Re-tooling For One More Run With This Core

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Re-tooling in a Salary Cap World IF done correctly is done internally through strong drafting and developing and then those players on cheap ELC contracts come in and becoming strong contributing members as more expensive vets move on via UFA.

As I pointed out in the other thread Dubas is emptying the draft pick cupboard and mortgaging the future on the present team that isn't succeeding in the playoffs.

Leafs gave away their 1st in 2019, 2020 and 2021 and have nothing to show but Muzzin who is in decline and often injured at age 34. Leafs only made 3 picks last year and only have 3 picks in this draft as a result of Dubas going All-In on the present.

Leafs have Ilya Mikheyev, Jason Spezza, Ilya Lyubushkin, Mark Giordano, Colin Blackwell & Jack Campbell all UFA and perhaps on the way out...

So is the re-tooling plan to re-sign our own RFAs Kase, Engvall, Sandin, Liljegren and maybe go UFA shopping for a Campbell replacement to play tandem with Mrazek and then fill from within with Nick Robertson, Nick Abruzzese, Joey Anderson, Rasmus Sandin, & Timothy Liljegren for next year and run it back?
that is quite underwhelming.

It's a shame all those picks were dished out with nothing to show for it (in terms of advancing in playoffs). And it also sucks that we really don't have that next wave of young players knocking on the door ready to compete in the bottom 6. Dubas hit a grand slam it seems with Knies but he isnt coming next season. That's the only guy I can confidently say is a legit pick.

The only guys I would look to keep are:

Bunting - Matthews - Marner (I think we can all agree this was a home run first line this year).
XXXXX - XXXXX - Tavares
XXXXX - Kampf - XXXX
XXXX - XXXX - XXXX

I would be real aggressive on the trade market with Nylander and Kerfoot to find a #2 centre and a 2 way winger for the 2nd line. My hope is JT moves to the wing next season.

Mikeyev and Engvall are not worth bringing back. Dubas has to go hunting again for bottom 6 guys. Good luck to him, it's a tough task.


Our defense should be another priority for improvement. I think at this stage you have to let Sandin and Lilygren be apart of the def. tandems. I would though look to move on from Muzzin while he has somewhat 'okay' value and replace Lebushkin for someone better. I'd only bring Gio back on a decent deal, I did like what he brought this season. Holl? Bye Bye.

Rielly - Brodie
Sandin - XXXX
Gio - Lilygren
 
I like the idea of retooling if the Leafs accomplishments went even slightly beyond losing in the first round for 6 straight seasons. The Leafs have already changed everything about the team after losing in the first round to Washington, from the entire coaching staff to every single player aside from Matthews/Marner/Nylander/Rielly. Fiddling around the edges of the same core in yet another season just seems like a waste
 
Re-tooling in a Salary Cap World IF done correctly is done internally through strong drafting and developing and then those players on cheap ELC contracts come in and becoming strong contributing members as more expensive vets move on via UFA.

As I pointed out in the other thread Dubas is emptying the draft pick cupboard and mortgaging the future on the present team that isn't succeeding in the playoffs.

Leafs gave away their 1st in 2019, 2020 and 2021 and have nothing to show but Muzzin who is in decline and often injured at age 34. Leafs only made 3 picks last year and only have 3 picks in this draft as a result of Dubas going All-In on the present.

Leafs have Ilya Mikheyev, Jason Spezza, Ilya Lyubushkin, Mark Giordano, Colin Blackwell & Jack Campbell all UFA and perhaps on the way out...

So is the re-tooling plan to re-sign our own RFAs Kase, Engvall, Sandin, Liljegren and maybe go UFA shopping for a Campbell replacement to play tandem with Mrazek and then fill from within with Nick Robertson, Nick Abruzzese, Joey Anderson, Rasmus Sandin, & Timothy Liljegren for next year and run it back?
You can fault individual deals, but most consistent playoff teams trade picks for depth, and not just at the deadline. Tampa deserves extra credit for pulling off a reverse-trade when they sent JT Miller to Vancouver for a 1st and 3rd round pick after their embarrassing loss to Columbus. Tampa won a Cup the next season.

