Re-tooling For One More Run With This Core

[Mess]

See last summer we went into re-tooling and identified Hyman, Bogosian, Thornton and Freddy Andersen etc as the problem the core didn't win, and replaced them with Bunting, Kase, Nick Ritchie (who became Ilya Lyubushkin) and Petr Mrazek and got the same result. While the players they deemed expendable are still playing and on rosters now in the second round with their new teams.

Hyman for example who has 4-2-6 playoff points, has as many goals as Auston (4) and more than Marner (2), Nylander (3) and Tavares(3) of Leafs core in this years playoffs. He was blamed because he couldn't put Matthews and Marner over the top, and into round #2 last year, but not the case getting McDavid and Draisaitl moving on.

Hyman wanted a raise so Leafs replaced him cap wise with Bunting, Kase and Ritchie thinking 3 for 1 was better for the goal of longer term playoff success. Ritchie already long gone, Kase an RFA with multiple injury filled season and questionable to return, while Bunting took Hyman's spot on the top line beside AM & MM and while he had a good regular season his 1 goal playoff resulted in the same 1st round loss for the team.

Bogosian goes from TB (Stanley Cup) to ---> Toronto (out in round #1) --> back to Tampa (Stanley Cup ? TBD)

Freddy Andersen for $4.5 mil cap puts up 35 wins in reg season helping Carolina to 1st in the Metro, his replacement Mrazek for $3.8 mil saving $750k cap plays in 20 games and wins 12 for Toronto and now Leafs want out of that contract. Freddy Andersen deemed the problem in Toronto in game #7's the reason Leafs didn't advance in prior years, so his playoff replacement Jack Campbell also now 0-2 in series clinching games the 2nd best goalie in the game.

So this years Hyman, Thornton, Bogosian and Andersen appear to be identified as Mikheyev, Spezza, Lyubushkin and Jack Campbell all UFA and deemed expendable so Leafs can bring back the same core group again swapping out a few spare parts and run it back..

Lets hope this year's big trade like Kadri for Kerfoot and Barrie turns out more successful than last one for Leafs. Where Kadri blamed for past playoff losses, and now Kerfoot and Barrie more recent ones. Of course ex-Leafs Kadri and Barrie are now still playing in round #2, while the current one Kerfoot directly responsible and can be pinpointed to for a loss and exit, and earmarked to GO in trade this year,

After rinsing and repeating this process now for the past 4 unsuccessful years, Leafs current management trifecta, believe lucky #5 is the charm, and plan once again to tinker & re-tool around the edges with the process, when apparently its not the players being swapped out, but rather the players and management team staying that is the constant denominator in the Leafs losing in round #1. Pretty obvious you can't blame Hyman nor Kadri nor Barrie nor Freddy Andersen for the Leafs struggles in this years playoffs.

 

[Twowingcantfly]

One more run with this core?
Did we even have a run? A run is like having a go at something. IE... The Cup. First round exits are not a run. A 3rd round exit is a run. Please.......

 

[ShaneFalco]

See last summer we went into re-tooling and identified Hyman, Bogosian, Thornton and Freddy Andersen etc as the problem the core didn't win, and replaced them with Bunting, Kase, Nick Ritchie (who became Ilya Lyubushkin) and Petr Mrazek and got the same result. While the players they deemed expendable are still playing and on rosters now in the second round with their new teams.

Hyman for example who has 4-2-6 playoff points, has as many goals as Auston (4) and more than Marner (2), Nylander (3) and Tavares(3) of Leafs core in this years playoffs. He was blamed because he couldn't put Matthews and Marner over the top, and into round #2 last year, but not the case getting McDavid and Draisaitl moving on.

Hyman wanted a raise so Leafs replaced him cap wise with Bunting, Kase and Ritchie thinking 3 for 1 was better for the goal of longer term playoff success. Ritchie already long gone, Kase an RFA with multiple injury filled season and questionable to return, while Bunting took Hyman's spot on the top line beside AM & MM and while he had a good regular season his 1 goal playoff resulted in the same 1st round loss for the team.

Bogosian goes from TB (Stanley Cup) to ---> Toronto (out in round #1) --> back to Tampa (Stanley Cup ? TBD)

Freddy Andersen for $4.5 mil cap puts up 35 wins in reg season helping Carolina to 1st in the Metro, his replacement Mrazek for $3.8 mil saving $750k cap plays in 20 games and wins 12 for Toronto and now Leafs want out of that contract. Freddy Andersen deemed the problem in Toronto in game #7's the reason Leafs didn't advance in prior years, so his playoff replacement Jack Campbell also now 0-2 in series clinching games the 2nd best goalie in the game.

