Roster Building Thread IV (2019/2020)

[egelband]

To be honest, it’s hard to imagine a player that we could know — less — about in this regard.

Like we know that the guy is from Boston. OTOH some Boston kids close to Kreider haven’t been super keen on going to play there. So who knows.

Some US players don’t want to play in Canada, but Kreider OTOH isn’t your normal dude and in some senses gives the impression that you can’t get too much of the game.

I don’t know if anyone got any actual reports on this topic?

I could see Kreider happy to play in a smaller city. But Edmonton might be a stretch. I'd bet it's a fine place to live (though I have friend from Edmonton who doesn't have good things to say about it) but that organization has been so bad for so long. And I don't know that Ken Holland is the dynamic force who's going to turn it around. At least not anytime soon.

 

[egelband]

On the lines, Quinn seems to be a bit of a weather vane in relation to the media meaning that he will turn in whatever the direction the wind blows. Initially I think it’s almost a guarantee that he will play Panarin with Zibanejad.

And sure, it can work and they can form a dominant line.

But I wouldn’t bank on it. The NHL isn’t an easy league. If anything, it’s easy to play against a skilled line that aren’t in perfect sync since they will try to be top fancy and you can just wait for it to expose itself and then set off in the other direction.

Zibanejad isn’t a super low maintenance player. I think that the support we provided for him last season was a bit underrated. Zibanejad is a big guy who takes a little time to get going. We did a great job at keeping the puck within the team so that he could build up that speed and then we “found him” at the right time.

Panarin is on the other side a player who is so good with the puck and always will buy his line time with it and create offense.

So sure they will compliment each other really well in some senses, but on the other hand the total pay-off could be higher if you split them because I am sure a Kreider-Ziba-Buch/Kravy/Kakko line could be fairly good without Panarin — it was last season! — while a line with say Chytil-Buch/Kravy/Kakko on it could be 10x as good with Panarin on the left instead of anyone of the other suspects.

But I wouldn’t bet on DQ trying to be cute with it from the get go...

I know Zibanejad is terrific at zone entry. My impression of Panarin is that he likes to get the puck after the zone entry. Which would make them a great match. But maybe I'm wrong about Panarin. I haven't seen him game-in-and-game-out.

 

[RangerBoy]

A synopsis of the article. 84.9 points for the Rangers. 6th overall. Panarin is good for 3.3 wins. Kakko will get 51 points. 1.4 wins.

It will take 100 points to make the playoffs in the East. The Rangers had 78 last season. Fewest ROW in the NHL.

The Rangers youth and inexperience at center behind Zibanejad is the biggest issue upfront. They won’t get much scoring from their bottom six. Too much youth.

Staal will get top 4 minutes and he stinks. ADA is a bad defender. He can move the puck and skate. He drives offense. That will some D pair.

A lot of youth on the third pair with Hajek-Fox. Smith is awful.

Lundqvist is a backup level goalie. Georgiev has the potential to be a legit starting NHL goaltender.

 

[iamitter]

For those wondering why we didn't move up more from trouba and panarin and kakko, we lost about 4 wins from zucc and Hayes.

 

[leetch99]

I really don’t want to spend a whole lot of time arguing with you about your personal definition of tough, but the one you’re giving here is kind of all over the place. Plus, it’s not borne out by facts. The Blues do hit as a team. So do the Rangers. The Rangers happened to hit a whole lot more, however, so I’m not sure where this “team like the Blues leaning on us” narrative comes from. Forget the fact that the Rangers only play the Blues once or twice a season. The Rangers were 5th *fifth* in team hits last season. A heavy team like the Blues? 24th. We had about 1000 more hits as a team than the Blues.

Ok, next you talk about a “deterrent”. Ok. Who was the “deterrent” for the Blues last season? They didn’t have one, and despite being one of the fewest hitting teams in the league they still won the Cup. Chris Thorburn? Suited up for a single game. Bortuzzo? Played in about 3/4 regular season games and PO games. Was their PIM leader with 30 *thirty* PIM in the POs. Not a very heavy team. We need to check some of our assumptions here.

Now the Rangers- we had 3 players in the top 30 most penalized. In the league. It didn’t win us many games.

