heard that before on this board.

The Rangers weren't trading McDonagh unless they got a 1st line forward in return. The Rangers shouldn't trade Zuccarello unless they get back an offer they can't refuse. The Rangers shouldn't trade Hayes unless they get a top winger or RHD back in return.

Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way.

Bob McKenzie



McKenzie on Rangers’ pending UFA trade assets

The Rangers would be happy with a 1st and something for Hayes which is less than Brooks or what some fans want for Hayes. The same thing with Zuccarello. A 1st or a top prospect. That is less than people expected in return for him.

The Rangers would take the Stastny return for Hayes. 1st round pick and Erik Foley which becomes a 4th if the Blues don't sign the player.



Kreider has one year remaining on his contract. His value decreases everyday he gets closer to free agency. The Rangers have a decision to make. They can pay Kreider $7M per for 5-6 seasons or they can trade him. If they trade him at the 2020 deadline, they are looking at a 1st and something for him. That's the reality of the situation. Maybe they should consider putting him into a deal before the 25th and get more than a 1st and something else.

I agree, I'm not sure I understand the Rangers plan with Kreider.

At the draft he is going to be worth which pick when draft picks are worth their most?

If they hold on to him until next deadline, and he has not yet signed an extension, he is going to have a ton of leverage to pretty much ask for whatever he could get as a UFA, maybe even ask for more than that.

I'm thinking the Rangers putting themselves in that position is shortsighted.

I mean what if he asks for 9M, 7 years, full NMC, are they going to sign it given their other option is a 1st and something?

The only way in my mind holding on to Kreider makes sense is if they've already worked out some extension, or his current return value is already pretty close to only a 1st and something.

 

[Leetch3]

unless you are planning to make some huge free agent signings it makes no sense to buy anyone out and double the length of time there is a cap hit. just let the contracts run out

 

[LaffyTaffy]

I'm pretty sure what @BBKers said earlier will stand true, once McQuaid is gone, Sather will want to keep some grit around and will vouch for Smith to stay here. It isn't like we would be passing up anything of significant value for him by not trading him. I think if we trade him it will be at the 2021 deadline, given Seattle doesn't claim him, which they wont.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Why are we retaining or buying out Smith? We suck - the defense is horrible. He's not keeping anyone out that should be playing. He's not as bad as people make him out to be, especially looking at the others on defense.

Why bother if this rebuild will last a few years. Doesn't make any sense to go out of your way to dump him.

 

[Mac n Gs]

McKenzie’s wording makes it seem like Gorton would want a redux of Brassard for Zibanejad with Kreider. I’d want something more tangible than a prospect, and ideally it’s a kid playing well in professional hockey in some capacity.

Rangers added ~6 years in that deal, which meand they could be looking for someone that’s from the 2013-15 drafts. Plenty of names from those first rounders are guys on the cusp of breaking out and solidifying themselves for the next 6-8 years.

I’d hate to deal Kreids, and I think he’d be a great piece to augment this next core of Rangers. However, if Gorton can get that type of value again, it only serves as an extension of this next window, while also minimizing risk of a bigger contract with depreciating value. I don’t think Kreids will slow down, but the risk is there.

The one thing that’s woefully apparent is that we need to solidify their secondary scoring moving forward.

 

[I Eat Crow]

This was mentioned earlier here



https://nypost.com/2019/02/06/rangers-trade-cody-mcleod-to-predators/

Why use a salary retention on Smith? What are the Rangers getting back for Smith at 50%?

The Rangers retained $900K for Spooner until 2019-20. They are allowed three salary retentions for players that the club had traded to the clubs. Why waste one of the remaining two on Smith? The Rangers might have to retain money on Hayes & Zuccarello until the end of this season. Two right there.

Retain money to trade Shattenkirk sometime next season with the Rangers getting back a #1 in the deal.

Buying Smith out is a better option than retaining 50%. If the Rangers really want him out of the organization completely so he doesn't stop the gloves with his Hartford teammates in the AHL.

View attachment 183897

What does a Smith buyout look like?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

McKenzie’s wording makes it seem like Gorton would want a redux of Brassard for Zibanejad with Kreider. I’d want something more tangible than a prospect, and ideally it’s a kid playing well in professional hockey in some capacity.

Rangers added ~6 years in that deal, which meand they could be looking for someone that’s from the 2013-15 drafts. Plenty of names from those first rounders are guys on the cusp of breaking out and solidifying themselves for the next 6-8 years.

