OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Congrats to the Houston Cheaters on their win

  • Work is still on-going to rebuild the site styling and features. Please report any issues you may experience so we can look into it. Click Here for Updates
Status
Not open for further replies.
It's beginning to feel like 8 years @ a hundred mil is a good move. He's making some nice progress the last week. Loving the attitude so far as well, something I have been more concerned about previously.


That's going to go all around the world. An all-time great teenage troll job.

Almost felt bad for Bob. Almost.

Let's see how the rest of the year plays out but yeah, as it stands, I'd wager offering Cruz an 8ish year deal will very likely happen. How much? With Nutting, who the hell knows. If he continues to grow this year, you're talking about a guy who's a 40/120 player. I mean right now, even w/the lower BA, he's still 30+ HR/110 RBI's over a full season. While playing very strong defense at SS.

Either way, unless he really regresses, extending him is probably the most important thing we can do this winter, for numerous reasons.

And yeah, that kid is already gaining huge steam. Saw they're trying to get him on the Pat McAfee show, which isn't exactly a small podcast.

Nutting did a hard double take as well haha. Best part of that entire sequence. Bob seeing it clearly the 2nd look and then having to smile through his disdain for the camera.
 
Although the more I think about it, the more I wonder if the age aspect matters more than I thought it did. Cruz will be 24 at the end of this year, and there isn't a ton of a precedent for rookies of that age getting monster contracts.

Paul DeJong had an .857 OPS in 2017 and finished with 2.7 WAR in 108 games as a 23 year old. That next off-season, he signed a 6 year, $26 million deal that ate up 2 pre-arb years and 4 arbitration years. He didn't have nearly amount of hype as Cruz obviously, but he signed that deal when he was 24 and coming off a great rookie season. It's the same thing with Brandon Lowe, the Rays signed him to a 6 year, $24 million deal after he had a .774 OPS in 43 games in 2018 as a 23 year old.

Does that mean you can get Cruz for that cheap? Of course not. But I'm not sure I'd jump to the Albies and Francos of the world to draw direct comparisons for Cruz when you can point at guys like DeJong and Lowe who you can argue are more comparable based on age.

I think the DeJong and Lowe deals would probably correspond to about an 8 year, $55 million type of deal if they were eating up UFA years (instead of all pre-arb or arb years). So if those guys are coming in around that and Albies and Franco are coming in around 8 years at $100 million, could you get Cruz for 8 years at $80 million? It's about the middle for those two and it accounts for Cruz's upside that DeJong/Lowe didn't have while being older than Franco/Albies.
 
Last edited:
The Cruz homer really reminded me of this Pedro Alvarez homer in 2012. For some reason I still remember it. The Pirates lost that game to the Giants but Pedro hit a bomb off a lefty...434 feet.

I can't find the video! But for some reason it's still seared in my memory.

 
TBH I'd be more persuaded by Castillo hitting a gap anywhere versus a homer. We know he can hit homers especially in a park with a smaller LF-LCF.

Look where that ball lands. 0:08 seconds, slow motion you can see the ball above the roof landing on the far side. That would be an easy dinger in any park, especially being down the line.

I definitely felt he had too much of an upper cut path, and you could see that play out in his batted balls. Obviously some pop. Hopefully he can find a bit more balance at the dish. I certainly think he could at least carve himself a bench role, even if the bat doesn't get much better.
 
Power/Speed combo ceiling is as high as you can get. He can do A LOT of damage even as a .230-.240 guy. Just cut back on the K's a bit. Ideally you'd see the walk rate tick up as well. Either way, the post AS version is already popping, bursting at the seems even. Just on pure, raw, talent, he's their best player, easily. Even Reynolds is a full tier below.

 
Also on a 16 game hit streak. Definitely a bat to keep an eye on it seems moving forward. Would imagine he starts next year in AA as a young 21 year old.


Dariel was the last prospect I ever got excited about in the DSL a few years back, before that study came out that refuted any connection between DSL success and making it to the Bigs

The dude just crushed it in the Caribbean. Still, I've never really gotten a feel for him as a prospect. He's on that long long list I have of lottery tickets with good ceilings. If he can figure out the arm errors, the glove plays @ 3rd though, that seems obvious.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ImporterExporter
Does anyone here buy mlb.tv? It’s on sale for $25 for the rest of the season and my previous way of watching has been unreliable lately. I am watching tonight’s game as the free game tonight and it seems pretty cool, but wondering if it is reliable

You're outside the Pirates viewing area? I think all the games are blacked out if you are not.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dogthateats
Some kind of Cruz extension would change the dynamic of the ownership narrative, IMO. There's definitely some risk involved in any kind of lengthy extension, such that I think for that and others reason, it won't happen, but the excitement of a young player who storms on the scene and then is made into a face of the franchise in short order is how you get people everywhere to shut up about you being a farm team for their stars.

The nature of any contract would be hard to predict because of his current age, as people have already mentioned. If he's 20 or 21, then based on the standard way people look at things, you have to do some kind of contract in order to get prime years of the age 26/27 seasons. As it stands right now, that's Arb 1 and Arb 2 for him, and while those could get expensive if everything starts clicking for him, it's still not going to break the bank entirely.

