Re-tooling For One More Run With This Core

[acrobaticgoalie]

Hunter was terrible past the first round. Agreed Dubas is tracking better but we need some of his picks to play.

It is bad because nobody drafted outside the top 10 played (not sure who drafted Engvall but he pretty much did nothing) in the games that mattered most. There is hope for Lily and Sandin though. Knies probably makes it as soon as late next year. Robbie is probably moved at some point.

Like I said, most players don't make an immediate impact in the NHL drafted outside the first 15 picks 1, 2 or even 3 years after being drafted. Dubas hasn't drafted high in the 1st round other than for Amirov. Look back at the last 3 or 4 drafts and there isn't many picks around many of ours playing in the NHL. Many of our picks would be going much higher in a redraft.

Engvall was drafted by Nonis/Morrison iirc. He is 25.

Robertson went a ppg in the AHL this year and is starting to look more comfortable and sturdy playing against men. He is getting close. He just needs a little more weight, strength and balance. I doubt he is going anywhere unless we trade him for an impact player like a goalie.

 

[Nineteen67]

Too much loss in guys like Hyman/Brown/Kadri/Kap/Johnsson/etc. with no good replacements. That’s a lot of depth and quality out the door.
Instead of hoping 2/3 of the same guys always score the big goals, game winning, OT, you need to have 7-9 guys that can give you that option.
Point can’t do it? Nick Paul. Kucherov was sick in the first round? Ross Colton (who?) led a charge in game 4. This team is too heavy and starving below.

Had they just stayed the course with a proper build rather than moving in before the house was finished.
Pietrangelo?

 

[Nineteen67]

Look who has a M-NTC
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]GOALIES (3 - $6,200,000)[/TD]
[TD]YEARS REMAINING[/TD]
[TD]TERMS[/TD]
[TD]POS[/TD]
[TD]STATUS[/TD]
[TD]ACQUIRED[/TD]
[TD]AGE[/TD]
[TD]CAP%[/TD]
[TD]2021-22[/TD]
[TD]2022-23[/TD]
[TD]2023-24[/TD]
[TD]2024-25[/TD]
[TD]2025-26[/TD]
[TD]2026-27[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mrázek, Petr[/TD]
[TD]3 UFA[/TD]
[TD]M-NTC[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]NHL[/TD]
[TD]Signed[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]4.7[/TD]
[TD]M-NTC[/TD]
[TD]M-NTC[/TD]
[TD]M-NTC[/TD]
[TD]UFA[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Campbell, Jack[/TD]
[TD]1 UFA[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]NHL[/TD]
[TD]Trade[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]2.0[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]UFA[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Källgren, Erik[/TD]
[TD]2 RFA[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]NHL[/TD]
[TD]Signed[/TD]
[TD]25[/TD]
[TD]0.9[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]RFA[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Buds17]

I've actually thought about this as well. It would be a huge gamble for a number of reasons, especially with the overlap on the next Nylander/Marner/Matthews deals . That being said it could be an avenue to rid themselves of some contracts as well. Mrazek/Muzzin/Simmonds for example equal out exactly with the number Price makes. The Leafs would be forced to play Kallgren as the backup goaltender and would be solely relying on the health of an aging Price but that's a risk we have been used to the past few seasons. Interesting outside-the-box thought nonetheless.

If nothing else, adding a big salary in net would make for a change of pace. A (big?) problem I see with it involves making the team even more top heavy on the cap than they already are. Plus, there is the newly added conundrum of filling those two roster spots vacated by Muzzin and Simmonds while having to further dip into any available cap space.

 

[Trapper]

Had they just stayed the course with a proper build rather than moving in before the house was finished.
Pietrangelo?

