Predators Hockey Discussion 22-23

[Predsanddead24]

We really can't afford to come out slow out of the gate after the All Star Break because the last 16 games of the season are going to be brutal. That stretch is all against teams currently in the playoff hunt so it is going to be tough to make up any ground there if we are on the outside looking in. On the flipside we have a relatively easy schedule through mid March so that is our chance to get a playoff spot.

We're playing as good of hockey as we have all season right now so that's a positive. Tomorrow night will be a big one for setting the tone going into the All Star Break.

 

[herzausstein]

Despite only getting 2 goals, I thought it was one of our better offensive games- tons of shots and chances and our expected goals for the game was over 5. We have not had many of those types of games this entire season.

Need to cash in on some of those chances, but still encouraging.

I agree. It was overall quite encouraging to watch. Wouldve had more shots had we of actually shot on a couple of those odd man scoring rushes instead of passing it until it was broken up but still a nice improvement. A close game where it felt like we had atleast a certain degree of control was nice.

On another note: just about everyone we have griped about not scoring finally scored over the last 2 games. Duchene, granlund, Joey, smith, and Jeannot. So who should we gripe about next? Trenin needs to score more and forsberg.

 

[Predsanddead24]

I agree. It was overall quite encouraging to watch. Wouldve had more shots had we of actually shot on a couple of those odd man scoring rushes instead of passing it until it was broken up but still a nice improvement. A close game where it felt like we had atleast a certain degree of control was nice.

On another note: just about everyone we have griped about not scoring finally scored over the last 2 games. Duchene, granlund, Joey, smith, and Jeannot. So who should we gripe about next? Trenin needs to score more and forsberg.

Well it is almost Filbruary

 

[101st_fan]

I agree. It was overall quite encouraging to watch. Wouldve had more shots had we of actually shot on a couple of those odd man scoring rushes instead of passing it until it was broken up but still a nice improvement. A close game where it felt like we had atleast a certain degree of control was nice.

On another note: just about everyone we have griped about not scoring finally scored over the last 2 games. Duchene, granlund, Joey, smith, and Jeannot. So who should we gripe about next? Trenin needs to score more and forsberg.

Saros. It’s a shame that Mason has more career goals than Jusse.

 

[predhead1]

Seems like something lit a fire under Joey last night. He was playing much faster and much more physically than he usually does for regular season games.

 

[hockey diva]

I would like to see the guys get called out every time they pass up an open shot. Review the film and have a rough number to give them. Obviously, I am not at ice level and don't see what they see. But, there should still be enough times that it might encourage them to shoot more...

 

[GoldOnGold]

Despite only getting 2 goals, I thought it was one of our better offensive games- tons of shots and chances and our expected goals for the game was over 5. We have not had many of those types of games this entire season.

Need to cash in on some of those chances, but still encouraging.

I thought the same thing, we had lots of pressure and zone-time.

Moneypuck says we had 5.25 expected goals too, so advanced stats match the eye-test.

MoneyPuck.com

Real Time Hockey Win Probabilities In Game

moneypuck.com

 

[Flgatorguy87]

Some comments I found interesting this morning from Hynes on his weekly radio spot with 102.5.

They brought up Glass and the difference between now and early in the year. I know the consensus around here has been Glass got pulled and demoted because he made mistakes and got the quick hook. I bought into that logic as well because that's kind of what we thought played out. Hynes basically said he lacked confidence to play in the top 6 early on and was pulling himself off the ice if he got caught in a change he didn't feel he could win and was shortening his shifts to avoid certain matchups. Hynes said they talked through it and tried to give him confidence to know that he can play with anybody when he is playing well.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Some comments I found interesting this morning from Hynes on his weekly radio spot with 102.5.

They brought up Glass and the difference between now and early in the year. I know the consensus around here has been Glass got pulled and demoted because he made mistakes and got the quick hook. I bought into that logic as well because that's kind of what we thought played out. Hynes basically said he lacked confidence to play in the top 6 early on and was pulling himself off the ice if he got caught in a change he didn't feel he could win and was shortening his shifts to avoid certain matchups. Hynes said they talked through it and tried to give him confidence to know that he can play with anybody when he is playing well.

Hynes always seems to say stuff like that to rationalize his decisions, though. Earlier on I tended to believe him. Now... well, I suspect he's seeing things his way, but not at all sure that would match with the player's perspective.

