RD Seth Jones (2013, 4th overall, Nashville) II

[The Nuge]

Everytime defenseman are chosen top 5, or even #1 overall they seem to disappoint.

Hopefully Jones is different.

Huh? Here are all the top drafted dmen from the last cba. How exactly do they all seem to disappoint?

Larsson
Gudbranson
Hedman
OEL
Doughty
Bogosian
Pietrangelo
Schenn (ok, he hasn't been great)
Hickey (it's really not fair to include him since he was an off the board pick)
Alzner
Erik Johnson
Jack Johnson

 

[7even]

Huh? Here are all the top drafted dmen from the last cba. How exactly do they all seem to disappoint?

Larsson
Gudbranson
Hedman
OEL
Doughty
Bogosian
Pietrangelo
Schenn (ok, he hasn't been great)
Hickey (it's really not fair to include him since he was an off the board pick)
Alzner
Erik Johnson
Jack Johnson

Now compare to the top forward drafted.

 

[Positive]

Huh? Here are all the top drafted dmen from the last cba. How exactly do they all seem to disappoint?

Larsson
Gudbranson
Hedman
OEL
Doughty
Bogosian
Pietrangelo
Schenn (ok, he hasn't been great)
Hickey (it's really not fair to include him since he was an off the board pick)
Alzner
Erik Johnson
Jack Johnson

You:

Pierre:

 

[S E P H]

Huh? Here are all the top drafted dmen from the last cba. How exactly do they all seem to disappoint?

Larsson
Gudbranson
Hedman
OEL
Doughty
Bogosian
Pietrangelo
Schenn (ok, he hasn't been great)
Hickey (it's really not fair to include him since he was an off the board pick)
Alzner
Erik Johnson
Jack Johnson

Because defensemen develop overnight and should all reach Pronger level?!

 

[613Leafer]

He has the tools to be. But will he hit that full potential? Probably not, no.

 

[Lord Flacko*]

HELL NO. Not even close.

 

[JawandaPuck]

RD Seth Jones - Portland Winterhawks, WHL (2013, 4th overall, Nashville) II

Seth Jones
Portland, WHL
Defenseman | Shoots Right
6' 4" / 205lbs
Born: October 3, 1994, Arlington, TX, USA
Hometown: Frisco, TX

North American Skater
FINAL RANK: 1 MIDTERM RANK: 1

Stats: http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=90355

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=671388

"He skates as well as anyone in the league, is smart and has all the potential there is to becoming one of the top [defensemen] in the NHL one day," - Peter Sullivan, Central Scouting

"I'm kind of speechless...He's got that wonderful combination of athletic ability, hockey sense, size and character. When you get all of that in one package, it's pretty hard to find a better prospect. I know this kid very well, know his leadership abilities and calmness under pressure, his confidence level and upside. He's a very rare U.S. talent." - Tim Taylor, USA Hockey

"I love the big stage and playing in the big games...You have to enjoy the position. I know a lot of people would enjoy being where I am, so I'm thankful for everything I have right now.

"There's really nothing that ever makes me uncomfortable or nervous...Everyone is going to make mistakes, but I think it's a challenge to go outside your comfort zone and to be the best you can be. Off the ice, I might get asked the same question over and over [by the media], but I'm always trying to find a different answer and different ways of approaching those topics." - Seth Jones
​

Gare Joyce ‏@GareJoyceNHL 1h
#NHL #draft cont. On S Jones, sr scout sez: "Don't see hockey sense, not even bit of edge, wonder about attitude, v avg interview @ combine"


Gare Joyce Gare Joyce ‏@GareJoyceNHL 1h
Spoke to 3 sr scouts Mon., none w Seth Jones @ #1, 2 don't have SJ @ #2 & one has him #4 behind Barkov ("not sold on him, see Erik Johnson")

 

[1Gold Standard]

Ya I read that quotes of GareJoyceNHL. And while I've never been a draft Jones #1, but that critique was a bit harsh.

Even more harsh was the critique on Nichushkin. Some scouts actually laughed at Nichushkin quitting on tests... poor interview.