Sadly the greatest thing that should have happened was missing the playoffs in the last of the Babcock era. Colorado with its core was able to add Makar, Tampa with its core added Drouin (traded for Serg), Carolina with its core added Svechnikov, etc.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Look who has a M-NTC
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]GOALIES (3 - $6,200,000)[/TD]
[TD]YEARS REMAINING[/TD]
[TD]TERMS[/TD]
[TD]POS[/TD]
[TD]STATUS[/TD]
[TD]ACQUIRED[/TD]
[TD]AGE[/TD]
[TD]CAP%[/TD]
[TD]2021-22[/TD]
[TD]2022-23[/TD]
[TD]2023-24[/TD]
[TD]2024-25[/TD]
[TD]2025-26[/TD]
[TD]2026-27[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mrázek, Petr[/TD]
[TD]3 UFA[/TD]
[TD]M-NTC[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]NHL[/TD]
[TD]Signed[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]4.7[/TD]
[TD]M-NTC[/TD]
[TD]M-NTC[/TD]
[TD]M-NTC[/TD]
[TD]UFA[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Campbell, Jack[/TD]
[TD]1 UFA[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]NHL[/TD]
[TD]Trade[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]2.0[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]UFA[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Källgren, Erik[/TD]
[TD]2 RFA[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]NHL[/TD]
[TD]Signed[/TD]
[TD]25[/TD]
[TD]0.9[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]RFA[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Of course he does. Dubas also felt the need to give Simmonds and Holl one

 

[TheGreatOne11]

Look who has a M-NTC
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]GOALIES (3 - $6,200,000)[/TD]
[TD]YEARS REMAINING[/TD]
[TD]TERMS[/TD]
[TD]POS[/TD]
[TD]STATUS[/TD]
[TD]ACQUIRED[/TD]
[TD]AGE[/TD]
[TD]CAP%[/TD]
[TD]2021-22[/TD]
[TD]2022-23[/TD]
[TD]2023-24[/TD]
[TD]2024-25[/TD]
[TD]2025-26[/TD]
[TD]2026-27[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mrázek, Petr[/TD]
[TD]3 UFA[/TD]
[TD]M-NTC[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]NHL[/TD]
[TD]Signed[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]4.7[/TD]
[TD]M-NTC[/TD]
[TD]M-NTC[/TD]
[TD]M-NTC[/TD]
[TD]UFA[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Campbell, Jack[/TD]
[TD]1 UFA[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]NHL[/TD]
[TD]Trade[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]2.0[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]UFA[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Källgren, Erik[/TD]
[TD]2 RFA[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]NHL[/TD]
[TD]Signed[/TD]
[TD]25[/TD]
[TD]0.9[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]RFA[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Dubas gives those things out like candy, surprised Nylander didn't get one but he gave him his "word" he'd never be traded, pretty sure he's the one gone regardless this year or next to balance and allocate the cap into a better all around team, there was a reason he refused to give him that no trade clause, after giving it to everyoneeeee.

Also Mrazeks is only a 10 team no trade, so still 20 plus teams to unload him too, sucks but not terrible.

 

[The Masters]

Dubas is a terrible negotiator. Jesus - why tf are you giving Mrazek a 10 team NTC?

 

[Magic Man]

Mrazek should waive no matter who is acquiring him. Why play in front of this market when they don't want you. Find an environment with less pressure and rebuild your game.

 

[Nineteen67]

Of course he does. Dubas also felt the need to give Simmonds and Holl one

Dubas gives those things out like candy, surprised Nylander didn't get one but he gave him his "word" he'd never be traded, pretty sure he's the one gone regardless this year or next to balance and allocate the cap into a better all around team, there was a reason he refused to give him that no trade clause, after giving it to everyoneeeee.

Also Mrazeks is only a 10 team no trade, so still 20 plus teams to unload him too, sucks but not terrible.

He’ll take up Kessel‘s Dead Cap spot. It’s only money.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Dubas is a terrible negotiator. Jesus - why tf are you giving Mrazek a 10 team NTC?

I'm sure he played hardball with Holl though and then conceded because he didn't want to lose him/wanted to keep him happy. Like it was necessary....

 

[keonsbitterness]

Their record this year vs good teams was stupid bad.

Our record this year vs good teams was stupid good. Didn't get us anywhere.

Tampa beefed up their bottom 6 at the TDL by adding Hagel and Paul (the jokers who laughed at Tampa TDL moves are eating crow once again). Meanwhile we could have LTIR'd Muzzin and added a top 6 winger to play with JT and chose not to.