Would be great if we could find a sucker like Jim Benning.
 
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You dont need to have a great skating to be an awesome skilled player

Corey Perry, Ryan Getzlaf, Zdeno Chara just as exemple...

Skating is really useful but you dont need to be an elite skater to be an elite player, like you dont need strenght too... but you cant be an elite skilled player without good puckhandlling, passing/shooting abilities and a great vision ( hockey QI)

Skating is a physical skill you can help you to be better like strenght but not AN HOCKEY SKILL. But if you want to consider this like a skill you need to consider strenght in the same category so overall skating = strenght and that still dont make leafs a more skilled team. So at the end thats change absolutly nothing...

You don't need every skill to be skilled, that is correct.

Strength is applied to skills, but it isn't itself a skill. Skating is both a skill and a combination of smaller skills.
 
You don't need every skill to be skilled, that is correct.

Strength is applied to skills, but it isn't itself a skill. Skating is both a skill and a combination of smaller skills.
Skating in offensive side helping you to using open space, create separation, being first on the puck...Thats helping you but not creating any hockey play by himself

Strengh help you to protect the puck, get possession of the puck, battle in front the net for deflection, rebound or screen the goalie. Thats helping you but not creating any hockey play by himself.

Puckhandling , passing/shooting, hockey QI, hand-eye coordination....its kind of stuff creating hockey play by himself
 
Re-tooling in a Salary Cap World IF done correctly is done internally through strong drafting and developing and then those players on cheap ELC contracts come in and becoming strong contributing members as more expensive vets move on via UFA.

As I pointed out in the other thread Dubas is emptying the draft pick cupboard and mortgaging the future on the present team that isn't succeeding in the playoffs.

Leafs gave away their 1st in 2019, 2020 and 2021 and have nothing to show but Muzzin who is in decline and often injured at age 34. Leafs only made 3 picks last year and only have 3 picks in this draft as a result of Dubas going All-In on the present.

Leafs have Ilya Mikheyev, Jason Spezza, Ilya Lyubushkin, Mark Giordano, Colin Blackwell & Jack Campbell all UFA and perhaps on the way out...

So is the re-tooling plan to re-sign our own RFAs Kase, Engvall, Sandin, Liljegren and maybe go UFA shopping for a Campbell replacement to play tandem with Mrazek and then fill from within with Nick Robertson, Nick Abruzzese, Joey Anderson, Rasmus Sandin, & Timothy Liljegren for next year and run it back?
Posters will bring up about us "emptying the cupboard" or "mortgaging the future" but will be the same people that bitch and say Dubas sat on his hands and did nothing to bolster the lineup going for a cup run. Well, which is it? You can't always have both.

And our cupboard is not empty. I posted earlier today that in the next 1-3 years, we have the likes of:

Knies
Robertson
Amirov (health)
Niemela
Holmberg
Steeves
Hirvonen
Anderson
Abramov
Kral
Tverberg

All tracking well to fill out the roster as cheap talent. Some as soon as this coming season. Not all of them are likely to make it but that doesn't look like a depleted farm to me. Not to mention the fact that we have been landing top college FA the last few years to help keep the cupboards stocked.

As long as we keep hitting on the few picks we have like we did in last year's and this year's draft, we are still in good shape. We only had 3 picks last year and 2 of them had outstanding seasons. I support Dubas' trading down method to acquire more picks. That Niemela and Hirvonen package turned out great so far.
 
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I like the idea of retooling if the Leafs accomplishments went even slightly beyond losing in the first round for 6 straight seasons. The Leafs have already changed everything about the team after losing in the first round to Washington, from the entire coaching staff to every single player aside from Matthews/Marner/Nylander/Rielly. Fiddling around the edges of the same core in yet another season just seems like a waste

Is this criticism I'm reading?!

Absolutely shocked.
 