Originally Posted by Mathletic
Gare Joyce ‏@GareJoyceNHL 1h
#NHL #draft cont. On S Jones, sr scout sez: "Don't see hockey sense, not even bit of edge, wonder about attitude, v avg interview @ combine"


Gare Joyce Gare Joyce ‏@GareJoyceNHL 1h
Spoke to 3 sr scouts Mon., none w Seth Jones @ #1, 2 don't have SJ @ #2 & one has him #4 behind Barkov ("not sold on him, see Erik Johnson")

 

[AmericanDream]

I am still laughing how anyone takes Gare Joyce seriously...

I love how these "scouts" are giving Gare their rankings of players like they are willing to lose their job over telling this guy who they like or do not like..I call 100% bs there. And the sr scout who "sez" was probably from Boston (a team with no chance in hell of drafting Jones)....

I am also beyond confused about his hockey sense and not a bit of edge...apparently every 6'4 dman should be Chris Pronger...hockey sense isn't an issue at all, did they have a pick up game at the combine?? and his lack of edge never concerned me or many people prior, players that are skilled on both sides of the puck like Duncan Keith do not need to be physical, same applies to Jones.

If Jones doesn't go #1 overall it isn't because of much of anything this guy is saying here...I think forwards are the sexier pick and develop faster, if Drouin and Mackinnon are close in talent I can see either or both going ahead of Jones for the sole reason of getting a player who can contribute right away offensively to your team.

I actually do not want to see Jones go #1 overall as I just don't like the track record and pressure that comes from a dman going #1 overall. Completely fine with those 2 Canadian kids going ahead of Jones which should make KevyD throw up another smiley face!

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

Completely fine with those 2 Canadian kids going ahead of Jones which should make KevyD throw up another smiley face!

Actually, 5 of them.

I actually do not want to see Jones go #1 overall as I just don't like the track record and pressure that comes from a dman going #1 overall.

+

Rabid Ranger in SJ I...

"I also have no problem with the notion that Jones is down a few pegs on a few teams' lists. There is really no consensus #1 in this draft and I can see the appeal of a dynamic foward like MacKinnon or Drouin."

I am just glad to see more and more posters coming around to my way of thinking.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

I had the last word in the Seth Jones I. Somehow, that seems... right.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

I am still laughing how anyone takes Gare Joyce seriously...

I love how these "scouts" are giving Gare their rankings of players like they are willing to lose their job over telling this guy who they like or do not like..I call 100% bs there. And the sr scout who "sez" was probably from Boston (a team with no chance in hell of drafting Jones)....

I am also beyond confused about his hockey sense and not a bit of edge...apparently every 6'4 dman should be Chris Pronger...hockey sense isn't an issue at all, did they have a pick up game at the combine?? and his lack of edge never concerned me or many people prior, players that are skilled on both sides of the puck like Duncan Keith do not need to be physical, same applies to Jones.

If Jones doesn't go #1 overall it isn't because of much of anything this guy is saying here...I think forwards are the sexier pick and develop faster, if Drouin and Mackinnon are close in talent I can see either or both going ahead of Jones for the sole reason of getting a player who can contribute right away offensively to your team.

I actually do not want to see Jones go #1 overall as I just don't like the track record and pressure that comes from a dman going #1 overall. Completely fine with those 2 Canadian kids going ahead of Jones which should make KevyD throw up another smiley face!

fwiw, joyce wrote a fascinating book about the, i think, '97 (or 98?) draft...which i really like.

with that said, if the Hawks were picking #1 i'd tell them the BPA is Jones...and I wouldn't be worried re picking a D-Man #1.

also - slightly o/t - but i know that a lot of the american posters (who follow US jr hockey) think that everyone in Canada is totally ignorant re the US hockey...and believes that only Canada is great, etc. To be fair to people in Canada - if you are interested in US players it takes a lot of effort to find out information re prospects...the only jr hockey you see up here is CHL. So, i'm just saying that some of us are genuinely interested in US prospects...but it's just not so easy to see them play!