But if we added that top-6 winger and still lost, today's 'return-on-investment' post from Mess would have been five paragraphs longer.

He’ll take up Kessel‘s Dead Cap spot. It’s only money.

Kessel's money and the $1M rise in next year's cap is already eaten up by Rielly's new contract.

 

[ACC1224]

Dubas is a terrible negotiator. Jesus - why tf are you giving Mrazek a 10 team NTC?

Being the favourite GM of NHL agents doesn't come without a little effort.

 

[Mess]

CBJ game #5 ....... CBJ 3 - Toronto 0
MON game #7 ... Mon- 3 -Toronto 1 [ William Nylander (5)- Assists: Jason Spezza (2), Auston Matthews (4) ]
TB game #7 ......... TB 2 - Toronto 1 [ Morgan Rielly (3) - Assists: Auston Matthews (5), Mitchell Marner (6) ]

Leafs core 4 forwards consume 1/2 the Teams Salary Cap and accounted for 1 goal and 3 assists on 2 goals over 3 playoff years,

What is the intent of a retooling that doesn't change the core 4 and just plays around the edges?

Are we expecting this NEW players to make Leafs core players more impactful to push the Leafs over the hump, or we expecting the new players to be the difference makers in a series for the Leafs to advance?

Last year we swapped out Zach Hyman, Joe Thornton, Alex Galchenyuk, Zach Bogosian, Frederik Andersen OUT for Michael Bunting, Ondrej Kase, David Kampf, Petr Mrazek & Nick Ritchie(-> Ilya Lyubushkin). IN

Did that achieve anything different between the Montreal loss and the Tampa Bay loss by tinkering around the edges?

So now the new retooling plan is Mikheyev (UFA), Spezza (UFA), Lybuskin (UFA) Giodano (UFA) & Jack Campbell (UFA) OUT and them replaced internally via prospects Robertson, Sandin, Liljegren or a few UFA adds and that is expecting to alter how the core performs or produce better results?

The Leafs are now 0-10 in series potential games on the past 5 years and at what point does one say "enough fishing and lets cut bait here, I've seen all I need to realize this working"?

 

[Racer88]

Dubas is a terrible negotiator. Jesus - why tf are you giving Mrazek a 10 team NTC?

Just crazy

 

[Gary Nylund]

Dubas gives those things out like candy, surprised Nylander didn't get one but he gave him his "word" he'd never be traded, pretty sure he's the one gone regardless this year or next to balance and allocate the cap into a better all around team, there was a reason he refused to give him that no trade clause, after giving it to everyoneeeee.

Also Mrazeks is only a 10 team no trade, so still 20 plus teams to unload him too, sucks but not terrible.

Has anyone compared how many of those things we give out as compared to other teams? I have no idea myself but it does seem like we give out a lot.

The Nylander thing is so weird. That's one thing that pissed me off from the start - promising not to trade him - whoever heard of such a thing?

 

[Trapper]

Has anyone compared how many of those things we give out as compared to other teams? I have no idea myself but it does seem like we give out a lot.

The Nylander thing is so weird. That's one thing that pissed me off from the start - promising not to trade him - whoever heard of such a thing?

No worse than declaring your coach will be a legend in 10 years. Who does that? Coaches get fired all the time.

 

[ShaneFalco]

No worse than declaring your coach will be a legend in 10 years. Who does that? Coaches get fired all the time.

That one made me laugh
Especially since he's been out coached on the playoffs every time
Joined at the hip

 

[Gary Nylund]

No worse than declaring your coach will be a legend in 10 years. Who does that? Coaches get fired all the time.

Sigh. Yeah that's just terrible to the point of being one of the dumbest comments I've ever heard any GM make. Hard to believe an otherwise smart guy like Dubas could make such an incredibly arrogant comment, especially at a time like this. No wonder so many people who watched the pressers are pissed off.

Edit:
To be fair to Dubas, I should say that I almost never watch pressers, especially ones from other teams so I'm sure I've missed a ton of dumb quotes. But that one is just ...

 

[leafsfan5]

No worse than declaring your coach will be a legend in 10 years. Who does that? Coaches get fired all the time.

