Roster Building Thread IV (2019/2020)

[nyr2k2]

It's really just the only logic for the point. LOL. Whether the point itself is that profound or even worthwhile to prove, well I've lost track of that.

"During their time with us last year, Zuccarello and and Hayes produced 79 points. In about the same timeframe, Panarin himself produced 70 points. He can largely replace their production on his own."

"Last year, Zuccarello and Hayes combined for a total of 94 points. Panarin by himself recorded 87. Therefore, it's safe to say Panarin alone could come close to replacing their production."

"For their careers, Zuccarello and Hayes average about 105 combined points/82, whereas by himself Panarin averages 82 points per 82. Panarin can singlehandedly provide 80% of the production of Zuccarello and Hayes."

If I've misunderstood your point, and you are in fact arguing that Panarin will provide MORE production for the team than Zuccarello and Hayes combined, then I would disagree.

 

[Rongomania]

Lol, I was going to post that 50 games from Lundqvist should be cut down to about 46 this season, leaving about 36 for Georgiev (mostly) and Shesterkin. This would be my idea of transformation to 1A/1B split, followed by 46/36 in 2020-2021 where Lundqvist would become 1B. Your 50 over two years (however you split) making Lundqvist a backup goaltender right away is completely unrealistic.

Perfect and I'm sure almost 40 year old Lundqvist understands this.

 

[Ola]

Here is the long paragraph on Lundqvist.

The Rangers have Henrik under contract for this season and next. I hate to start trouble again but the Rangers have an issue with Lundqvist. What do they do with him? You want to treat him with respect because he has been such an important player to the franchise but his best days are long behind him. You don’t want to disrespect him but the Rangers do have a franchise to operate.

All fair questions.

From my POV, we still need a vet keeper and as far as we can tell Hank is as good leader in the room as anyone. Nobody starts off-season training earlier than him, is more focused and so forth.

Hank can also probably not be traded. It would surprise me if he could be moved. I would like Hank on my team for a PO series as much as any other goalie basically. But does he have a full regular season and 4 PO series in him? Besides, the contenders are sat in net. Nobody have cap space. Don’t think we can use him as a trade chip and win assets.

That just settles it for this season, more or less a no-brainer to keep him around.

But — next year can be different. Is he still a top 2 goalie for us? If not I think he will retire, go on LTIR or something. A buy-out saves us 3m next season and cost us 1.5m the year after.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I really don’t want to spend a whole lot of time arguing with you about your personal definition of tough, but the one you’re giving here is kind of all over the place. Plus, it’s not borne out by facts. The Blues do hit as a team. So do the Rangers. The Rangers happened to hit a whole lot more, however, so I’m not sure where this “team like the Blues leaning on us” narrative comes from. Forget the fact that the Rangers only play the Blues once or twice a season. The Rangers were 5th *fifth* in team hits last season. A heavy team like the Blues? 24th. We had about 1000 more hits as a team than the Blues.

Ok, next you talk about a “deterrent”. Ok. Who was the “deterrent” for the Blues last season? They didn’t have one, and despite being one of the fewest hitting teams in the league they still won the Cup. Chris Thorburn? Suited up for a single game. Bortuzzo? Played in about 3/4 regular season games and PO games. Was their PIM leader with 30 *thirty* PIM in the POs. Not a very heavy team. We need to check some of our assumptions here.

Now the Rangers- we had 3 players in the top 30 most penalized. In the league. It didn’t win us many games.

I feel like I'm talking another language than you because you keep putting words in my mouth that I never said. The Blues are a heavy team, never said they were a fighting team. We are not a heavy team....we are now a young team with more skill than grit. When you are constructed like that you need some sort of deterrent to keep heavy teams from running around hitting our star players and that's where someone who will drop the gloves comes in. Namestnicov or Fast buzzing around bumping people isnt going to do anything. I'd gladly go into a corner with Namestnicov, I would not say the same about Maroon, O'Reilly, Paranko, Bortuzzo, Blais, Edmundson , Schenn etc etc. I cant explain it any more easily than that.

 

[kovazub94]

All fair questions.

From my POV, we still need a vet keeper and as far as we can tell Hank is as good leader in the room as anyone. Nobody starts off-season training earlier than him, is more focused and so forth.

Hank can also probably not be traded. It would surprise me if he could be moved. I would like Hank on my team for a PO series as much as any other goalie basically. But does he have a full regular season and 4 PO series in him? Besides, the contenders are sat in net. Nobody have cap space. Don’t think we can use him as a trade chip and win assets.

That just settles it for this season, more or less a no-brainer to keep him around.

But — next year can be different. Is he still a top 2 goalie for us? If not I think he will retire, go on LTIR or something. A buy-out saves us 3m next season and cost us 1.5m the year after.