So this years Hyman, Thornton, Bogosian and Andersen appear to be identified as Mikheyev, Spezza, Lyubushkin and Jack Campbell all UFA and deemed expendable so Leafs can bring back the same core group again swapping out a few spare parts and run it back..

Lets hope this year's big trade like Kadri for Kerfoot and Barrie turns out more successful than last one for Leafs. Where Kadri blamed for past playoff losses, and now Kerfoot and Barrie more recent ones. Of course ex-Leafs Kadri and Barrie are now still playing in round #2, while the current one Kerfoot directly responsible and can be pinpointed to for a loss and exit, and earmarked to GO in trade this year,

After rinsing and repeating this process now for the past 4 unsuccessful years, Leafs current management trifecta, believe lucky #5 is the charm, and plan once again to tinker & re-tool around the edges with the process, when apparently its not the players being swapped out, but rather the players and management team staying that is the constant denominator in the Leafs losing in round #1. Pretty obvious you can't blame Hyman nor Kadri nor Barrie nor Freddy Andersen for the Leafs struggles in this years playoffs.

To be fair Bogo didn't want to come back for family reason as I recall

 

[Drytoast]

You keep going with this core. (they are in their early 20's for f*** sakes) But I think you may see Nylander shipped off. His unwillingness to go into 50/50 battles highlighted by that one play this year in the playoffs doesn't sit well with me. I also believe that Keefe isn't a big fan.

So while he's really skilled, he's gotta go.

Marner and Matthews are our Crosby/Malkin, Kane/Towes, Stamkos/Kucherov, yadda yadda.

Dubas's philosphy seems to be to pour money into our core and the bottom 6 can be swapped out as needed. I think now with Lilli and Sandin filling in on defense we should be fine.

Only hole is goaltender, and while I love Campbell...he had to take a healthy break to get his mind centered. I do not believe the center of the hockey universe and all the pressure that comes with it is really a great place for him.

 

[Dreakmur]

When you talk about skill player YES we talk about puck skill... you dont talk about defensive, skating, physical, skills but only about offensive skill/ puck skill!!! Thats why when we say a team have a lot of skill = they had a lot of good offensive player.

I know skating, physical or defensive is very important but when you talk about skilled team, no body talking about those asset of the game. If you want to consider without using only offensive/ puck skill... you need to consider every aspect of the game and no just skating...Skating, physical game, defensive game... you need to consider every one of them and not just the only one you want to...

Yes they having skating competition... like hardest shot is a competition about strenght...

Just because you and your buddies talk about skill in a limited context doesn’t mean skating isn’t a skill. It absolutely is.

Hardest shot is about the skill of shooting. Like skating, it’s 90% n mechanical skill and 10% strength.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Sadly the greatest thing that should have happened was missing the playoffs in the last of the Babcock era. Colorado with its core was able to add Makar, Tampa with its core added Drouin (traded for Serg), Carolina with its core added Svechnikov, etc.

We rushed everything after the Washington series. We should have traded away all the upcoming UFA's and loaded up even more talent. Instead Lou and then Dubas decided we were very close and went the other way. So much for a patient rebuild scenario.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Carter Verhaeghe
Mason Marchment

Think it would have been handy to have these guys?

But I’m sure we got an absolute haul for them and that we didn’t just piss them away for nothing…..

Are you trying to say that 20 games of Dennis Malgin and 1yr of Grabner were not worth it? How dare you insult Duby and lou.

 

[Racer88]

See last summer we went into re-tooling and identified Hyman, Bogosian, Thornton and Freddy Andersen etc as the problem the core didn't win, and replaced them with Bunting, Kase, Nick Ritchie (who became Ilya Lyubushkin) and Petr Mrazek and got the same result. While the players they deemed expendable are still playing and on rosters now in the second round with their new teams.

Hyman for example who has 4-2-6 playoff points, has as many goals as Auston (4) and more than Marner (2), Nylander (3) and Tavares(3) of Leafs core in this years playoffs. He was blamed because he couldn't put Matthews and Marner over the top, and into round #2 last year, but not the case getting McDavid and Draisaitl moving on.

Hyman wanted a raise so Leafs replaced him cap wise with Bunting, Kase and Ritchie thinking 3 for 1 was better for the goal of longer term playoff success. Ritchie already long gone, Kase an RFA with multiple injury filled season and questionable to return, while Bunting took Hyman's spot on the top line beside AM & MM and while he had a good regular season his 1 goal playoff resulted in the same 1st round loss for the team.