Skating in offensive side helping you to using open space, create separation, being first on the puck...Thats helping you but not creating any hockey play by himself

Strengh help you to protect the puck, get possession of the puck, battle in front the net for deflection, rebound or screen the goalie. Thats helping you but not creating any hockey play by himself.

Puckhandling , passing/shooting, hockey QI, hand-eye coordination....its kind of stuff creating hockey play by himself

Skating helps you do a lot. That’s what makes is suck an important skill.
 
Skating helps you do a lot. That’s what makes is suck an important skill.
Like strenght help you a lot too... Whats your point?

Marner is a skilled player who excel with his skating... but hes not a skilled player because he skating well, hes a skilled player because he having an amaizing vision, passing ability, puckhandling abilities

Matthews is a skilled player who excel by his strenght. Matthews is not a skilled player because hes stronght and win most on their physical battle. Hes a skilled player because of his lethal shot, phenomenal hockey Qi, puckhandling...

Can do the same thing crosby/malkin, huberdeau/ barkov...
 
All I can do is lol at the idea of bringing Lyubushkin, Giordano and Blackwell back.
All 3 of them at the right cap hit are useful Blackwell is an honest player you know what you are getting lyubushkin rings something we sorely lack (in a 4-6 role would be ideal) and giordano assuming he takes a pay cut would be a damn fine 3-6
 
Like strenght help you a lot too... Whats your point?

Marner is a skilled player who excel with his skating... but hes not a skilled player because he skating well, hes a skilled player because he having an amaizing vision, passing ability, puckhandling abilities

Matthews is a skilled player who excel by his strenght. Matthews is not a skilled player because hes stronght and win most on their physical battle. Hes a skilled player because of his lethal shot, phenomenal hockey Qi, puckhandling...

Can do the same thing crosby/malkin, huberdeau/ barkov...

You're talking about just puck skills. That's just part of the skillset that makes a complete hockey player.

Maybe you should start writing emails to Gary Bettman and have the Fastest Skater event removed from the NHL Skills' Competition.
 
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Posters will bring up about us "emptying the cupboard" or "mortgaging the future" but will be the same people that bitch and say Dubas sat on his hands and did nothing to bolster the lineup going for a cup run. Well, which is it? You can't always have both.

And our cupboard is not empty. I posted earlier today that in the next 1-3 years, we have the likes of:

Knies
Robertson
Amirov (health)
Niemela
Holmberg
Steeves
Hirvonen
Anderson
Abramov
Kral
Tverberg

All tracking well to fill out the roster as cheap talent. Some as soon as this coming season. Not all of them are likely to make it but that doesn't look like a depleted farm to me. Not to mention the fact that we have been landing top college FA the last few years to help keep the cupboards stocked.

As long as we keep hitting on the few picks we have like we did in last year's and this year's draft, we are still in good shape. We only had 3 picks last year and 2 of them had outstanding seasons. I support Dubas' trading down method to acquire more picks. That Niemela and Hirvonen package turned out great so far.

Robertson is still 7-8 years away from the NHL
 
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Going back and forth on it. I think we need to move (be tough, because it's alot)
Nylander + Kerfoot + Muzzin + Holl + Mrazek

Nylander + Sandin For Chychrun + Crouse

Muzzin flipped for a similar aged 3rd line winger

Kerfoot / Holl/Mrazek hopefully moved and obtained a 4th line character player somehow.

Pursue a playoff warrior potential winger with untapped top6 potential (ability to mesh with our skill)

Top6:
Xxxx - Matthews - Marner
Xxxx - Tavares - xxxx
(Crouse/Bunting/FA/Knies/Robertson)

Bottom 6:
Xxxx - Kampf - xxxx
Xxxx - xxxx - xxxx
(Lots of moving parts, trades/internal etc - Mik/Engvall?)

Chychrun - Brodie
Rielly - Lybushkin
Giordano - Liljgren

Explore goaltending, keep contact with Soup
 
I like the idea of retooling if the Leafs accomplishments went even slightly beyond losing in the first round for 6 straight seasons. The Leafs have already changed everything about the team after losing in the first round to Washington, from the entire coaching staff to every single player aside from Matthews/Marner/Nylander/Rielly. Fiddling around the edges of the same core in yet another season just seems like a waste
Tampa did that same and their core won when those players were 26-28 year olds.
 