Well, we're in a unique situation where our coach and GM are best friends. Probably hurts the objective responsibilites of the job......

 

[keonsbitterness]

No worse than declaring your coach will be a legend in 10 years. Who does that? Coaches get fired all the time.

That statement is really going to be tested if the Leafs struggle for the first two months of next season.

 

[Trapper]

That statement is really going to be tested if the Leafs struggle for the first two months of next season.

That is a totally unfair thing to do to Keefe.
It’s like saying the guy you draft is going to be Gretzky in 10 years.
Dubas should have known better. I question the reality of Shanahan and Dubas after some of that conference. Have they gone so far past the point of no return that they are suffering delusions on some level.
Down the rabbit hole we go.

 

[thusk]

Running is an important skill for football. Just because it’s a skill that is useful in other sports doesn’t change that.

You dont need to have a great skating to be an awesome skilled player

Corey Perry, Ryan Getzlaf, Zdeno Chara just as exemple...

Skating is really useful but you dont need to be an elite skater to be an elite player, like you dont need strenght too... but you cant be an elite skilled player without good puckhandlling, passing/shooting abilities and a great vision ( hockey QI)

Skating is a physical skill you can help you to be better like strenght but not AN HOCKEY SKILL. But if you want to consider this like a skill you need to consider strenght in the same category so overall skating = strenght and that still dont make leafs a more skilled team. So at the end thats change absolutly nothing...

 

[Mess]

Re-tooling in a Salary Cap World IF done correctly is done internally through strong drafting and developing and then those players on cheap ELC contracts come in and becoming strong contributing members as more expensive vets move on via UFA.

As I pointed out in the other thread Dubas is emptying the draft pick cupboard and mortgaging the future on the present team that isn't succeeding in the playoffs.

Leafs gave away their 1st in 2019, 2020 and 2021 and have nothing to show but Muzzin who is in decline and often injured at age 34. Leafs only made 3 picks last year and only have 3 picks in this draft as a result of Dubas going All-In on the present.

Leafs have Ilya Mikheyev, Jason Spezza, Ilya Lyubushkin, Mark Giordano, Colin Blackwell & Jack Campbell all UFA and perhaps on the way out...

So is the re-tooling plan to re-sign our own RFAs Kase, Engvall, Sandin, Liljegren and maybe go UFA shopping for a Campbell replacement to play tandem with Mrazek and then fill from within with Nick Robertson, Nick Abruzzese, Joey Anderson, Rasmus Sandin, & Timothy Liljegren for next year and run it back?

 

[Racer88]

That is a totally unfair thing to do to Keefe.
It’s like saying the guy you draft is going to be Gretzky in 10 years.
Dubas should have known better. I question the reality of Shanahan and Dubas after some of that conference. Have they gone so far past the point of no return that they are suffering delusions on some level.
Down the rabbit hole we go.

They are 100% delusional but unfortunately ownership is either to busy or can’t be bothered to hold employees responsible for continued failure

Re-tooling in a Salary Cap World IF done correctly is done internally through strong drafting and developing and then those players on cheap ELC contracts come in and becoming strong contributing members as more expensive vets move on via UFA.

As I pointed out in the other thread Dubas is emptying the draft pick cupboard and mortgaging the future on the present team that isn't succeeding in the playoffs.

Leafs gave away their 1st in 2019, 2020 and 2021 and have nothing to show but Muzzin who is in decline and often injured at age 34. Leafs only made 3 picks last year and only have 3 picks in this draft as a result of Dubas going All-In on the present.

Leafs have Ilya Mikheyev, Jason Spezza, Ilya Lyubushkin, Mark Giordano, Colin Blackwell & Jack Campbell all UFA and perhaps on the way out...

So is the re-tooling plan to re-sign our own RFAs Kase, Engvall, Sandin, Liljegren and maybe go UFA shopping for a Campbell replacement to play tandem with Mrazek and then fill from within with Nick Robertson, Nick Abruzzese, Joey Anderson, Rasmus Sandin, & Timothy Liljegren for next year and run it back?

All true yet some people think Dubas and Shanny should remain in their positions