Bogosian goes from TB (Stanley Cup) to ---> Toronto (out in round #1) --> back to Tampa (Stanley Cup ? TBD)

Freddy Andersen for $4.5 mil cap puts up 35 wins in reg season helping Carolina to 1st in the Metro, his replacement Mrazek for $3.8 mil saving $750k cap plays in 20 games and wins 12 for Toronto and now Leafs want out of that contract. Freddy Andersen deemed the problem in Toronto in game #7's the reason Leafs didn't advance in prior years, so his playoff replacement Jack Campbell also now 0-2 in series clinching games the 2nd best goalie in the game.

So this years Hyman, Thornton, Bogosian and Andersen appear to be identified as Mikheyev, Spezza, Lyubushkin and Jack Campbell all UFA and deemed expendable so Leafs can bring back the same core group again swapping out a few spare parts and run it back..

Lets hope this year's big trade like Kadri for Kerfoot and Barrie turns out more successful than last one for Leafs. Where Kadri blamed for past playoff losses, and now Kerfoot and Barrie more recent ones. Of course ex-Leafs Kadri and Barrie are now still playing in round #2, while the current one Kerfoot directly responsible and can be pinpointed to for a loss and exit, and earmarked to GO in trade this year,

After rinsing and repeating this process now for the past 4 unsuccessful years, Leafs current management trifecta, believe lucky #5 is the charm, and plan once again to tinker & re-tool around the edges with the process, when apparently its not the players being swapped out, but rather the players and management team staying that is the constant denominator in the Leafs losing in round #1. Pretty obvious you can't blame Hyman nor Kadri nor Barrie nor Freddy Andersen for the Leafs struggles in this years playoffs.

This is so accurate. I just don’t understand how some think that once again swapping out the support players is going to result in any different result.
Its sad when you think about it

You keep going with this core. (they are in their early 20's for f*** sakes) But I think you may see Nylander shipped off. His unwillingness to go into 50/50 battles highlighted by that one play this year in the playoffs doesn't sit well with me. I also believe that Keefe isn't a big fan.

So while he's really skilled, he's gotta go.

Marner and Matthews are our Crosby/Malkin, Kane/Towes, Stamkos/Kucherov, yadda yadda.

Dubas's philosphy seems to be to pour money into our core and the bottom 6 can be swapped out as needed. I think now with Lilli and Sandin filling in on defense we should be fine.

Only hole is goaltender, and while I love Campbell...he had to take a healthy break to get his mind centered. I do not believe the center of the hockey universe and all the pressure that comes with it is really a great place for him.

Just think if we had a spare 11 million dollars to fix our goaltending issues. We might even be able to have a goalie as good as Tampa instead of a bargain bin goalie that just can’t seem to shut the door when it really matters

 

[Drytoast]

This is so accurate. I just don’t understand how some think that once again swapping out the support players is going to result in any different result.
Its sad when you think about it


Just think if we had a spare 11 million dollars to fix our goaltending issues. We might even be able to have a goalie as good as Tampa instead of a bargain bin goalie that just can’t seem to shut the door when it really matters

Do people have selective memories? Campbell was as good as vas. We averaged 4 goals against him for Christ sakes.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

See last summer we went into re-tooling and identified Hyman, Bogosian, Thornton and Freddy Andersen etc as the problem the core didn't win, and replaced them with Bunting, Kase, Nick Ritchie (who became Ilya Lyubushkin) and Petr Mrazek and got the same result. While the players they deemed expendable are still playing and on rosters now in the second round with their new teams.

Hyman for example who has 4-2-6 playoff points, has as many goals as Auston (4) and more than Marner (2), Nylander (3) and Tavares(3) of Leafs core in this years playoffs. He was blamed because he couldn't put Matthews and Marner over the top, and into round #2 last year, but not the case getting McDavid and Draisaitl moving on.

Hyman wanted a raise so Leafs replaced him cap wise with Bunting, Kase and Ritchie thinking 3 for 1 was better for the goal of longer term playoff success. Ritchie already long gone, Kase an RFA with multiple injury filled season and questionable to return, while Bunting took Hyman's spot on the top line beside AM & MM and while he had a good regular season his 1 goal playoff resulted in the same 1st round loss for the team.

Bogosian goes from TB (Stanley Cup) to ---> Toronto (out in round #1) --> back to Tampa (Stanley Cup ? TBD)

Freddy Andersen for $4.5 mil cap puts up 35 wins in reg season helping Carolina to 1st in the Metro, his replacement Mrazek for $3.8 mil saving $750k cap plays in 20 games and wins 12 for Toronto and now Leafs want out of that contract. Freddy Andersen deemed the problem in Toronto in game #7's the reason Leafs didn't advance in prior years, so his playoff replacement Jack Campbell also now 0-2 in series clinching games the 2nd best goalie in the game.