Posters will bring up about us "emptying the cupboard" or "mortgaging the future" but will be the same people that bitch and say Dubas sat on his hands and did nothing to bolster the lineup going for a cup run. Well, which is it? You can't always have both.

And our cupboard is not empty. I posted earlier today that in the next 1-3 years, we have the likes of:

Knies
Robertson
Amirov (health)
Niemela
Holmberg
Steeves
Hirvonen
Anderson
Abramov
Kral
Tverberg

All tracking well to fill out the roster as cheap talent. Some as soon as this coming season. Not all of them are likely to make it but that doesn't look like a depleted farm to me. Not to mention the fact that we have been landing top college FA the last few years to help keep the cupboards stocked.

As long as we keep hitting on the few picks we have like we did in last year's and this year's draft, we are still in good shape. We only had 3 picks last year and 2 of them had outstanding seasons. I support Dubas' trading down method to acquire more picks. That Niemela and Hirvonen package turned out great so far.
If Dubas didn't spend him time drafting mostly 5 foot nothing prospects maybe the leafs would have a shot at a decent prospect pool. The real issue here is Dubas, like his predecessor Burke, acts like hes the smartest in the room and quickly get slapped in the face by reality.
 
Posters will bring up about us "emptying the cupboard" or "mortgaging the future" but will be the same people that bitch and say Dubas sat on his hands and did nothing to bolster the lineup going for a cup run. Well, which is it? You can't always have both.

And our cupboard is not empty. I posted earlier today that in the next 1-3 years, we have the likes of:

Knies
Robertson
Amirov (health)
Niemela
Holmberg
Steeves
Hirvonen
Anderson
Abramov
Kral
Tverberg

All tracking well to fill out the roster as cheap talent. Some as soon as this coming season. Not all of them are likely to make it but that doesn't look like a depleted farm to me. Not to mention the fact that we have been landing top college FA the last few years to help keep the cupboards stocked.

As long as we keep hitting on the few picks we have like we did in last year's and this year's draft, we are still in good shape. We only had 3 picks last year and 2 of them had outstanding seasons. I support Dubas' trading down method to acquire more picks. That Niemela and Hirvonen package turned out great so far.
We should take solace in the fact we still have players that may or may not work out at the NHL level in the next few years

Nothing he's one of those fans that gets emotional after a loss and decides that everything is the worst case scenario. He's already penciling in Matthews leaving next season.

This board has some of the dumbest fans on the Internet.
Matthews signed a 5 year deal
He may want to win something in his career.
It's not out of the realm of possibility that he decides to move on from this shit show
 
You're talking about just puck skills. That's just part of the skillset that makes a complete hockey player.

Maybe you should start writing emails to Gary Bettman and have the Fastest Skater event removed from the NHL Skills' Competition.

When you talk about skill player YES we talk about puck skill... you dont talk about defensive, skating, physical, skills but only about offensive skill/ puck skill!!! Thats why when we say a team have a lot of skill = they had a lot of good offensive player.

I know skating, physical or defensive is very important but when you talk about skilled team, no body talking about those asset of the game. If you want to consider without using only offensive/ puck skill... you need to consider every aspect of the game and no just skating...Skating, physical game, defensive game... you need to consider every one of them and not just the only one you want to...

Yes they having skating competition... like hardest shot is a competition about strenght...
 
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The time to retool was the 2019 off-season, 2022 is way too late with Matthews NMC a year away. Short of some blockbuster trade, running it back one last time is the only viable option and I hate running it back. Too few picks and prospects to risk losing more. These back-to-back three pick drafts are already going to hurt in a few years.
 
