Re-tooling For One More Run With This Core

[Nineteen67]

58 - 34 - 16
XXX - 91 - 88
XXX - 65 - XXX
XXX - 11 - XXX

44 - 78
8 - 37
55 - 38

XXX
XXX

Toronto needs to find 5 wingers, those could be Engvall back and Kase, but for our 4th line, we need better players then Clifford/Simmonds that provide the same thing as them, our 4th line needs to be better on the forecheck and can hit and somewhat make a basic play.

I think for goaltending there going to go after a guy like Georgiev, Blackwood, Korpisalo.

You’re giving up Kampf?

 

[Gary Nylund]

I just explained it. The difference is we have 4 heavy guys on the cap with JT being the biggest liability. Teams dont have 4 guys making that much, that's the difference. It's a problem for the rest of the bottom 6 and filling out the roster. Teams are not constantly changing their bottom 6 every year, especially the good ones. So now Dubas has pressure every year to keep chasing and trying to hit. He's been burned lots already, even as recent as last year with Mrazek and Ritchie - and that was one of his better off-seasons. Add to the fact the team was good in the health department and with no development coming up from the marlies - it's a problem. Tampa won 2 cups and had to change their bottom 6 due to the cap. They are not changing it every year like we are. 2 different things.

I am not mentioning things that are out of realm. We just lost to Tampa because their bottom 6 produced and was better than ours. Those are the things that win you a series, which is why we haven't done it in 6 attempts.

Every team has cap issues and some contracts that are less then ideal. I don't see the bottom 6 as a big issue and I disagree we lost to TB because of the bottom 6, IMHO the main reason we lost was that we don't have a quality #1 goalie. The lack of a quality goalie is by far our biggest problem, the bottom 6 comparatively speaking isn't an issue at all so maybe we'll just have to agree to disagree here.

On one hand, I think the fact that the 4 guys with the big contracts are all forwards might be a a problem and if one of them was a Dman or a goalie, that would be better. That's why I would like flip Nylander for a goalie so I think we have some common ground here.

On the other hand, don't think it's quite right to say that this team sucks like many are saying because we always lose in the 1st round and so on, just one damn bounce goes the other way and we're in the 2nd round after beating the b2b champs. It's a fine line sometimes between winning and losing when two roughly equal teams face each other and if we were to replay the series against TB, it would be a tossup and almost certainly go 6/7 games again.

Things to consider:

1. Giordano's legs seem to have just about had it. He's getting by on veteran savvy at this point. Probably best to stay away unless there are no other options.
2. Engvall has the numbers to get a raise that I don't think the Leafs can afford (~$2.5M aav). He may be gone.
3. Kase is the same situation. Qualifying Kase is a commitment to arbitration and undoubtedly Kase would get even more money than Engvall in arbitration.
4. Kerfoot has a modified NTC that kicks in July 1. Holl is already on a modified NTC.
5. Mikheyev is up for an even bigger raise (>$3M aav).
6. Muzzin has a full NTC. He's not going anywhere.
7. Leafs should have a real shot at re-signing Lybushkin and Blackwell if those both parties wish to make a deal.
8. A Bird in the Hand etc. etc. Be careful what you end up with when you reject Jack Campbell in favour of the unknown.

I thought Muzzin can name 10 teams where we can't trade him to, am I wrong?

I would bring back Campbell only if we can't find someone better. I really hope we do though.

 

[Nineteen67]

How often do teams win in the playoffs without stellar goaltending?

You want to go into a season feeling confident that the goalie can play at extremely high level, because they’ve proven it in the past. Sometimes you get lucky with a minor league goalie that you’ve groomed in your system - Roy, Binnington - that‘s in the Conn Smythe running, but it’s not the desired plan.

 

[tmlfan98]

I thought Muzzin can name 10 teams where we can't trade him to, am I wrong?

I would bring back Campbell only if we can't find someone better. I really hope we do though.

For both Muzzin and Brodie, the 10 team NTC is only in the last year of their contracts. Until 2023-24 it's full NTCs for both.

 

[Torontonian]

You’re giving up Kampf?

Oops, he was meant to be 64, not 65 haha. No he would be our 3rd line C

 

[justashadowof]

I thought Muzzin can name 10 teams where we can't trade him to, am I wrong?

I would bring back Campbell only if we can't find someone better. I really hope we do though.

My source is CapFriendly. Up until the summer of 2023 Muzzin has a full no trade contract then it turns into a modified no trade on July 1st 2023 (10 team list).

 

[The Masters]

Every team has cap issues and some contracts that are less then ideal. I don't see the bottom 6 as a big issue and I disagree we lost to TB because of the bottom 6, IMHO the main reason we lost was that we don't have a quality #1 goalie. The lack of a quality goalie is by far our biggest problem, the bottom 6 comparatively speaking isn't an issue at all so maybe we'll just have to agree to disagree here.

