Raspewtin
Stay at home defenseman hater
- May 30, 2013
- 44,300
- 21,901
It's not even a question, they'll both get worse contracts than Clarkson.
Trade them both.
-
Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
It's not even a question, they'll both get worse contracts than Clarkson.
Trade them both.
Shadowtron
Registered User
It was infuriating to watch them after the first 2 Cap goals. You could actually see the players downshift...as though they feel the same way as we do: If the other team scores two, pack it up and go home cus the game is outta reach.
A question that I have been asking for most of the season is that does a team that was 1) regarded as one of the hardest working & 2) regarded as one of the most hardest to play against go to what is 1) one of the laziest & 2) one of the softest and easiest to play against?
This happened almost over night. And don't tell me that the showed the same lack of effort and under Torts. That is just not true.
What happened seemingly over night? How do these guys now resemble the squads that preened on the ice during the dark years?
We should ABSOLUTELY be sellers at the dealine....with all of the mediocrity looking for raises. Yeah, no thanks.
Rebuild time...
Rebuild time...
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
I have long maintained that a team takes it's cues from the top. Our GM is sloppy, lazy and has spent millions of dollars for a shortcut to success. That laziness has filtered down to the team. Maybe Torts' greatest success was serving as a buffer and demanding and getting more out of his teams.
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
With the amount of expiring contracts, I am terrified by what we might see this summer with this regime.
Two years ago, this was one of the youngest and hardest working teams in the league. And now rebuild talks again?
Agreed. I have maintained that while the players may have chaffed under the yoke, they still played exactly they way that he wanted them to. Because if they did not, then they did not play.
Now, that is gone. And we are seeing a return of the NYRCC.
LORDE
I am Lorde, YA YA YA
See... if we trade everyone, including the Statue of Liberty... but the culture doesn't change... then what's the damn point!?!
We're back to the NYRCC... should we play golf or tennis?
We're back to the NYRCC... should we play golf or tennis?
LORDE
I am Lorde, YA YA YA
Those two things aren't mutually exclusive.
The culture DOES need to change
The personnel DOES need to change, also
We all know Sather is the problem, but that's not gonna change ever.
Then, chances are, nothing ever is going to change. Sather's methods have not changed. No reason to expect him to change now. Tortarella seems to have been the mitigating factor that blocked that off, as Singin' pointed out. And Sather's hiring choices make him see to be the exception and not the rule. Just like the hardworking team under him seems to have been the exception and not the rule for a team during the Sather watch.
Shadowtron
Registered User
I was watching a video about Tie Domi, and he was talking about early in his career as a Ranger, when he was riding his stick after a goal or clowning around after a fight. He was booted from the game one night. When the period ended Messier pulled him into a training room and told him "enough is enough, no more of that **** you do after goals and fights" and that if he didn't respect his peers he'd never get respect in this league.
That's the type of player the Ranger needs. A guy who can come into the room and own it and tell the players what the score is. They need a Messier...if he exists. Someone who can pull these guys together and get them playing for the front of the jersey again. Enough of these deals for talented, but extremely heartless goal scorers. We're never going to win anything with players like Gaborik or Nash leading us. Can you imagine either one of these two staring down a 3-2 Devils lead in the Conference Finals in '94.
Unfortunately i don't know who that player is in today's game or if he's available. It's just a musing as I watch this team circle the drain.
I think that Singin' has it right. Tone from the top. Under Sather, it has been poisonous. Somehow, against all odds, Torts managed to mitigate it by making the team HIS. 100%. The chances of Jackass hiring another such mitigating factors) is very low. So until the head changes, the body will follow.
Think about it. Take out the Tortarella years, and the types of players that have hit the ice have been similar. As have the styles of play. As have the results. Things started to change under Renney, but not enough. Torts took the team in a different direction by establishing a specific identity.
Largely, Sather, when left to his own devices, has iced similar teams that play in similar ways with similar results.
And we Rangers fans discuss it in similar ways. Substitute the names of today for the names of 1997, and we are having the same conversations.
pld459666
Registered User
Two years ago seems like 5 years ago.
that team seems like it has been gone a long time.
I agree with the guy you quoted.
It's time to rebuild and that needs to start with the GM.
Take Gorton and Clarke with him while he's at it.
They need to accept as much blame here as Sather.
For all the talk about "charachter" in draft picks, this team is awfully soft mentally.
We got, what we got!
If we take a look at the positive things so far this season: Zucc and KC are developing there game from last season, Richards look much better than last year, mcd is now a top d-man in the league, staal is back. I put Stephan here to (I think he has develop, but not that much as zucc and kc) talbot (looking good)
preformenc that we expect: Nash is Nash (slow starts because he´s injury), straalman is the same, boyle and dorsett is the same (can´t expect more from those two) d moore and falk (what did we expect from those two?)