Bruins also ran Andersson all around the ice in our last game against them for not much reason other than to intimidate especially since they knew McQuaid was not playing...a much different scenario then the game previous to that when Chytil flattened /concussed Rask, albeit not his fault, as if it would have made any difference...goalie gets run over...Bruins always react . Nobody even looked sideways at him since they KNEW McQuaid was in THAT game and on the ice during that play and that he would also REACT . When Andersson had the corner incident versus Bergeron ...which was virtually nothing versus the goalie hit....they chased him all over the ice and all around the parking lot and halfway back to NYC... October 27...I want to see that stuff addressed by this team...a message needs to be sent that that kind of stuff won't happen again to one of our kids .

 

[NYRFAN218]

A synopsis of the article. 84.9 points for the Rangers. 6th overall. Panarin is good for 3.3 wins. Kakko will get 51 points. 1.4 wins.

It will take 100 points to make the playoffs in the East. The Rangers had 78 last season. Fewest ROW in the NHL.

The Rangers youth and inexperience at center behind Zibanejad is the biggest issue upfront. They won’t get much scoring from their bottom six. Too much youth.

Staal will get top 4 minutes and he stinks. ADA is a bad defender. He can move the puck and skate. He drives offense. That will some D pair.

A lot of youth on the third pair with Hajek-Fox. Smith is awful.

Lundqvist is a backup level goalie. Georgiev has the potential to be a legit starting NHL goaltender.

Basically sums up what we've all been saying here for the most part. He notes that improvement can be expected from Howden, Andersson, and Chytil relative to what the model projects but that it would take 2 of the 3 to make significant jumps to get them into playoff talk.

 

[mas0764]

26, 28, and 35 points for Pionk, Shattenkirk, and Vesey respectively. I'm pretty sure our incoming rookies (and a guy like Panarin) will be able to offset just about anything we lost from those 3. Panarin might be able to do it himself.

Figure Kakko is good for ~30 points. Krav for ~30. ADA/Fox for ~30 even if you want to split that up between the two of them.

Kakko should be good for way more than 30 points.

 

[TheDirtyH]

You can't take the totals that those guys produced for us, which is over a partial season, and then use Panarin's full season totals. I understand the point you're trying to make, that Panarin on his own can reproduce a lot of the lost production of Zuccarello and Hayes, but you undermine yourself with the skewed numbers. If you want to make it a fair comparison you'd need to use Panarin's production at the TDL. Like he had 70 points through the end of February--so you should say Hayes and Zuccarello had 79 points for us and in the same time period Panarin had 70 himself.

it's not important but no.. if it's a question of the offense improving from last season, the Rangers numbers at the end of it reflect Hayes and Zucc's departures. Adding their production away from the team or projecting from 60 games of Panarin doesn't make any sense since the actual totals from last year do not include the former and projections wouldn't assume the latter.

It's not my saying that Panarin is twice the scorer of Zucc and Hayes. It's my saying that he can replace the total number of points they scored for us last season, increasing our goal totals therefore. Whether Panarin alone makes our offense better than the Rangers before the deadline? not my point or concern. I'm talking about end of the year, raw totals. Goals scored (and if you want to, standing points, based on that, though idc about that).

but whatever. I've lost why this was even brought up. something about making the playoffs which is not my expectation.

 

[nyr2k2]

it's not important but no.. if it's a question of the offense improving from last season, the Rangers numbers at the end of it reflect Hayes and Zucc's departures. Adding their production away from the team or projecting from 60 games of Panarin doesn't make any sense since the actual totals from last year do not include the former and projections wouldn't assume the latter.

It's not my saying that Panarin is twice the scorer of Zucc and Hayes. It's my saying that he can replace the total number of points they scored for us last season, increasing our goal totals therefore. Whether Panarin alone makes our offense better than the Rangers before the deadline? not my point or concern. I'm talking about end of the year, raw totals. Goals scored (and if you want to, standing points, based on that, though idc about that).

but whatever. I've lost why this was even brought up. something about making the playoffs which is not my expectation.

I know what your point is, you're just using bad logic to prove it. LOL. But anyway, moving on.