So this years Hyman, Thornton, Bogosian and Andersen appear to be identified as Mikheyev, Spezza, Lyubushkin and Jack Campbell all UFA and deemed expendable so Leafs can bring back the same core group again swapping out a few spare parts and run it back..

Lets hope this year's big trade like Kadri for Kerfoot and Barrie turns out more successful than last one for Leafs. Where Kadri blamed for past playoff losses, and now Kerfoot and Barrie more recent ones. Of course ex-Leafs Kadri and Barrie are now still playing in round #2, while the current one Kerfoot directly responsible and can be pinpointed to for a loss and exit, and earmarked to GO in trade this year,

After rinsing and repeating this process now for the past 4 unsuccessful years, Leafs current management trifecta, believe lucky #5 is the charm, and plan once again to tinker & re-tool around the edges with the process, when apparently its not the players being swapped out, but rather the players and management team staying that is the constant denominator in the Leafs losing in round #1. Pretty obvious you can't blame Hyman nor Kadri nor Barrie nor Freddy Andersen for the Leafs struggles in this years playoffs.

Very well put. I would add that they seem to want to avoid the obvious fact that our core might simply not be good enough. Having Willy who decides when to play hard and when not to, seems like he is critical because of a great contract and ok playoff points. At some point they have to realize you can't have 30-40% of the team change every year and expect to win the cup never mind a playoff round. You need some stability...some investment from the lower lineup players. To most of them it will be on to a different team next year ...so they really don't make a difference in the playoffs.

Maybe some homegrown players would help but we keep drafting undersized skill guys who, if they don't pan out, are useless to us. We keep drafting for 1st and 2nd lines or bust. We should be trying more Knies picks because even if his hands are not great in the NHL...he can still skate and hit etc. There is a reason other teams view undersized players as more risky than we do and it looks like they are correct.

 

[Racer88]

Do people have selective memories? Campbell was as good as vas. We averaged 4 goals against him for Christ sakes.

The average goals only tell some of the story. It’s all about not allowing goals at critical times Something that Vas seems much better at

 

[Drytoast]

The average goals only tell some of the story. It’s all about not allowing goals at critical times Something that Vas seems much better at

Campbell was not the problem is what your eyes should have told you. Lol

In game seven Vas let in 2 goals as did Campbell.

 

[Racer88]

Campbell was not the problem is what your eyes should have told you. Lol

In game seven Vas let in 2 goals as did Campbell.

I am certainly not going down the rabbit hole of arguing if Tavares goal should count or not

 

[myleafs]

The average goals only tell some of the story. It’s all about not allowing goals at critical times Something that Vas seems much better at

Gretzky and Messier talk about Grant Fuhr in this regard. He could let in a bunch of goals but when he needed to shut the door....he did. Its what separates the good from the great imo and unfortunately the greats are far and few between.

 

[Racer88]

Campbell was not the problem is what your eyes should have told you. Lol

In game seven Vas let in 2 goals as did Campbell.

In game 6 Campbell let in 4 goals and Vas let in 3.

Gretzky and Messier talk about Grant Fuhr in this regard. He could let in a bunch of goals but when he needed to shut the door....he did. Its what separates the good from the great imo and unfortunately the greats are far and few between.

Yup It is absolutely a thing. Just counting number of goals over a series can certainly be misleading

 

[Drytoast]

I am certainly not going down the rabbit hole of arguing if Tavares goal should count or not

Vas let in that goal. It did happen. The refs bailed him out.

Is that Campbell's fault?

In game 6 Campbell let in 4 goals and Vas let in 3.


Yup It is absolutely a thing. Just counting number of goals over a series can certainly be misleading

In game 6 the refs gifted Tampa Bay a 5-3.

Give us a 5-3 and watch us score

 

[justashadowof]

Carter Verhaeghe
Mason Marchment

Think it would have been handy to have these guys?

But I’m sure we got an absolute haul for them and that we didn’t just piss them away for nothing…..

Marchment there's no excuse for but Verhaeghe took 4 minor league seasons including 2 stints in the ECHL and 2 organizations before making the NHL. The current CBA doesn't allow teams that much patience with their draft picks.

 

[myleafs]

Vas let in that goal. It did happen. The refs bailed him out.

Is that Campbell's fault?


In game 6 the refs gifted Tampa Bay a 5-3.