Players who will come as the season goes: Cally and Hags (I think they will come, slow starts because of there shoulder injures), DanG is not playing at the same level as he did last season, but he will come. I think the king will come as the season goes to (he´s not been that good, that we need him to be)
The bad ones (replace): brassard, poo, pyatt, mdz, j moore.
We need more grit to the team. At the same time we need to remember that we are under a change from torts system to av´s.
If we take a look at the positive things so far this season: Zucc and KC are developing there game from last season, Richards look much better than last year, mcd is now a top d-man in the league, staal is back. I put Stephan here to (I think he has develop, but not that much as zucc and kc) talbot (looking good)
preformenc that we expect: Nash is Nash (slow starts because he´s injury), straalman is the same, boyle and dorsett is the same (can´t expect more from those two) d moore and falk (what did we expect from those two?)
Players who will come as the season goes: Cally and Hags (I think they will come, slow starts because of there shoulder injures), DanG is not playing at the same level as he did last season, but he will come. I think the king will come as the season goes to (he´s not been that good, that we need him to be)
The bad ones (replace): brassard, poo, pyatt, mdz, j moore.
We need more grit to the team. At the same time we need to remember that we are under a change from torts system to av´s.
THIS AGAIN???
How does a system change lead to a lazy, gutless, putrid on ice product?
I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss him. This is the only player that showed up during the playoffs, last year. Torts had him playing at his best. He's regressed under AV, this year. Maybe Arniel being here, who knows? But I do like him, and think he could still be an important player for us.
Because people knew that they would get SCREAMED at if they got lazy. People don't like to be screamed at. Torts got all he could from those guys, but eventually, it wore thin.
Now, we are one of the softest teams in the league.
There is a mixture of liquids here that lead to this drink tasting so sour.
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
That's the problem.
Zucc and Kreider have been the few positives.
It really doesn't matter what Richards does as he's gone this summer regardless.
Staal is far from back.
Stepan needs to be more consistent. Too quick to label him a #1 center.
Talbot has played 9 career games.
A lot of lowering the bar here.
A lot of ifs here.
Or they simply have shown what they have been for most of their careers — inconsistent.
Only for the last decade.
It's not the coach or the system. Transitioning from Torts to AV doesn't explain the lack of intensity. There a lot of problems here and a very flawed lineup.
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
I'm not dismissing Brassard. I am seeing why he was available. And I'm not leaning toward the he is what he has always been and the idea that he "needed a change of scenery" is just a nice sound bight.
I don't know that it does. I remember a lot of the same complaints about the team last year as well, and Torts was the coach then. I really don't think AV is the cause of what we're seeing. I don't think he's helping exactly, but I also don't know what I'd expect from a coach in his position. I see the onus belonging much more to the players and management because I only remember one Rangers team that was tough to play against in the last decade and that was in 2011-12. Torts may have carried the flag of hard-nosed grinding hockey, but I also remember AV preaching crashing the net, going to the hard areas. I don't think the coach or the system should be the blame for how it's played. But I guess that's what you're saying too haha.
stan the caddy
Registered User
- Sep 27, 2011
- 2,360
- 281
I don't think the team is necessarily "lazy". I think they're sloppy and frustrated. Every defenseman has gotten worse in his own end in the new system, even McDonagh. If they sacrafice defense, they're supposed to get more offense but they're not.
NYR Viper
Registered User
The centers, collectively, don't skate well enough for this system. Same goes for most of the d-men outside of McDonagh and Moore. It's a speed and skating system. This is why players like Kreider, Zuccarello, Hagelin and Nash look good (Hagelin has looked good, but seems tentative).
stan the caddy
Registered User
- Sep 27, 2011
- 2,360
- 281
The forecheck isn't as agressive so guys like Callahan and Hagelin lose some responsibility. Hagelin looks fine he just doesn't get to use his speed as much. He was never a complete player.
You could definately tell Moore was a work in progress last year. A lot of times he was a little too hesitant to step up and knock his man off the puck. Some of those problems were masked by the collapse. Staal just doesn't look right, don't know if it's the system change. Girardi is clearly worse off in the new system. I don't see the point of him sticking around, it's just not a good fit. MDZ is MDZ, always a headcase but I thought he was fine last night.
Right now they aren't coaching to the player's strengths. I'm really afraid that we might have been spoiled from 2005 up until now. A few knee jerk reactions from the GM and we're back to being a running joke.