 

[Avery16]

Bruins also ran Andersson all around the ice in our last game against them for not much reason other than to intimidate especially since they knew McQuaid was not playing...a much different scenario then the game previous to that when Chytil flattened /concussed Rask, albeit not his fault, as if it would have made any difference...goalie gets run over...Bruins always react . Nobody even looked sideways at him since they KNEW McQuaid was in THAT game and on the ice during that play and that he would also REACT . When Andersson had the corner incident versus Bergeron ...which was virtually nothing versus the goalie hit....they chased him all over the ice and all around the parking lot and halfway back to NYC... October 27...I want to see that stuff addressed by this team...a message needs to be sent that that kind of stuff won't happen again to one of our kids .

Well, the Bruins aren’t the Blues. The Bruins will lean on teams. But the Blues beat the Bruins, and I think Andersson handled himself fine that night.

 

[RangerBoy]

Here is the long paragraph on Lundqvist.

That leaves the goaltending, which might be the team’s biggest strength but not for the reason many would expect. Though Henrik Lundqvist has had an illustrious career as one of the league’s best goalies throughout his Rangers career, his star is fading. At 37, it’s fair to question what he has left as a starter. After putting up an astonishing nine straight seasons of double-digit goals saved above expected numbers (perhaps slightly inflated by rink bias, mind you) from 2007 through 2016, Lundqvist followed that up with two seasons saving just three. Last year was an even steeper drop-off, though, as he allowed 7 1/2 goals more than expected, his first negative season on record, as his .907 save percentage fell below his expected .913. He’s projected to bring backup level value as a result.

The Rangers have Henrik under contract for this season and next. I hate to start trouble again but the Rangers have an issue with Lundqvist. What do they do with him? You want to treat him with respect because he has been such an important player to the franchise but his best days are long behind him. You don’t want to disrespect him but the Rangers do have a franchise to operate.

 

[SA16]

Nobody cares if McQuaid plays. In fact other teams likely want him to play because he’s bad

 

[Fitzy]

Kakko should be good for way more than 30 points.

He should be- but there is no certainty that he doesn't follow, for example, the Barkov curve.

Everyone here has him written in as a Calder finalist. There's just no way to know for sure. He could very feasibly fall down the pecking order with the depth at wing in front of him.

 

[haohmaru]

Here is the long paragraph on Lundqvist.



The Rangers have Henrik under contract for this season and next. I hate to start trouble again but the Rangers have an issue with Lundqvist. What do they do with him? You want to treat him with respect because he has been such an important player to the franchise but his best days are long behind him. You don’t want to disrespect him but the Rangers do have a franchise to operate.

The team in front of him has been part of the problem. Anyone expecting Lundqvist to have numbers anywhere near his career-level after the dumpster-fire team D over the past few seasons really has to lower their expectations.

Lundqvist isn't blame-free, either, but I'd like to see his performance(s) without Staal playing top 4 minutes for 82 games.

What do you do with him? Let him finish his career here. It's likely the Rangers aren't making the playoffs this year and certainly not competing for a Cup either unless every single thing that can go right goes right.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

The Rangers have Henrik under contract for this season and next. I hate to start trouble again but the Rangers have an issue with Lundqvist. What do they do with him? You want to treat him with respect because he has been such an important player to the franchise but his best days are long behind him. You don’t want to disrespect him but the Rangers do have a franchise to operate.

What are you expecting? That we resign him in two years? There is nothing to do, he stays, plays like 50 games these last two seasons and he'll retire or whatever. There is nothing we can do but to sit this one out. Only Hank can make a move (retire, ask for trade).

Buying him out will result in one Panarin in dead capspace (Shat and Hank). Can't do anything but be faithful that the King is still the King somewhat.

 

[Kupo]

I hate to start trouble again but the Rangers have an issue with Lundqvist.

There are no issues here.

You know what the options are. They have been discussed over and over. Lundqvist was once a young man who was taking playing time away from Weekes. He's a professional. He knows how things work.

 

[Kupo]

The team in front of him has been part of the problem. Anyone expecting Lundqvist to have numbers anywhere near his career-level after the dumpster-fire team D over the past few seasons really has to lower their expectations.

Lundqvist isn't blame-free, either, but I'd like to see his performance(s) without Staal playing top 4 minutes for 82 games.

What do you do with him? Let him finish his career here. It's likely the Rangers aren't making the playoffs this year and certainly not competing for a Cup either unless every single thing that can go right goes right.