From the Pirates perspective, a big contract this offseason would be the best time to do it, since the two additional TC, league minimum years give you a fair amount of leverage. I think they are very risk adverse but also that longer contracts early in players' careers tend to favor the team pretty strongly. In the end, I am pretty skeptical that we'll make a serious attempt, but I think the most optimistic thing we might try to do is gauge his interest on a 7 year deal in the offseason. That would buy out two FA years and also coincide with the final guaranteed year of Hayes' contract (2030). I'm not sure it would be enough to lure Cruz, but there is some upside to pretty enormous raises over league minimum for two years, I would think.

This is obviously a loaded comparison to reach for, but if Cruz took that kind of contact, he would hit free agency at the same age that Judge is going to hit free agency. If he's a regular 35+ HR guy, he's still got potential for a second big contract, and his value only levels off some if he ends up becoming a DH or just gets hurt. I think he's too athletic to become a DH, even if he moves off shortstop as he approaches his late 20s. There are also a lot of ways that a player never hits free agency in the right way, so I see a guaranteed contact as potentially appealing to him, but it has seemed like the Pirates move slowly with these kinds of decisions. I'd like to be pleasantly surprised, but I bet after just three months of a rookie year, we'll try to engage with a bargain offer and see what happens. Maybe things get really weird if he does something ridiculous like pushes for 20-25 HRs, which I don't think is as insane as it sounds if his contact rate keeps inching up, but ultimately I struggle to see it happen.

For me, the bare minimum bar this winter is seriously approaching Reynolds and getting his contract situation under control. There is no strategic upside to entering next spring training without an extension worked out, because at that point it would have been better to deal him already, and not just at the 2022 winter meetings, but probably at the 2021 deadline. The alternative is tension-laden arbitration meetings for two years and trade rumors, which didn't seem to be great for him. They could play it out and then give him the qualifying offer eventually, but the better path would be to just commit to him as a building block and then get some better supplementary talent in for the immediate future as a bridge to Davis, Priester, and anyone else who might be able to help in 2023.
 
Does anyone here buy mlb.tv? It’s on sale for $25 for the rest of the season and my previous way of watching has been unreliable lately. I am watching tonight’s game as the free game tonight and it seems pretty cool, but wondering if it is reliable
I do and I regularly watch two games at the same time. Never had a problem with it.

I use a Roku TV, a Samsung TV and my old laptop. It sometimes lag on my laptop, but it is because it is crap. I used it on a work laptop when working from home and it works like a charm.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dogthateats
Even as a future right fielder (which he is) Cruz has the tools of a 200 million dollar player. If he’s willing to sign for 100 you do it yesterday. The dude has 40+ homerun power and that’s even if baseball switches from tightly wound baseballs to old balled up socks. He’s a 4 1/2 tool player with the potential to develop a better hitting approach.
 
Even as a future right fielder (which he is) Cruz has the tools of a 200 million dollar player. If he’s willing to sign for 100 you do it yesterday. The dude has 40+ homerun power and that’s even if baseball switches from tightly wound baseballs to old balled up socks. He’s a 4 1/2 tool player with the potential to develop a better hitting approach.

I don't see what the rush is though. And I want him to be motivated.

Maybe for goodwill the team could buy his league min and 1-2 arb years though. Something like 4/$20 (nice). Not unlike what they just did with Reynolds.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Scandale du Jour
It doesn't make sense to buy out the arb years unless you just do the whole swath, because the structure gives crazy leverage to the team due to the league min years. I think they will wait, or see if he would take a low deal for the guaranteed money. It fits the pattern of what they tried to do with Hayes and Reynolds and without getting too far into stereotyping DR players, I am sure a low offer might stand to be more appealing and be more life-changing in terms of the money for him.

I think they won't rush into anything. His game is still prone to streakiness occasionally, though I will say that I think he's played somewhere around his floor in the early going and he was still productive and more than adequate defensively. Without getting way into it, it's definitely possible that opposing pitchers will really punch back, and that in general he might be up and down throughout the next year. I think he's getting more and more comfortable and settling into his game, which is good, because it will give him a baseline from which to work off of when pitchers gameplan him more. I still don't really think he has obvious problems in his swing or anything like that, and he also knows the strike zone well. His chases are more the product of aggression than they are getting out of sorts and going up there hacking. The Ks are starting to go down and he's pulling the ball, which are positive signs.

I wouldn't hesitate to sign him, but I think the focus this offseason will be on Reynolds and perhaps some stuff that was laid at the deadline, as well as hopefully the acquisition of a mid-level FA or two.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ChaosAgent
I don't see what the rush is though. And I want him to be motivated.

Maybe for goodwill the team could buy his league min and 1-2 arb years though. Something like 4/$20 (nice). Not unlike what they just did with Reynolds.
I agree. There’s no reason to rush it. And we are a team that can’t afford to make a bad bet. polanco taught us that. I honestly think the best bet is to have him go the same route as Soto (although he Wouldn’t be as valuable). Compete with him and then look to flip him for upper level prospects and restock the major league team. It’s how the Rays compete.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ChaosAgent
Turned on the Pirates game as Greg Brown was going on about Cruz just hit the 7th hardest exit velo this year. I thought he hit one in the river, so I anxious to see the replay, so they showed it, it was a single. It was worth a little chuckle on my part.
 
Thompson was solid I thought, just left two breakers in bad places.

I really don't like taking him out right here. His pitch count is fine, and while in theory it might be good game management, we have already won the series, wins and losses don't matter at all, and the bullpen has already been worked pretty hard this week, with no off day on the horizon for over a week. He could have easily gotten through the 6th, and maybe even into the 7th. Stout is a fresh arm and I'm sure we'll cycle a lot of options, but just let him stay in the game and see if he can turn in a QS.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad