Roster Building Thread IV (2019/2020)

[bl02]

yeah, I also would bet on one Lundqvist injury.

Any chance we trade Georgie during the season?

Would love to see shesty play so well that he can’t be denied a crack with the big club this year but It’s pretty imperative that Georgie gets a lot of playing time to continue to show what he can do either here or for somewhere else in the future (build up trade value ) . Most of us know he’s a good goalie with potential but not sure he would garner us what we would want in a trade just yet. Can we juggle three goalies and keep them happy until hanks contacts is up? Hank isn’t going anywhere.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Hank needs to move on preferably at the deadline but atleast in the summer next year. We shouldnt have to move a quality goalie because he feels entitled to the net. Put it plain and simple to him, it's either Hartford, the press box or the team of your choice. If he really loves this team he will move at the deadline for assets that will help the teamlike Cam Ward did and sign his one day contract and retire as a ranger.

 

[Kovalev27]

Would love to see shesty play so well that he can’t be denied a crack with the big club this year but It’s pretty imperative that Georgie gets a lot of playing time to continue to show what he can do either here or for somewhere else in the future (build up trade value ) . Most of us know he’s a good goalie with potential but not sure he would garner us what we would want in a trade just yet. Can we juggle three goalies and keep them happy until hanks contacts is up? Hank isn’t going anywhere.

Well here’s the thing I’m not so sure shesterkin is better than Georgiev. He needs to prove that because at the same age GEorgiev is already in the NHL and playing very well. So I’m not trading Georgiev to accommodate shesterkin. They’re both very good young goalies. Neither should be moved to accommodate a 38 year old declining goalie with a year left on his deal next summer.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

Totally agree with everything. I don't think we can juggle three though. Shesty specially should be starving.

All comes down to Hank's behavior and I have no clue on it. He is the OG and has been for more than a decade, but his little tantrums after getting scored on always rubbed me the wrong way. How badly does he need that Cup in his life? Has he that much power within the organization to force trades that make us contenders or something close to it? Will he want an extension? Too many questions and too many goalies.

 

[BBKers]

The last year for Hank is the real bitter pill. It was always gonna be that way in Sathers World, said this myself when the contract was signed. We will see how it unfolds...

 

[Machinehead]

They are building so oh well let the kids play and have some confidence in a few Former 1st round guys

Fast , Namestnikov , Strome are just fine bottom 6 players also

How long does "who cares we're rebuilding" last?

 

[bl02]

Well here’s the thing I’m not so sure shesterkin is better than Georgiev. He needs to prove that because at the same age GEorgiev is already in the NHL and playing very well. So I’m not trading Georgiev to accommodate shesterkin. They’re both very good young goalies. Neither should be moved to accommodate a 38 year old declining goalie with a year left on his deal next summer.

I agree I’m just being realistic. I don’t see how Hank is gone before his contract is up. Best case scenario in reality would be for shesty to be great in Hartford and Georgiev to continue to play well 40-50 games at the NHL level.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I still wonder if Hank is going to channel Ray Bourque and maybe look to get moved to a contender around the deadline. I just can't picture him prioritizing retiring a Ranger over one last shot to get a cup.

Would be the best case scenario for all involved, unfortunately not too many contenders are looking for goalies at the deadline, on top of the fact that he's got another year on the deal at a substantial amount, even if the Rangers ate some of the money, which I'm not sure is much of a priority for them anymore with their recent signing.

 

[Vitto79]

How long does "who cares we're rebuilding" last?

Gimme 2 more years lol
I expect them to be real good once the contracts of smith , Staal run out and the kids coming in now have 2 yrs in

 

[Trxjw]

Would be the best case scenario for all involved, unfortunately not too many contenders are looking for goalies at the deadline, on top of the fact that he's got another year on the deal at a substantial amount, even if the Rangers ate some of the money, which I'm not sure is much of a priority for them anymore with their recent signing.