On one hand, I think the fact that the 4 guys with the big contracts are all forwards might be a a problem and if one of them was a Dman or a goalie, that would be better. That's why I would like flip Nylander for a goalie so I think we have some common ground here.

On the other hand, don't think it's quite right to say that this team sucks like many are saying because we always lose in the 1st round and so on, just one damn bounce goes the other way and we're in the 2nd round after beating the b2b champs. It's a fine line sometimes between winning and losing when two roughly equal teams face each other and if we were to replay the series against TB, it would be a tossup and almost certainly go 6/7 games again.


I thought Muzzin can name 10 teams where we can't trade him to, am I wrong?

I would bring back Campbell only if we can't find someone better. I really hope we do though.

Well a main reason we lost to Tampa was because their bottom 6 produced and ours didn't. The stats back that up. Campbell was fine and wasn't the problem. We got zero production from bottom 6 - that was the difference. Engvall? Ghost. Mikeyev? Ghost. Our 4th line? Lol. The only thing they produced were penalities.

If JT was McDavid and getting that $11M clip, that's a different story. But he's not. The bottom 6 is suffering because of it and like I said, there's nothing in pipeline to bring that next wave of guys which is concerning. Going out every year trying to hit on guys doesn't work, it's a tough game to play.

 

[Gary Nylund]

For both Muzzin and Brodie, the 10 team NTC is only in the last year of their contracts. Until 2023-24 it's full NTCs for both.

My source is CapFriendly. Up until the summer of 2023 Muzzin has a full no trade contract then it turns into a modified no trade on July 1st 2023 (10 team list).

I could be wrong, this ("future years") made it sounds like a 10 team no-trade would be in place for more than one year.

Jake Muzzin’s extension in TOR includes a no-movement clause for next season before converting to a no-trade clause and 10-team no-trade in future years.

Leafs re-sign Jake Muzzin for 4 years [Updated]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"> <p dir="ltr" lang="en">Buzzing for...

theleafsnation.com

Well a main reason we lost to Tampa was because their bottom 6 produced and ours didn't. The stats back that up. Campbell was fine and wasn't the problem. We got zero production from bottom 6 - that was the difference. Engvall? Ghost. Mikeyev? Ghost. Our 4th line? Lol. The only thing they produced were penalities.

If JT was McDavid and getting that $11M clip, that's a different story. But he's not. The bottom 6 is suffering because of it and like I said, there's nothing in pipeline to bring that next wave of guys which is concerning. Going out every year trying to hit on guys doesn't work, it's a tough game to play.

The only forwards with 0 points in the playoffs were Clifford and Simmonds.

I think goaltending is by far our biggest problem so agree to disagree I guess.

 

[DarkKnight]

Engvall ZERO blocked shots all series.

 

[justashadowof]

I could be wrong, this ("future years") made it sounds like a 10 team no-trade would be in place for more than one year.

Jake Muzzin’s extension in TOR includes a no-movement clause for next season before converting to a no-trade clause and 10-team no-trade in future years.

Leafs re-sign Jake Muzzin for 4 years [Updated]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"> <p dir="ltr" lang="en">Buzzing for...

theleafsnation.com

The only forwards with 0 points in the playoffs were Clifford and Simmonds.

I think goaltending is by far our biggest problem so agree to disagree I guess.

Capfriendly explicitly has the clause code "NTC" besides 2022-23 and "M-NTC" besides 2023-24 on Muzzin's page.

The numbers suggest that Campbell didn't have a great series but I have no recollection of terrible goals against him.

 

[Torontonian]

I think goaltending is by far our biggest problem so agree to disagree I guess.

I tend to agree as well, your goalie in closing games needs to be your best player. Campbell hasn’t outplayed or out dueled the opposing goalie in 5 games (3 against MTL, 2 against Tampa). That’s a flat out issue.

Campbell isn’t at fault for losing those two series, but he isn’t off the hook what so ever, he hasn’t outplayed his counter part once when it’s matter the most in 5 games.

 

[The Masters]

I could be wrong, this ("future years") made it sounds like a 10 team no-trade would be in place for more than one year.

Jake Muzzin’s extension in TOR includes a no-movement clause for next season before converting to a no-trade clause and 10-team no-trade in future years.

Leafs re-sign Jake Muzzin for 4 years [Updated]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"> <p dir="ltr" lang="en">Buzzing for...

theleafsnation.com

The only forwards with 0 points in the playoffs were Clifford and Simmonds.

I think goaltending is by far our biggest problem so agree to disagree I guess.

Engvall and Mikky and Kase did nothing. Their 4th line was a joke all series. Kampf was the only guy to produce. Campbell didn't lose them the series.