Being set in goal in September is not the same as being set at TDL. I don’t expect Lundqvist going anywhere this season but I’d handicap it at about 50/50 for the 2020-2021.

 

[GAGLine]

Neither Shesty nor Georgy haven't proven enough to be starting goalies in the NHL. When that happens and they need playing time over Lundqvist, then we'll deal with it.

Georgiev outplayed Hank in the 2nd half last year, and the only way we are going to determine if they are starting goalies in the NHL is if they play NHL games.

 

[Avery16]

I'd gladly go into a corner with Namestnicov

My moneys on namestnikov

 

[Raspewtin]

i’m not worried about the Rangers top 6 especially if they still have Kreider.

i’m worried about the bottom 6. you absolutely need big steps forward from more or less an entire line for the bottom 6 to even be NHL caliber

 

[Avery16]

i’m not worried about the Rangers top 6 especially if they still have Kreider.

i’m worried about the bottom 6. you absolutely need big steps forward from more or less an entire line for the bottom 6 to even be NHL caliber

Huh? Our bottom six is likely going to be
Howden
Namestnikov
Strome
Fast
Lemieux
and one of Kravtsov and Kakko, with Andersson and McKegg pushing in, maybe Smith. How is that not NHL caliber? Most of those players were middle-six last season.

 

[Irishguy42]

 

[RangersFan1994]

Just made a thread for this.

 

[Kupo]

Georgiev outplayed Hank in the 2nd half last year, and the only way we are going to determine if they are starting goalies in the NHL is if they play NHL games.

If Georgiev continues playing well he’ll continue getting more games.

Shesty will start in Hartford and we’ll go from there.

I completely understand both kids need an opportunity to play. Playing well will ultimately force Quinn/Gortons hand. Lundqvist is still here and has mad it clear he doesn’t want to play elsewhere. He has a NMC.

We don’t have many options here so I’m not sure what’s left to discuss that hasn’t been dissected to death already.

 

[Avery16]

Camp needs goaltenders. Brassard probably hoping to lock down the ECHL gig.

 

[Blue Blooded]

Georgiev outplayed Hank in the 2nd half last year, and the only way we are going to determine if they are starting goalies in the NHL is if they play NHL games.

If Georgiev continues playing well he’ll continue getting more games.

Shesty will start in Hartford and we’ll go from there.

I completely understand both kids need an opportunity to play. Playing well will ultimately force Quinn/Gortons hand. Lundqvist is still here and has mad it clear he doesn’t want to play elsewhere. He has a NMC.

We don’t have many options here so I’m not sure what’s left to discuss that hasn’t been dissected to death already.

If you put stock into advanced statistics for goalies, Georgiev was the 6th best goalie in both GSAA and dSv% last year.

Glossary
dSv%: Difference between actual and expected save percentage based on the shots faced.
GSAA: Goals saved above average. How many goals above expectation the goaltender has saved during the course of his season, basically prorates the dSv% based on the number of shots faced.

 

[Kupo]

If you put stock into advanced statistics for goalies, Georgiev was the 6th best goalie in both GSAA and dSv% last year.

View attachment 252663

Glossary
dSv%: Difference between actual and expected save percentage based on the shots faced.
GSAA: Goals saved above average. How many goals above expectation the goaltender has saved during the course of his season, basically prorates the dSv% based on the number of shots faced.

33 games isn’t a very big sample size. He’s another young guy coming in this season trying to make a name for himself.

I’m hoping he kills it.

 

[TheDirtyH]

"During their time with us last year, Zuccarello and and Hayes produced 79 points. In about the same timeframe, Panarin himself produced 70 points. He can largely replace their production on his own."

"Last year, Zuccarello and Hayes combined for a total of 94 points. Panarin by himself recorded 87. Therefore, it's safe to say Panarin alone could come close to replacing their production."

"For their careers, Zuccarello and Hayes average about 105 combined points/82, whereas by himself Panarin averages 82 points per 82. Panarin can singlehandedly provide 80% of the production of Zuccarello and Hayes."

If I've misunderstood your point, and you are in fact arguing that Panarin will provide MORE production for the team than Zuccarello and Hayes combined, then I would disagree.

It's really beating a dead horse here but yes, everything you just put in quotes is true, making different statements than the one I was making. It's not that Panarin could be reasonably projected to provide more production than those two combined, it's that Panarin could be reasonably projected to provide more production over the course of this season (a full season played with the Rangers) than Zuccarello and Hayes combined to produce for the Rangers last season. It is reasonable to project that Panarin could replace the offence that we got and are reflected in the end of the year raw goal totals that our team scored last season. Whether this is complicated by Kreider's pending departure, or injuries, or what have you — ie. whether or not our goals total will be higher than last year or whether we are a better offensive team than last year — is another set of issues. I was making a very basic point about this season vs. last season. Not a comment on comparing players. Not a comment on whether we would've finished higher in the standings or with more goals scored last year without trading Hayes and Zuccarello.

 

[MrPodz]

If youre doing the whole hayes and zucc vs panarin, its not a good way of thinking. First off, zibanejad is going to have more points playing with panarin, probably 30 to 40 goals (i dont want to exaggerate). Next kakko should net around 40-50 points. Panarin himself has better forwards to work with (hes in his prime and as good as dubois is, zbad is currently better). The defense as a whole will be fine provided deangelo just takes his deal. In net, georgiev will probably split sparts with hank until one beats the other as the starter. Kravstov is better than vesey, chytil is a year older eith a full sesson under his belt. Guys cmon, we will be a better team this season. Id put us in the wildcard spot or at least 14th worst team in the nhl. We now have a 1rd, a star player, an elite 1c, an elite winger who broke records and won everything, a dazzler eith the puck in kravstov. My only concern is not being able to watch all the games bc of college.

 

[Vitto79]

Barbashev didn’t get a lot so Lemieux should’ve get less

 

[LaffyTaffy]

Barbashev didn’t get a lot so Lemieux should’ve get less

I came for this breakthrough analysis lol!

 

[Machinehead]

Huh? Our bottom six is likely going to be
Howden
Namestnikov
Strome
Fast
Lemieux
and one of Kravtsov and Kakko, with Andersson and McKegg pushing in, maybe Smith. How is that not NHL caliber? Most of those players were middle-six last season.

Strome sucks, Namestnikov kinda sucks, Lemieux is just ok, and Howden was very far from an NHL player last year.

And if Chytil doesn't take a huge stride forward, which is exactly what Rasp said, Strome isn't even in there because he'll be our 2C. Which leaves us with a still pretty bad Filip Chytil in the bottom six.

Not to mention this team is putting absolute trash on the ice if there's literally one injury. (I'm looking at McKegg and, right now, Andersson, it needs to be said)

Not a whole lot needs to go wrong for it to be the worst bottom six in the NHL.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Rangers

Panarin Zibanejead Kakko
Kreider Chytil Buchnevich
Strome Howden Kravtsov
Lemieux Andersson Fast

Extra: McKegg O'Regan
Traded: Namestikov for a draft pick

Skjei Trouba
Staal DeAngelo
Smith Fox

One of
Hajek
Lindgren
Rykov
Reunanen
Steals a job from Smith or Staal and if Smith goes to the AHL, a job is up for grabs

Lundqvist
Georgiev

Shestyorkin in AHL

 

[Lone Ranger]

The team in front of him has been part of the problem. Anyone expecting Lundqvist to have numbers anywhere near his career-level after the dumpster-fire team D over the past few seasons really has to lower their expectations.

Lundqvist isn't blame-free, either, but I'd like to see his performance(s) without Staal playing top 4 minutes for 82 games.

What do you do with him? Let him finish his career here. It's likely the Rangers aren't making the playoffs this year and certainly not competing for a Cup either unless every single thing that can go right goes right.

Wouldn't that argument hold more water if his backup didn't put up better numbers playing in front of the same team?

 

[nyr2k2]

Wouldn't that argument hold more water if his backup didn't put up better numbers playing in front of the same team?

Well it's not to say that Lundqvist is even better than Georgiev, at this point. But playing behind our defense, no one will have good numbers--even Georgiev, who looked phenomenal at times, had what, average or slightly below-average numbers?

Also, the numbers can be somewhat deceiving. Georgiev got absolutely bombed in Hartford with their trash fire defense, and was outplayed by every other goalie down there: Mazanec, Tokarski, Halverson, and Huska. He's better than any of those guys, but playing behind that defense, any type of statistical anomaly is possible.

I think Lundqvist, playing 50 games behind a league-average defense, would give you average or better results. He still showed flashes last year that he can play at a high level, but over the course of the year I think it all just wore him down. That said, Georgiev may be a better player at this point; he has definitely made the case for an expanded role.

 

[hi]

Binnington hasn't proven enough to be a starting goalie in the NHL. When that happens and he needs playing time over Allen, then we'll deal with it.

- Blues fans September 2018

 

[Vitto79]

Strome sucks, Namestnikov kinda sucks, Lemieux is just ok, and Howden was very far from an NHL player last year.

And if Chytil doesn't take a huge stride forward, which is exactly what Rasp said, Strome isn't even in there because he'll be our 2C. Which leaves us with a still pretty bad Filip Chytil in the bottom six.

Not to mention this team is putting absolute trash on the ice if there's literally one injury. (I'm looking at McKegg and, right now, Andersson, it needs to be said)

Not a whole lot needs to go wrong for it to be the worst bottom six in the NHL.

They are building so oh well let the kids play and have some confidence in a few Former 1st round guys

Fast , Namestnikov , Strome are just fine bottom 6 players also