I think the Rangers probably know that if Hank is going to get traded at any point it will be with retention. There's just no appetite for a $8.5M goalie whose best years are behind him. However, a $4.25m goalie who has experience and can be a work horse down the stretch if used properly throughout the year? That could entice some teams. Especially if some of the squads who are trying to compete for a cup aren't getting consistent play from their main guy during the year. The Flames are reliant on Talbot and Rittich. The Sharks can't seem to get consistent play from Jones. Chicago is only committed to Crawford and Lehner until the end of this season. A lot of stars need to align, but there could be some options depending on how the season shakes out.

 

[Charlie Conway]

Would be the best case scenario for all involved, unfortunately not too many contenders are looking for goalies at the deadline, on top of the fact that he's got another year on the deal at a substantial amount, even if the Rangers ate some of the money, which I'm not sure is much of a priority for them anymore with their recent signing.

Unlikely, but I could see a team with deadline space taking on Hank at 50% as insurance for any shaky playoff starts or to try to grab some extra wins heading towards the end of the season (say, Colorado or Columbus).

Boston has Rask, but then has Halak at $2.75 as their backup. It's not out of the realm of possibility, but it all depends on Hank.

 

[True Blue]

The Blues don't have a Tkachuk like player either, and they just won the Cup. It seems like your idea of "toughness" is changing by the post. First, it was players playing for each other (which we have, but you want to move them).

In fairness, they may not have a Tkachuk, but they are one of the biggest teams in the league and they certainly played a big boy's game.

 

[True Blue]

I loved both Hayes and Zuccarello but neither of them are in the same ballpark as far as talent as Panarin or Kakko. Shattenkirk's not a big loss either--Trouba's a much younger and better player.

So Panarin >> Zuccarello
Kakko>>>>Hayes
Trouba>>>>Shattenkirk

I think that saying that Kakko is already better than Hayes may be a stretch. Especially the level that Hayes was playing at last year in NY..

 

[True Blue]

If youre doing the whole hayes and zucc vs panarin, its not a good way of thinking. First off, zibanejad is going to have more points playing with panarin, probably 30 to 40 goals (i dont want to exaggerate). Next kakko should net around 40-50 points. Panarin himself has better forwards to work with (hes in his prime and as good as dubois is, zbad is currently better). The defense as a whole will be fine provided deangelo just takes his deal. In net, georgiev will probably split sparts with hank until one beats the other as the starter. Kravstov is better than vesey, chytil is a year older eith a full sesson under his belt. Guys cmon, we will be a better team this season. Id put us in the wildcard spot or at least 14th worst team in the nhl. We now have a 1rd, a star player, an elite 1c, an elite winger who broke records and won everything, a dazzler eith the puck in kravstov. My only concern is not being able to watch all the games bc of college.

You HOPE kakko has 40 or 50 points. You have no idea. The odds of a 50 point season from an 18 year old are not great. The team needs to replace the production of Hayes and Zucc. Let's say that Panarin repeats what he did last year and ZBad adds 16 more points to get to 90. That does not replace what the other players did.

As of today, you have no idea of what the K boys will do. You have a lot of hopes, but not much else. The expectations for them are blowing through the roof. You forget how young they are. One needs to have a reality check as to expectations and what is and what is not reasonable.

Then you factor in that the chances are that one of Kreider or Buch will be moved during the year. Yeah, 6th feels about right. I have maintained all along, that this year is still probably a lottery year. Will root for more and maybe they will surprise, but this team is not that much better than last year's version.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Strome sucks, Namestnikov kinda sucks, Lemieux is just ok, and Howden was very far from an NHL player last year.

And if Chytil doesn't take a huge stride forward, which is exactly what Rasp said, Strome isn't even in there because he'll be our 2C. Which leaves us with a still pretty bad Filip Chytil in the bottom six.

Not to mention this team is putting absolute trash on the ice if there's literally one injury. (I'm looking at McKegg and, right now, Andersson, it needs to be said)

Not a whole lot needs to go wrong for it to be the worst bottom six in the NHL.

How long does "who cares we're rebuilding" last?

This year? I mean I don't know what people expect. How does one acquire all those first round picks & prospects and not give the prospects time to mature and grow? Chytil, Andersson and Howden are 20, 20 and 21. Chytil has played the most NHL games of the three at a whopping 84. Part of developing prospects is playing them through and dealing with the growing pains. Part of rebuilding is that your season can go from decent to dumpster fire in short order.