 

[hototogisu]

fwiw, joyce wrote a fascinating book about the, i think, '97 (or 98?) draft...which i really like.

2006 draft, actually.

In fact you can use that book as a cautionary tale against taking what comes out of the combine too seriously. If you read Future Greats, you would think Kessel was the worst prospect of all time - terrible fitness, terrible interview. 7 years later - pretty darn good NHLer.

It's not that I don't take Joyce seriously, but people shouldn't be mixing up journalism with scouting. And if scouts are using Joyce as a mouthpiece to throw some mud on players to try to ensure they'll be around when their team picks...well, just another thing to be cautious of.

 

[R S]

2006 draft, actually.

In fact you can use that book as a cautionary tale against taking what comes out of the combine too seriously. If you read Future Greats, you would think Kessel was the worst prospect of all time - terrible fitness, terrible interview. 7 years later - pretty darn good NHLer.

It's not that I don't take Joyce seriously, but people shouldn't be mixing up journalism with scouting. And if scouts are using Joyce as a mouthpiece to throw some mud on players to try to ensure they'll be around when their team picks...well, just another thing to be cautious of.

This. Exactly what I said yesterday on the Avs board when those tweets got fans all up in arms.

 

[rocky7]

i haven't seen him play a lot, but from what i have seen, i find jones to be over-hyped. just haven't been that impressed. overrated imo.

but, i hope the avalanche draft him and it works out for them.

 

[Avs For Life]

i haven't seen him play a lot, but from what i have seen, i find jones to be over-hyped. just haven't been that impressed. overrated imo.

but, i hope the avalanche draft him and it works out for them.

If you are like me and only saw him play in the Memorial Cup, he did seem overhyped a bit...HOWEVER, I think he was probably tired. He played 92 games this year which is the most he has played iirc.

I honestly think we saw a Seth Jones that was not 100% on top of his game at the Memorial Cup. Unfortunately that is all some of us have to go on at this point. If he played like that all season and in the WJC he wouldnt have been the top prospect IMO...So we missed out on the games he was truly impressive in.

 

[R S]

If you are like me and only saw him play in the Memorial Cup, he did seem overhyped a bit...HOWEVER, I think he was probably tired. He played 92 games this year which is the most he has played iirc.

I honestly think we saw a Seth Jones that was not 100% on top of his game at the Memorial Cup. Unfortunately that is all some of us have to go on at this point. If he played like that all season and in the WJC he wouldnt have been the top prospect IMO...So we missed out on the games he was truly impressive in.

But even if the Memorial Cup was all you saw of him, he still had moments in the event that were extremely impressive. He had at least a pair of games where he was a complete standout, especially offensively.

 

[AlowlyMcOilersfan]

Let Jones fall to seven.

 

[irunthepeg]

He should fall to the Jets and reunite with his WJC Gold-winning buddy, Trouba.

 

[Avs For Life]

But even if the Memorial Cup was all you saw of him, he still had moments in the event that were extremely impressive. He had at least a pair of games where he was a complete standout, especially offensively.

I was only really able to watch the two games against Halifax, and like I have said in the Avs threads, I saw flashes of pure brilliance. He had some great defensive plays and he can finish in the offensive zone like a forward.

He looked tired to me, and I am not holding that against him. I dont have the sample size that others have so I will leave it to the Avs management to make the right call on which player to draft. I can say, the talent is there and I just wish I could see more of him than what is in some highlight reel on youtube.

RS You have seen a lot more of him than I have, and I trust all the information that you have brought us. Whether we draft Jones or Mack, I think the Avs will be getting a heck of a young player. One just may take a couple years longer to reach his peak.

 

[S E P H]

If you are like me and only saw him play in the Memorial Cup, he did seem overhyped a bit...HOWEVER, I think he was probably tired. He played 92 games this year which is the most he has played iirc.

I honestly think we saw a Seth Jones that was not 100% on top of his game at the Memorial Cup. Unfortunately that is all some of us have to go on at this point. If he played like that all season and in the WJC he wouldnt have been the top prospect IMO...So we missed out on the games he was truly impressive in.