 

[ACC1224]

Well a main reason we lost to Tampa was because their bottom 6 produced and ours didn't. The stats back that up. Campbell was fine and wasn't the problem. We got zero production from bottom 6 - that was the difference. Engvall? Ghost. Mikeyev? Ghost. Our 4th line? Lol. The only thing they produced were penalities.

This all day. Bottom 6 needs a serious overhaul.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Capfriendly explicitly has the clause code "NTC" besides 2022-23 and "M-NTC" besides 2023-24 on Muzzin's page.

The numbers suggest that Campbell didn't have a great series but I have no recollection of terrible goals against him.

As far as Muzzin goes, I'll assume you guys are correct, which sucks of course. I thought Muzzin played well in the playoffs though so maybe it's not the end of the world.

Terrible goals - some people were more critical of Campbell than I was. I don't think he was terrible, but I also think that he was OK at best.

I just think that overall, our forward group is very strong, so is our defence but our goaltending isn't. That's maybe an oversimplification but I also think it's accurate.

 

[Nineteen67]

Assuming he’s 100% healthy and ready to play, is there any possible way that the Leafs could acquire Carey Price?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Engvall and Mikky and Kase did nothing. Their 4th line was a joke all series. Kampf was the only guy to produce. Campbell didn't lose them the series.

I guess we have a different idea of what "nothing" means. As I said, agree to disagree.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Well a main reason we lost to Tampa was because their bottom 6 produced and ours didn't. The stats back that up. Campbell was fine and wasn't the problem. We got zero production from bottom 6 - that was the difference. Engvall? Ghost. Mikeyev? Ghost. Our 4th line? Lol. The only thing they produced were penalities.

It's a re-occuring theme. Almost like there isn't enough cap space to provide anything other than bargain players and/or players that like the core, that look decent in the regular season and provide nothing in the playoffs. But get a player like Bunting and Dubas is a hero (after also getting guys like Mrazek, Simmonds, Thornton, Foligno, Ritchie, Kase, Riitich, Petan, Malgin, Barabanov etc)

 

[The Masters]

I guess we have a different idea of what "nothing" means. As I said, agree to disagree.

yes production.

It's a re-occuring theme. Almost like there isn't enough cap space to provide anything other than bargain players and/or players that like the core, that look decent in the regular season and provide nothing in the playoffs. But get a player like Bunting and Dubas is a hero (after also getting guys like Mrazek, Simmonds, Thornton, Foligno, Ritchie, Kase, Riitich, Petan, Malgin, Barabanov etc)

his stance isn't changing either. his presser he admitted again you pay your big guns and thats it. bottom 6 is an after thought. leafs will continue to lose with this philosophy unless they change up how they allocate the cap.

 

[ACC1224]

Assuming he’s 100% healthy and ready to play, is there any possible way that the Leafs could acquire Carey Price?

That seems like a very risky proposition.

 

[Gary Nylund]

yes production.


his stance isn't changing either. his presser he admitted again you pay your big guns and thats it. bottom 6 is an after thought. leafs will continue to lose with this philosophy unless they change up how they allocate the cap.

We'll see. We came within an inch of beating TB who might be the best team in the league so giving up on next season before it begins seems overly pessimistic to me.

Not sure how much stock to put in what anyone says at a presser which is nothing more than a PR exercise. If however Dubas has the POV that the big 4 are staying put no matter what, then I agree that's a bad attitude and I would fire him just for that.

 

[The Masters]

We'll see. We came within an inch of beating TB who might be the best team in the league so giving up on next season before it begins seems overly pessimistic to me.

Not sure how much stock to put in what anyone says at a presser which is nothing more than a PR exercise. If however Dubas has the POV that the big 4 are staying put no matter what, then I agree that's a bad attitude and I would fire him just for that.

no ones giving up. There's a body of work here to suggest the formula isn't working. After 6 attempts, it's fair to say to shake it up and allocate the cap% around the roster more intelligently.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

13th Forward: Wayne Simmonds (900k)

It's time to move on.

We came within an inch of beating TB who might be the best team in the league

Absolutely no way they are.

Their record this year vs good teams was stupid bad.

 

[Nineteen67]

That seems like a very risky proposition.

I know, but if he was 100 physical and mentally prepared to play and they could make it work it might be worth it.
Whatever they give up to get him has to be replaced with competent NHL players that provide something different that this team lacks. A 25 goal scorer that can crash the net and score goals that way, might be more valuable than Nylander come playoffs.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

This all day. Bottom 6 needs a serious overhaul.

How much does Tampa spend on their bottom six vs ours ?

 

[ACC1224]

How much does Tampa spend on their bottom six vs ours ?

No idea

I know, but if he was 100 physical and mentally prepared to play and they could make it work it might be worth it.
Whatever they give up to get him has to be replaced with competent NHL players that provide something different that this team lacks. A 25 goal scorer that can crash the net and score goals that way, might be more valuable than Nylander come playoffs.

That is a definite need.