This is the year to see where some of our young guys are, especially the three C's. You put them in all situations. You deal with the good and the bad. Icing Namestnikov, Strome and possibly McKegg is what it is. I don't understand why people are getting so bent out of shape about it. Is it ideal? No. Is it being blown out of proportion? Yep. If they are still being relied on for the 20-21 season when we should be on the upswing, then I can understand the frustration.

But after having the best off season this team has ever had, no one is satisfied. Not all of our problems can be remedied in one year, even if Gorton did a phenomenal job in addressing a ton of them.

 

[Gardner McKay]

You HOPE kakko has 40 or 50 points. You have no idea. The odds of a 50 point season from an 18 year old are not great. The team needs to replace the production of Hayes and Zucc. Let's say that Panarin repeats what he did last year and ZBad adds 16 more points to get to 90. That does not replace what the other players did.

As of today, you have no idea of what the K boys will do. You have a lot of hopes, but not much else. The expectations for them are blowing through the roof. You forget how young they are. One needs to have a reality check as to expectations and what is and what is not reasonable.

Then you factor in that the chances are that one of Kreider or Buch will be moved during the year. Yeah, 6th feels about right. I have maintained all along, that this year is still probably a lottery year. Will root for more and maybe they will surprise, but this team is not that much better than last year's version.

That is actually not true.

Dom Luszczyszyn does a great job of explaining why.

Kaapo Kakko is the largest unknown here, as he comes over without NHL data, though we can make some assumptions regarding the crafty scorer using his strong 38-point season in Liiga — five more than Patrik Laine in his draft year. Based on his NHLe and some age adjustments, my model is estimating he’ll be in the neighborhood of 51 points, good for around 1.4 wins as a solid second-line forward. It makes him one of the most valuable rookies in the league. With the unknowns surrounding that figure, though, there’s a decent chance he can surpass that mark.

2019-20 NHL Season Preview: New York Rangers

 

[SA16]

Doms season preview is largely nothing we didn’t know but he’s right that to even have a playoff chance we basically need massive steps forward from quite a few players.

The more interesting thing to me is despite the 6th worst projection that is STILL a 20% chance to make the playoffs which really isn't all that unlikely. And he, as I said, mentions that the Rangers have one of the highest levels of uncertainty in the league with their projection giving how many unknowns and young players they have.

 

[Machinehead]

This year? I mean I don't know what people expect. How does one acquire all those first round picks & prospects and not give the prospects time to mature and grow? Chytil, Andersson and Howden are 20, 20 and 21. Chytil has played the most NHL games of the three at a whopping 84. Part of developing prospects is playing them through and dealing with the growing pains. Part of rebuilding is that your season can go from decent to dumpster fire in short order.

This is the year to see where some of our young guys are, especially the three C's. You put them in all situations. You deal with the good and the bad. Icing Namestnikov, Strome and possibly McKegg is what it is. I don't understand why people are getting so bent out of shape about it. Is it ideal? No. Is it being blown out of proportion? Yep. If they are still being relied on for the 20-21 season when we should be on the upswing, then I can understand the frustration.

But after having the best off season this team has ever had, no one is satisfied. Not all of our problems can be remedied in one year, even if Gorton did a phenomenal job in addressing a ton of them.

I'm fine with it this year. I just don't want to fall into a trap with it. We have to hold ourselves to progressively higher standards to make sure the rebuild is progressing.

 

[eco's bones]

I think that saying that Kakko is already better than Hayes may be a stretch. Especially the level that Hayes was playing at last year in NY..

Well the 4th guy taken overall last year--Hayes cousin Brady Tkachuk put up 45 points right off. By the way he's a better player than Hayes already and I like Kevin Hayes. Or compare Kakko to another Finn Patrick Laine taken 2nd overall (like Kakko) in 2016. Laine puts up 33 points in 46 Liiga games in his draft year. Kakko put up 38 in 45 and is a more rounded player. Laine went straight to the NHL and had a 64 point season his first year. The lower end of 2nd overalls lately has been Nolan Patrick who put up 30 right after being drafted and I would expect him to be at least as good as Hayes. And even whether or not Kaapo puts up 64 like Laine in his first year I expect he'll be the better player. Kakko is a superstar in the making and if gets the same kind of ice time that Brady Tkachuk got he should at least equal (if not better) his point totals.

 

[True Blue]

That is actually not true.

Dom Luszczyszyn does a great job of explaining why.



2019-20 NHL Season Preview: New York Rangers

That is making an assumption based on what another player did and then dumping data in to an attempt to predict the future.

The fact of the matter is that in the history of the NHL, only 35 18 year olds have scored as many as 40 points and 23 netted 50. The fact that Laine has the 11th greatest season for an 18 year old does not predict how Kakko is going to do. His season could be more like Barkov, who netted less than 25 points.

It is fine to be hopeful, but the mathematical odds are against it. Trying to model out results where you get to determine the inputs and how much weight is placed on each is a fine exercise, but hardly a precise one. I would prefer to look at the overall data of what happens when an 18 year old steps onto the NHL ice.

Again, this is a kid who will not turn 19 until February. The expectations that are being placed on him are putting him in rarefied air on the mountaintop.

 

[True Blue]

Well the 4th guy taken overall last year--Hayes cousin Brady Tkachuk put up 45 points right off. By the way he's a better player than Hayes already and I like Kevin Hayes. Or compare Kakko to another Finn Patrick Laine taken 2nd overall (like Kakko) in 2016. Laine puts up 33 points in 46 Liiga games in his draft year. Kakko put up 38 in 45 and is a more rounded player. Laine went straight to the NHL and had a 64 point season his first year. The lower end of 2nd overalls lately has been Nolan Patrick who put up 30 right after being drafted and I would expect him to be at least as good as Hayes. And even whether or not Kaapo puts up 64 like Laine in his first year I expect he'll be the better player. Kakko is a superstar in the making and if gets the same kind of ice time that Brady Tkachuk got he should at least equal (if not better) his point totals.

You HOPE that Kakko is a superstar in the making. You have absolutely no idea if he is. What if he turns out to be Daigle? Or Berg? Tkachuk may have had a solid year, but if he completely backslides this year, are you still going to say that he is a way better player than Kevin Hayes?

We can each dazzle each other with stats, but the fact remains that the percentage of 18 year olds who have put up the points that you are talking about, is low. We all certainly hope that is not the case and that Kakko makes an impact immediately, but I for one just cannot hang my hat on just hope. I would like for there to be something sturdier. Like at least a few games played for instance.

 

[Fitzy]

Kakko may have outscored Laine, but he was outscored by Barkov. I have no doubt he will be a top player, I don't see much chance that he busts, but it is a matter of how long it takes them to adjust to the NHL.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

Based on being a superstar on any level that he had played on so far, Kakko is definitely a "superstar in the making". I'll pencil the probability of him becoming Daigle or Berg at 0.000001%

 

[Don Chytil]

Kakko may have outscored Laine, but he was outscored by Barkov. I have no doubt he will be a top player, I don't see much chance that he busts, but it is a matter of how long it takes them to adjust to the NHL.

Imagine the fun we'd have on these boards if Kakko's first two NHL seasons had similar stat lines to Barkov's first two seasons

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I think the Rangers probably know that if Hank is going to get traded at any point it will be with retention. There's just no appetite for a $8.5M goalie whose best years are behind him. However, a $4.25m goalie who has experience and can be a work horse down the stretch if used properly throughout the year? That could entice some teams. Especially if some of the squads who are trying to compete for a cup aren't getting consistent play from their main guy during the year. The Flames are reliant on Talbot and Rittich. The Sharks can't seem to get consistent play from Jones. Chicago is only committed to Crawford and Lehner until the end of this season. A lot of stars need to align, but there could be some options depending on how the season shakes out.

This season retaining on the salary wouldn't matter, but if the cap doesn't go up again very much as expected, can the Rangers afford a dead cap hit of $4.25 next season in addition to Shattenkirk's $6+ mill cap hit though?