 

[Flgatorguy87]

Hynes always seems to say stuff like that to rationalize his decisions, though. Earlier on I tended to believe him. Now... well, I suspect he's seeing things his way, but not at all sure that would match with the player's perspective.

It's possible I guess.

My perspective listening to it, I believed him. I think if what you are saying is true, then he would be at risk of losing the locker-room and credibility from a player perspective.

 

[Kat Predator]

It's possible I guess.

My perspective listening to it, I believed him. I think if what you are saying is true, then he would be at risk of losing the locker-room and credibility from a player perspective.

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

The part that doesn't add up from Hynes' take is Glass sitting in the stands and not playing at all. Even if he has some anxiety issues about certain matchups, it's really hard to follow how a guy who's spent his entire life to get to the NHL would put himself in the press box and not want to play at all. And if this issue was that bad, it's not believable that a few chats with the boss are going to fix something that sounds clinical.

Another aspect is that Eeli Tolvanen tells a similar story of playing with trepidation and uncertainty as to what was really expected.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

And let the tying of ones self in knots begin.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

It's possible I guess.

My perspective listening to it, I believed him. I think if what you are saying is true, then he would be at risk of losing the locker-room and credibility from a player perspective.

Yes?

 

[Flgatorguy87]

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

The part that doesn't add up from Hynes' take is Glass sitting in the stands and not playing at all. Even if he has some anxiety issues about certain matchups, it's really hard to follow how a guy who's spent his entire life to get to the NHL would put himself in the press box and not want to play at all. And if this issue was that bad, it's not believable that a few chats with the boss are going to fix something that sounds clinical.

Another aspect is that Eeli Tolvanen tells a similar story of playing with trepidation and uncertainty as to what was really expected.

Not playing at all does not equal him being concerned he was going to be outmatched versus certain lines. If he's playing scared of his matchups he's been given then I am not surprised he spent time in the press box. I don't play hockey, but that sounds very believable to want to avoid a situation you don't think you are ready for yet. It's also believable that improving on something could be as simple as trusting your ability and playing through it. I guess we disagree on that. Sometimes you aren't sure you can do something until you've successfully done it.

I know Hynes doesn't get the benefit of the doubt from many around here, but if we are looking back at how things transpired with Glass, wouldn't we say that it appears to have gone well?

I am certainly not a Hynes apologist, but I don't believe in shitting on guys just to move my agenda.

 

[Kat Predator]

Not playing at all does not equal him being concerned

improving on something could be as simple as trusting your ability and playing through it.

These two things are polar opposite.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Not playing at all does not equal him being concerned he was going to be outmatched versus certain lines. If he's playing scared of his matchups he's been given then I am not surprised he spent time in the press box. I don't play hockey, but that sounds very believable to want to avoid a situation you don't think you are ready for yet. It's also believable that improving on something could be as simple as trusting your ability and playing through it. I guess we disagree on that. Sometimes you aren't sure you can do something until you've successfully done it.

I know Hynes doesn't get the benefit of the doubt from many around here, but if we are looking back at how things transpired with Glass, wouldn't we say that it appears to have gone well?

I am certainly not a Hynes apologist, but I don't believe in shitting on guys just to move my agenda.

I have never seen a kid who didn't want to play more and if anything probably thought they were a little better than they really are. They aren't saying they can't handle something, they are complaining that they aren't getting a chance. At least at competitive levels.

I don't believe Hynes has done well at all with Glass, because everything Glass is doing right now is exactly what he could have done from day one, had Hynes not screwed around with him.

It just reads to me like Hynes is rationalizing his own agenda. And I'm sure he's all very earnest and sincerely believes that's what he thinks happened. But I just think he's not very perceptive and the narrative that's running in his head is all he can really see. He thinks he's doing great things and has great ideas and is helping all the players to be their best and everything... but... the results on the ice never seem to back that up.

 

[Flgatorguy87]

Hynes sucks, sky is falling, no concept of nuance, I know everything that happens behind close doors and even more so than the coaches.

Blah, blah, blah, boring conversation that's been had over and over.

These two things are polar opposite.

way to chop up my quotes. You understand that something can be opposite and change in a season right.

Like if a player is playing poorly and then he isn't...that's the opposite?

