Roster Building Thread: Part VII (2023-24)

[HonestGabe]

If the goal is to develop a 3rd line that plays "heavier" but still can still put up points, I don't see a problem with a line of Vesey - Trocheck - Wheeler.

 

[MrAlmost]

The second weirdest comment Brooks made, after the completely crazy Kreider defense comment, was that Trocheck isn't suited to "third line" play. I don't prescribe to line numbering anymore, but if any of the players on our team were perfectly suited to shutdown center play, its Trocheck.

 

[Fitzy]

Lines should have tactics approaches and identities but I don't think those should necessarily be contingent on where they are on paper.

That said, you could make the case that an 'energy line' is more likely to work well as a 3rd or 4th line because they're playing fewer minutes and so can go out there with a higher motor.

Dryden Hunt for example was much more useful minute to minute playing 9 minutes a game than 14. Just by virtue of his strengths.

We did have one 'shootout' 4th line back in the day of Wolski-Christensen-Zuccarello that I think about sometimes, but that's unusual and not necessarily what you want from guys playing 9 minutes a game.

It's why I don't agree with some of the newer generations saying you should just replace all the role players with AHL top 6 finesse guys like Pajuniemi on the 4th lines and you'd have more success- I don't see it that way.

 

[mrmovies779]

kreider-Tro-Wheeler as your heavy forechecking 3rd line.Will give defensemen nightmares once they get deep inside their zone

 

[nsvoyageurs]

I don't disagree with moving Laf. I do not think is is Goodrow on the other side of the 3rd line though. Come on Brooks. Thats Vesey.

Moving Laf to the RW and if he works there leaves a spot open for Othmann or Cuylle to win. I like that too since I think both can surprise this year.

Obviously, the desire here is to get the most out of Lafreniere, no matter who his linemates are and what position he plays. Hopefully, Laviolette can unlock what Lafreniere has. At least the slate should be clean after the coaching change.

I think he may have to play on the right side because I don't think Kreider/Panarin are not moving. I may be proven otherwise, but unless I see it, I'm skeptical.

 

[NYR Viper]

How many times do we need to re-hash the fact that the Rangers top-9 will see practically the same minutes at 5v5? Call the lines whatever the hell you want, it's about special teams TOI and who gels with who at 5v5...

Lafreniere-Zibanejad-Wheeler
Kreider-Trochek-Kaako
Panarin-Chytil-Vesey/Goodrow
Vesey/Goodrow-Bonino-Pitlick


List the top-9 however the hell you want to, play the hot line an extra 45 seconds a game compared to the other 2 and roll with it.

 

[haohmaru]

"Can't have this guy on the third line in a list format because he doesn't do what I have determined to be third line things" is always my favorite discourse.

Show me a guy that’s scored 84 goals in two years that started the following year on the third line for the sake of disappointing draft pick getting more ice time. I’ll wait.

 

[Machinehead]

Show me a guy that’s scored 84 goals in two years that started the following year on the third line for the sake of disappointing draft pick getting more ice time. I’ll wait.

But it doesn't matter what the "third" line is.

The fourth line plays demonstrably less on every team, that's a fact. Beyond that, ranking the other three lines as a hierarchy very rarely holds water. The Rangers, in particular, like to spread time 5v5.

With special teams play, Kreider will almost definitely be one of our top five most used forwards regardless of where he's listed in a tweet.

The point is, we can't possibly have all of Kreider, Lafreniere, Kakko, Wheeler, Panarin, Zibanejad, Chytil, and Trocheck in what Brooks deems to be "the top six" (because that's eight players!!) and him whining about it is pointless.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Show me a guy that’s scored 84 goals in two years that started the following year on the third line for the sake of disappointing draft pick getting more ice time. I’ll wait.

Sure.
But something something definition of insanity is repeating the same thing without changes and expecting a different outcome.

The rangers know exactly what to expect from Mika/Panarin/Kreider/trocheck.
It’s Chytil /Kakko/Laf who have the ability to go beyond what they’ve done. And if they don’t we’re not a cup contender. If they do, we are.

 

[NYR Viper]

But it doesn't matter what the "third" line is.

The fourth line plays demonstrably less on every team, that's a fact. Beyond that, ranking the other three lines as a hierarchy very rarely holds water. The Rangers, in particular, like to spread time 5v5.

With special teams play, Kreider will almost definitely be one of our top five most used forwards regardless of where he's listed in a tweet.

The point is, we can't possibly have all of Kreider, Lafreniere, Kakko, Wheeler, Panarin, Zibanejad, Chytil, and Trocheck in what Brooks deems to be "the top six" (because that's eight players!!) and him whining about it is pointless.

The only thing that makes sense is better distribution of special teams time. Moving Trochek off PP1, to PP2 and moving one of the kids up there while giving Kaako PK time is a good start.

 

[haohmaru]

The point is, we can't possibly have all of Kreider, Lafreniere, Kakko, Wheeler, Panarin, Zibanejad, Chytil, and Trocheck in what Brooks deems to be "the top six" (because that's eight players!!) and him whining about it is pointless.

I suppose - but I don't think this is line delegation team a la Vegas. The top six, below, should get more minutes than line 3.

My lines actually have Lafreniere and Kreider both in the "top six"

Kreider - Zib - Kakko
Panarin - Cytil - LaF
XYZ - Trocheck - Wheeler

That's what I'd run with. Kreider needs to be out there with Zibanejad. Period.

Sure.
But something something definition of insanity is repeating the same thing without changes and expecting a different outcome.