Give us a 5-3 and watch us score

I know your sincere in saying this stuff and I mean no disrespect to your opinion but if the leafs brass feel like you do (which very well could be the case) then we are hooped in my opinion. Making excuses (again) or blaming outside forces that you have no control over for failure only leads to more failure imo. It's always something and will always be something so come to terms with that and do what you gotta do to get the job done. Period. Full stop. As some old wise creature once said.....There is no try, only do.

 

[Lightsol]

I'd rather have guys like E.Kane

"Everyone says this group is mentally weak. You know what they should do? Bring in the guy who's been a locker room cancer on every team he's played for!"

 

[Drytoast]

I know your sincere in saying this stuff and I mean no disrespect to your opinion but if the leafs brass feel like you do (which very well could be the case) then we are hooped in my opinion. Making excuses (again) or blaming outside forces that you have no control over for failure only leads to more failure imo. It's always something and will always be something so come to terms with that and do what you gotta do to get the job done. Period. Full stop. As some old wise creature once said.....There is no try, only do.

If you just watch that series and think it's the exact same as Montreal even though it has the exact same result I don't know what to tell you.

Because of cap limitations there's going to be retooling this year you can count on it and they're very well be some bigger players moved on out to free up cap space.

But I'm proud of how they played I'm proud in the season they had and our core players are still in the early twenties I'm chill

 

[Lightsol]

Guys like Kerfoot and Blackwell tried to play hard but they were just too weak to accomplish much physically. 5’9” vs 6’4” is a tough road to take…

Anyone tell Tie Domi and Darcy Tucker they were too short to play tough?

 

[myleafs]

"Everyone says this group is mentally weak. You know what they should do? Bring in the guy who's been a locker room cancer on every team he's played for!"

I don't know if thats still the case (it doesn't seem to be in Edm) but man the kind of player he is is exactly what this team could use....2 of em in my perfect scenario.

 

[myleafs]

If you just watch that series and think it's the exact same as Montreal even though it has the exact same result I don't know what to tell you.

Because of cap limitations there's going to be retooling this year you can count on it and they're very well be some bigger players moved on out to free up cap space.

But I'm proud of how they played I'm proud in the season they had and our core players are still in the early twenties I'm chill

Well, against the Habs the leafs looked like world beaters after 4 games and had it in the bag, then we know what happened. This year leafs looked very good against a very good team but when it came to crunch time the same thing happened. They were shut down.....a better effort?...sure but they still couldn't close the deal. I enjoyed the season as well and all the individual accolades but I just couldn't allow myself to get pulled into the hype....Ive been a leaf fan too long to fall for that one again and sure enough the bottom fell out. Im not sold on the make up of the team and feel we have too many of the same kind of player making the big bucks. Id rather have a stud dman and a stud goalie than Tavares and Nylander or at least 2 forwards who play a different style than those 2 guys. Matthews and Marner just about assure we will make the playoffs as long as they are here so why not go for a mixed bag of players who offer different things and just maybe we will see different results.

 

[Drytoast]

Well, against the Habs the leafs looked like world beaters after 4 games and had it in the bag, then we know what happened. This year leafs looked very good against a very good team but when it came to crunch time the same thing happened. They were shut down.....a better effort?...sure but they still couldn't close the deal. I enjoyed the season as well and all the individual accolades but I just couldn't allow myself to get pulled into the hype....Ive been a leaf fan too long to fall for that one again and sure enough the bottom fell out. Im not sold on the make up of the team and feel we have too many of the same kind of player making the big bucks. Id rather have a stud dman and a stud goalie than Tavares and Nylander or at least 2 forwards who play a different style than those 2 guys. Matthews and Marner just about assure we will make the playoffs as long as they are here so why not go for a mixed bag of players who offer different things and just maybe we will see different results.

They scored 2 goals in game 7. Tampa scored 2 goals in game seven.

The refs decided it. They were able to freely interfere on their goals...we had ours called back.

Vas certainly couldn't shut the door in game 5. And game 6 Tampa was gifted almost a full 5-3 to tie the game. Do you think we couldn't score on Vas with a full 5-3? We did in the first game.

This series was dead even. The refs dictated the outcome. The refs for game 4 were so god damn awfully one sided that they are not going to be refereeing again these playoffs.

That's the game where they gifted Tampa 8 f***ing powerplays? Matthews almost sat for a full period for christ sakes.

That's what I saw. That's how it is.

 

[Dreakmur]

Anyone tell Tie Domi and Darcy Tucker they were too short to play tough?

Yes, small guys can play tough, but it’s a huge disadvantage.

"Everyone says this group is mentally weak. You know what they should do? Bring in the guy who's been a locker room cancer on every team he's played for!"

A little adversity can make you stronger. They’re mentally weak because they’re overprotected.