I’d hate to deal Kreids, and I think he’d be a great piece to augment this next core of Rangers. However, if Gorton can get that type of value again, it only serves as an extension of this next window, while also minimizing risk of a bigger contract with depreciating value. I don’t think Kreids will slow down, but the risk is there.

The one thing that’s woefully apparent is that we need to solidify their secondary scoring moving forward.

Fiala

 

[Irishguy42]

What does a Smith buyout look like?

It's in the post you quoted

 

[Beer League Sniper]

We have heard that before on this board.

The Rangers weren't trading McDonagh unless they got a 1st line forward in return. The Rangers shouldn't trade Zuccarello unless they get back an offer they can't refuse. The Rangers shouldn't trade Hayes unless they get a top winger or RHD back in return.

Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way.

Bob McKenzie



McKenzie on Rangers’ pending UFA trade assets

The Rangers would be happy with a 1st and something for Hayes which is less than Brooks or what some fans want for Hayes. The same thing with Zuccarello. A 1st or a top prospect. That is less than people expected in return for him.

The Rangers would take the Stastny return for Hayes. 1st round pick and Erik Foley which becomes a 4th if the Blues don't sign the player.



Kreider has one year remaining on his contract. His value decreases everyday he gets closer to free agency. The Rangers have a decision to make. They can pay Kreider $7M per for 5-6 seasons or they can trade him. If they trade him at the 2020 deadline, they are looking at a 1st and something for him. That's the reality of the situation. Maybe they should consider putting him into a deal before the 25th and get more than a 1st and something else.

I'd pay the man, unless some team blows us out of the water with a trade offer. Sounds like Gorton has the same mindset. Not just about Kreider, but about Zibanejad as well.

You need good players leading your rebuild. Players who are good on the ice, as well as off.

 

[Ghost of jas]

McKenzie’s wording makes it seem like Gorton would want a redux of Brassard for Zibanejad with Kreider. I’d want something more tangible than a prospect, and ideally it’s a kid playing well in professional hockey in some capacity.

Rangers added ~6 years in that deal, which meand they could be looking for someone that’s from the 2013-15 drafts. Plenty of names from those first rounders are guys on the cusp of breaking out and solidifying themselves for the next 6-8 years.

I’d hate to deal Kreids, and I think he’d be a great piece to augment this next core of Rangers. However, if Gorton can get that type of value again, it only serves as an extension of this next window, while also minimizing risk of a bigger contract with depreciating value. I don’t think Kreids will slow down, but the risk is there.

The one thing that’s woefully apparent is that we need to solidify their secondary scoring moving forward.

I heard exactly what McKenzie said. I paraphrased it last night. The Rangers aren’t shopping Kreider, but are willing to listen. The cost will be high. Bob also said that Kreider fits in with what the Rangers are building. To be honest, the whole conversation reiterated what we’ve discussed here.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

I used to think the Rangers would do something like Kreider for Debrusk type thing, but I don't think Debrusk will be as good as Kreider. But that is the sort of thing I would look for. Kreider is a hard player to find, will Greenway ever pot 25? Will Debrusk pot 30? The Brass - Zib trade was a matter of great scouting by the Rangers and great timing. It's a once in a blue moon trade. If Gorton does it again just a few years later the guy deserves an award.

 

[Trxjw]

I think Bobby Mac's valuations of Hayes and Zucc are spot on. Basically what some of us have been saying for weeks.

 

[NYR Viper]

This was mentioned earlier here



https://nypost.com/2019/02/06/rangers-trade-cody-mcleod-to-predators/

Why use a salary retention on Smith? What are the Rangers getting back for Smith at 50%?

The Rangers retained $900K for Spooner until 2019-20. They are allowed three salary retentions for players that the club had traded to the clubs. Why waste one of the remaining two on Smith? The Rangers might have to retain money on Hayes & Zuccarello until the end of this season. Two right there.

Retain money to trade Shattenkirk sometime next season with the Rangers getting back a #1 in the deal.

Buying Smith out is a better option than retaining 50%. If the Rangers really want him out of the organization completely so he doesn't stop the gloves with his Hartford teammates in the AHL.

View attachment 183897

Smith is indeed tradeable. I laid out a couple of deals that would make sense financially for the other teams to take on Smith (who hasn't been that bad this year)

I'd retain on Smith to get a deal done. Spooner is only one more season of retention and then it's gone. There are other way to alleviate cap issues in a deal than just retention so if retaining on Smith allows them to open up a spot on defense than it's absolutely worth it