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If we are running it back with the same core again (for the millionth time), I would like to see Dubas go after 1-2 forwards with some experience producing in the playoffs for the Top 9. I believe JT and maybe Kerfoot are the only guys in our Top 9 that have made it past the first round. Before Friedman mentioned him, I thought guys like Perron or even a Saad would be great fits to our top 9. Obviously those particular guys are expensive, so Dubas has to get creative to find similar players or make room by trading guys like Mrazek/Kerfoot/Holl. Not bring in guys like Simmonds and Clifford who barely play, or guys like Joe Thornton who's best days are behind him.
 
The time to retool was the 2019 off-season, 2022 is way too late with Matthews NMC a year away. Short of some blockbuster trade, running it back one last time is the only viable option and I hate running it back. Too few picks and prospects to risk losing more. These back-to-back three pick drafts are already going to hurt in a few years.
Based on the success or lack thereof of our past drafts, we don't know to a certainty that our present number of picks will succeed or fail.

Hindsight's an effortless, convenient tool when opportunity arrives. So is integrity and charity (giving the benefit of the doubt and account for all premises at the time in question). 2019 was the time to retool? If that's the standard for objective management, there should be a section on these boards to that effect: Idiotic GMs and What They Should Have Obviously Done When They Had The Chance.

Take another tired notion: First round losses: We've never played a team called "The First Round". We've played championship level teams for the most part with the exception of Columbus and Montreal. And only Montreal truly befuddled. The rest were populated with Hart winners, Selke winners, Rocket winners, Vezina winners, Adams winners, Norris winners, etc, etc...But! Shame on our 19 and 20 and 21 and 22 year olds for not imposing their will.

And again: The Cup is all that matters: It is and that doesn't mean patience, even infuriating patience isn't part of the equation. I said a while ago here - years ago? - that we'd have to learn to win. Which likely meant being ousted at every round including the Final before we did.

It's got to be the nature of information these days. That and attention spans. Add rudimentary critical thinking into the mix that's now as anachronistic as objective truth. Cobbled together. Because the truth is, there is a substantial contingent of fans who acknowledge the improvement for what it is and do so in the face in light of all circumstances.

Here's another exercise: Take Matthews, Marner, Tavares and Nylander and on an excel sheet, list the club's records with and without them in the line up. If one proves less effective than the other to team success, then perhaps there's an indication of where to "retool" if that's the driving premise. And that means, instead of insisting it's Nylander that has to go when the club does (IF I say, IF...) the same or better with Matthews out of the lineup, the constant critics better stand up and be as loud in the uncomfortable possibility that our best player maximized is our best way to the Cup.

See it's clearly biased to repeat that our best playoffs performer over the last few seasons is our best piece to move to improve our chances in the playoffs. If "we" take our bias and place it solidly behind the quest for the Cup, the "retool" should entail getting the most for our club and it's success as possible commensurate with the piece(s) that have underperformed during the time of year when it matters most and underscored by our fiduciary responsibilities to build a deep club primed to deploy wave after wave in front of a premium goaltender.

And who isn't that piece? Why William Nylander of course.

I think the uncomfortable reality is, now is the time to move the piece that yields the most and is best for our bottom line. Or, we see the steps the club took. We acknowledge that there were external factors that reasonably pushed our club on to Game 7 when there was no cause in the play between teams to do so and we support our reality and hope and believe (again reasonably so) that our front office can mine more gems and take one more step.

If not, I think in our discomfort we should all remember and be comforted in the fact that Quebec/Colorado won the Cup without Lindros and likely only won the Cup because they traded him. And we should be as vocal in the scenario that places those considerations in our situation every bit that's somehow determined our best producer at our best hit is somehow the best option for improved playoffs results.
 
I like the idea of retooling if the Leafs accomplishments went even slightly beyond losing in the first round for 6 straight seasons. The Leafs have already changed everything about the team after losing in the first round to Washington, from the entire coaching staff to every single player aside from Matthews/Marner/Nylander/Rielly. Fiddling around the edges of the same core in yet another season just seems like a waste

Unfortunately, it's difficult to win trades involving 34, 16 and even 88.

If you really lost faith in the group, then you have to argue that this is the best time to start a rebuild.
 

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