The rangers know exactly what to expect from Mika/Panarin/Kreider/trocheck.
It’s Chytil /Kakko/Laf who have the ability to go beyond what they’ve done. And if they don’t we’re not a cup contender. If they do, we are.

See above

 

[mas0764]

kreider-Tro-Wheeler as your heavy forechecking 3rd line.Will give defensemen nightmares once they get deep inside their zone

Anyone who is whiny about Kreider being demoted can pretend it's a second line.

Show me a guy that’s scored 84 goals in two years that started the following year on the third line for the sake of disappointing draft pick getting more ice time. I’ll wait.

Kreider's on the first line, it's just the same line that Trocheck and Vesey are on.

 

[Daves a mess]

Why not let training camp play out before people are soap boxing " should be" lines?

 

[mas0764]

I suppose - but I don't think this is line delegation team a la Vegas. The top six, below, should get more minutes than line 3.

My lines actually have Lafreniere and Kreider both in the "top six"

Kreider - Zib - Kakko
Panarin - Cytil - LaF
XYZ - Trocheck - Wheeler

That's what I'd run with. Kreider needs to be out there with Zibanejad. Period.



See above

Wheeler had 55 points last year, Lafreniere only 39.

Why are you ok with Lafreniere supplanting Wheeler but not Kreider?

That's a hypothetical question because I know the answer.

 

[haohmaru]

Wheeler had 55 points last year, Lafreniere only 39.

Why are you ok with Lafreniere supplanting Wheeler but not Kreider?

That's a hypothetical question because I know the answer.

Kreider has 88 goals in the last two years. Wheeler has 33.
Kreider is 32. Wheeler is 37.
One is great defensively and compliments Mika. One doesn't.
One still has great foot speed. One doesn't.

One is not like the other.

Kreider's on the first line, it's just the same line that Trocheck and Vesey are on.

No. That's just f***ing terrible. No other way to put it.

 

[zlev]

No. That's just f***ing terrible. No other way to put it.

that'd be our only line above 50% CF though

 

[kovazub94]

I know he was playing hurt but I wasn't all that impressed with Kane. With Panarin this time around the both of them were a shitshow. More interested in passing the puck around the perimeter and not so interested in getting pucks to the net. I was more impressed with Tarasenko. If the Rangers were to try to get Kane back there won't be a lot of cap $'s available. That's the other thing of what he would accept and I wouldn't necessarily put him on a line with Artemi.

I liked what we did for the '22 playoffs at the deadline more than I liked what we did last year. Drury astutely brought in good players who fit into roles. Copp was an all position Swiss Army knife who could take draws, play power play and penalty kill minutes and shuffle around the lineup. What I liked most about Vatrano is he played a fairly hard forecheck and he doesn't pass up shots by looking for the extra pass and he gets the puck to the net. Motte is just a good 4th liner---engergetic, very good penalty killer. Last year was more like trying to put together an all star team at the trade deadline.

I wouldn't be as critical of Drury across TDL moves as a whole. Tarasenko and Mikkola move addressed two needs in one swoop and the cost in isolation was reasonable. Motte was that too (even considering losing Gauthier who wouldn't have a spot anyway).

It really was just bringing Kane that tainted TDL moves negatively.

 

[RGY]

Surprised no one has mentioned Arthur’s Staples prediction that Kane will re-sign in November

 

[haohmaru]

that'd be our only line above 50% CF though

Yeah, true. But taking the guy who's 7th in goals scored in the NHL in the last two years and putting him on a line with a downtrending 37 year old and a borderline 2C doesn't seem to be terribly smart.

Surprised no one has mentioned Arthur’s Staples prediction that Kane will re-sign in November

Who?

 

[IDvsEGO]

Surprised no one has mentioned Arthur’s Staples prediction that Kane will re-sign in November

Because staple is wrong more often than the weatherman in the 80s

 

[Machinehead]

I suppose - but I don't think this is line delegation team a la Vegas. The top six, below, should get more minutes than line 3.

My lines actually have Lafreniere and Kreider both in the "top six"

Kreider - Zib - Kakko
Panarin - Cytil - LaF
XYZ - Trocheck - Wheeler

That's what I'd run with. Kreider needs to be out there with Zibanejad. Period.



See above

I don't know if going out of our way to play Trocheck less is wise. He's arguably our third-most effective 5v5 player behind Kreider and Panarin.

 

[haohmaru]

I don't know if going out of our way to play Trocheck less is wise. He's arguably our third-most effective 5v5 player behind Kreider and Panarin.

I guess it's more along the lines of Chytil and Laf, in particular, have to take that next step for this team to be successful. If Chytil can't wear those pants, than Trocheck moves up. I hear you, though.

 

[Machinehead]

I guess it's more along the lines of Chytil and Laf, in particular, have to take that next step for this team to be successful. If Chytil can't wear those pants, than Trocheck moves up. I hear you, though.

I would definitely like to see Chytil play more taking a bit from Zibanejad and a bit from Trocheck. We really run those guys into the ground.

Especially on the PK. I wouldn't PK Zibanejad at all.

 

[haohmaru]

Especially on the PK. I wouldn't PK Zibanejad at all.

With you on that.

 

[will1066]

The organization has never entrusted Chytil to be the 2C. It's why Trocheck exists after Strome left, when they could have saved some money and cap space. I don't think the Rangers will ever put their trust in Fil.

Spare me a Kane re-signing. I've already learned my lesson to trust after all the hype of the first time, with the teaser video of his nameplate being sewn on and the verbal fellatio that The Legend is coming.