Only in one game did he look good (it was either against London or Saskatoon) and still came away with 4 points in five games and a +6. I think the whole Winterhawks team didn't look 100% besides their first line. The defensive core was below average and their 2nd and 3rd lines only had two to five goals all memorial cup long when they dominated the regular season and playoffs.

 

[AwesomePanthers]

Ya I read that quotes of GareJoyceNHL. And while I've never been a draft Jones #1, but that critique was a bit harsh.

Even more harsh was the critique on Nichushkin. Some scouts actually laughed at Nichushkin quitting on tests... poor interview.

Originally Posted by Mathletic
Gare Joyce ‏@GareJoyceNHL 1h
#NHL #draft cont. On S Jones, sr scout sez: "Don't see hockey sense, not even bit of edge, wonder about attitude, v avg interview @ combine"


Gare Joyce Gare Joyce ‏@GareJoyceNHL 1h
Spoke to 3 sr scouts Mon., none w Seth Jones @ #1, 2 don't have SJ @ #2 & one has him #4 behind Barkov ("not sold on him, see Erik Johnson")

Not sure if trust this guy about Jones. He could probably ask the next seven scouts, and most of them would have Jones #1. IMO MacKinnon is the BPA, but Bob says still most scout believe Jones is #1 even after the Memorial Cup.

The thing that Joyce said that made me scratch my head the most is questions about Jones attitude. If there is one prospect without questionable attitude its Jones IMO, he really seems down to earth and well spoken. And its wrong to label Jones because Johnson didn't turn out great.

I don't see how Avs can pass up Jones when he plays the position they need and is a hometown boy. The only way the Avs pick MacKinnon over Jones, is if they think Nate is the best player by a significant margin.

 

[R S]

Not sure if trust this guy about Jones. He could probably ask the next seven scouts, and most of them would have Jones #1. IMO MacKinnon is the BPA, but Bob says still most scout believe Jones is #1 even after the Memorial Cup.

The thing that Joyce said that made me scratch my head the most is questions about Jones attitude. If there is one prospect without questionable attitude its Jones IMO, he really seems down to earth and well spoken. And its wrong to label Jones because Johnson didn't turn out great.

I don't see how Avs can pass up Jones when he plays the position they need and is a hometown boy. The only way the Avs pick MacKinnon over Jones, is if they think Nate is the best player by a significant margin.

Or if they get a fantastic offer on Paul Stastny, allowing them to get rid of the potential log-jam they would have at C if they drafted MacKinnon.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Not sure if trust this guy about Jones. He could probably ask the next seven scouts, and most of them would have Jones #1. IMO MacKinnon is the BPA, but Bob says still most scout believe Jones is #1 even after the Memorial Cup.

The thing that Joyce said that made me scratch my head the most is questions about Jones attitude. If there is one prospect without questionable attitude its Jones IMO, he really seems down to earth and well spoken. And its wrong to label Jones because Johnson didn't turn out great.

I don't see how Avs can pass up Jones when he plays the position they need and is a hometown boy. The only way the Avs pick MacKinnon over Jones, is if they think Nate is the best player by a significant margin.

Why do you consider him a hometown boy. He lived one year in Denver and the extent of Sakic's mentoring was telling Jones Sr. get the kid in power-skating. This Denver connection is way overblown...

I will say this though, I don't buy the whole "questionable attitude" thing... the child of a professional athlete knows a thing or two about personal commitment to training etc.

but my philosophy doesn't change, I'd never draft a D-man number 1.

 

[pb1300]

Or if they get a fantastic offer on Paul Stastny, allowing them to get rid of the potential log-jam they would have at C if they drafted MacKinnon.

I keep hearing how the Avs will be able to get a great offer for Stats, but is that really the case? I just dont see it, when I consider he has averaged only 55 points the past two seasons, will be paid $6.6 million next season, which is his last before hitting free agency. I think in order for them to really upgrade the defense, and draft Mac, they need to move Duchene, which is far less likely. They wont move Landeskog, and cant move ROR, so I cant see how they upgrade the defense, if they dont draft Jones.