Lundqvist was a beast in the early part of the year last season. Vintage Lundqvist. Stealing points for a team that was outplayed over and over. Quinn overplayed him. And then our D fell apart completely.

I think he's going to bounce back this year if the team can play a possession type game and our D doesn't suck as much ass as they did last season.

 

[Raspewtin]

Doms season preview is largely nothing we didn’t know but he’s right that to even have a playoff chance we basically need massive steps forward from quite a few players.

 

[GAGLine]

What are you expecting? That we resign him in two years? There is nothing to do, he stays, plays like 50 games these last two seasons and he'll retire or whatever. There is nothing we can do but to sit this one out. Only Hank can make a move (retire, ask for trade).

Buying him out will result in one Panarin in dead capspace (Shat and Hank). Can't do anything but be faithful that the King is still the King somewhat.

There are no issues here.

You know what the options are. They have been discussed over and over. Lundqvist was once a young man who was taking playing time away from Weekes. He's a professional. He knows how things work.

The issue is that we have 2 young goalies who both need to play NHL games. How are we managing that if Hank is playing 50 games each of the next 2 seasons?

 

[haohmaru]

Lundqvist was a beast in the early part of the year last season. Vintage Lundqvist. Stealing points for a team that was outplayed over and over. Quinn overplayed him. And then our D fell apart completely.

I think he's going to bounce back this year if the team can play a possession type game and our D doesn't suck as much ass as they did last season.

Did we fire Lindy Ruff?

 

[kovazub94]

@BBKers made a great post about the goal totals being projected.

If Hayes and Zucc's ~80 points of production are replaced by 80 points from the breadman, and you have a couple of rookies in KK and Krav that give your 30-35 goals combined, the team is going to be fine offensively.

I think the Rangers are as good as how many quality 25 minute a night games Skjei-Trouba gives you, and a handful of steals from the goalie trio.

I still see this team as having a poor PK, no 4th line roles being filled, and one that will make a lot of young player mistakes with intermittent bouts of consistency.

In other words, a team that misses the playoffs in wildly entertaining and at the same time frustrating fashion.

There are a couple of things I think Gorts and Co could have done to upgrade the team, but did not, which will become evident by January if not sooner.

• Kept Ruff- A guy known for the some of the worst defensive structured teams and coaching for the last what? 15 Years?
• Didn't address 4th line options. I get it- hard to do with the cap constraints and the Trouba & Breadman moves are more important, but still... this is a 4th line you are talking about.

I would say with the development of the kids, the Rangers are 1 firing, and 3-4 roster moves away from the playoffs. Which is a very doable thing by the next trade deadline and off-season.

Completely agree with your points about Ruff and PK. I’m less concerned about the 4th line. Also I wish 25 minutes from the top pair of Trouba and Skjei could somehow be transformed into 25 min from Trouba/xx (someone he could carry) + 20 min from Skjei/ADA on the second pair. Even with growing pain from xx.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

The issue is that we have 2 young goalies who both need to play NHL games. How are we managing that if Hank is playing 50 games each of the next 2 seasons?

Oh see, I meant 50 in 164 games.

 

[Kupo]

The issue is that we have 2 young goalies who both need to play NHL games. How are we managing that if Hank is playing 50 games each of the next 2 seasons?

Neither Shesty nor Georgy haven't proven enough to be starting goalies in the NHL. When that happens and they need playing time over Lundqvist, then we'll deal with it.

Did we fire Lindy Ruff?

Unfortunately not, but the blueline should be improved and that alone will hopefully help our goalies.

 

[TheDirtyH]

I know what your point is, you're just using bad logic to prove it. LOL. But anyway, moving on.

It's really just the only logic for the point. LOL. Whether the point itself is that profound or even worthwhile to prove, well I've lost track of that.

 

[kovazub94]

Oh see, I meant 50 in 164 games.

Lol, I was going to post that 50 games from Lundqvist should be cut down to about 46 this season, leaving about 36 for Georgiev (mostly) and Shesterkin. This would be my idea of transformation to 1A/1B split, followed by 46/36 in 2020-2021 where Lundqvist would become 1B. Your 50 over two years (however you split) making Lundqvist a backup goaltender right away is completely unrealistic.