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Hynes sucks, sky is falling, no concept of nuance, I know everything that happens behind close doors and even more so than the coaches.

Blah, blah, blah, boring conversation that's been had over and over.


way to chop up my quotes. You understand that something can be opposite and change in a season right.

Like if a player is playing poorly and then he isn't...that's the opposite?

But he wasn't playing poorly. He was just utilized poorly. He's playing exactly the same. Just utilized more properly more often now.

Meanwhile other players who were playing well (like Novak) aren't utilized in the ways that they were when they performed well. And we heard how they worked with Myers, yet he sucked anyway, and they tried Tolvanen in every possible position to see if he had anything to contribute. And Fabbro continues to get #6D minutes because what, they are trying to inspire him to take charge more or something. It's just an endless litany of rationalizations that don't stack up.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

Hynes sucks, sky is falling, no concept of nuance, I know everything that happens behind close doors and even more so than the coaches.

Blah, blah, blah, boring conversation that's been had over and over.


way to chop up my quotes. You understand that something can be opposite and change in a season right.

Like if a player is playing poorly and then he isn't...that's the opposite?

I've seen kids short shift themselves or not want to be in the starting lineup, and yes at competitive levels, because they aren't confident and its usually when they make a jump to a new level. It's not so much a fear of personal failure, they don't want to let their teammates down and it's something the coaches have to work through with the player. Maybe taking a few games off and talking to the sports psychologist is a thing in the NHL.

These aren't things that are unheard of when you're actually on a bench dealing with individuals.

 

[Flgatorguy87]

But he wasn't playing poorly. He was just utilized poorly. He's playing exactly the same. Just utilized more properly more often now.

All I will say to this is I am not an NHL coach. I have never been anything close to an NHL coach. If you feel confident in your ability to effectively evaluate an NHL player by watching a handful of games on TV then I would say you are talking to the wrong guy. I don't have enough confidence in myself to have that conversation.

As far as everything else goes with other players. I again am not a Hynes apologist or an NHL talent evaluator. The closest thing I can do to evaluate is just look at simple results and based on that I don't think he's good enough to put us into a contender status.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

All I will say to this is I am not an NHL coach. I have never been anything close to an NHL coach. If you feel confident in your ability to effectively evaluate an NHL player by watching a handful of games on TV then I would say you are talking to the wrong guy. I don't have enough confidence in myself to have that conversation.

As far as everything else goes with other players. I again am not a Hynes apologist or an NHL talent evaluator. The closest thing I can do to evaluate is just look at simple results and based on that I don't think he's good enough to put us into a contender status.

Like I said, I've just seen the same things enough with Hynes that I don't automatically believe his take anymore. I definitely fell for it at first too, he talks a good talk. But then when the cases and the objective evidence starts to pile up that he doesn't actually know what he's talking about and doesn't handle players well, I think it's fair to take these things with a huge grain of salt.

 

[Kat Predator]

Hynes sucks, sky is falling, no concept of nuance, I know everything that happens behind close doors and even more so than the coaches.

Blah, blah, blah, boring conversation that's been had over and over.

This isn't what I wrote. It's simply trying to frame what I wrote as something else.

In fact, what I wrote was explicitly about nuance. Hynes sees it his way. The players see it theirs. See? Nuance.

All I will say to this is I am not an NHL coach. I have never been anything close to an NHL coach. If you feel confident in your ability to effectively evaluate an NHL player by watching a handful of games on TV then I would say you are talking to the wrong guy. I don't have enough confidence in myself to have that conversation.

As far as everything else goes with other players. I again am not a Hynes apologist or an NHL talent evaluator. The closest thing I can do to evaluate is just look at simple results and based on that I don't think he's good enough to put us into a contender status.

On this we agree. Hynes doesn't have the results to back blindly supporting everything he does and says. We can understand that he would like to frame his decisions in the best possible light, and even believe he's probably a good person trying his best and is earnest in his views. But that doesn't mean we can't be a little skeptical or step back and gauge the context as a whole ... which unfortunately includes a lot of treading water if not outright backsliding in terms of the final product.

 

[Flgatorguy87]

This isn't what I wrote. It's simply trying to frame what I wrote as something else.

In fact, what I wrote was explicitly about nuance. Hynes sees it his way. The players see it theirs. See? Nuance.

My first statement was directed at the other poster. I seem to have lost their quote.

 

[Flgatorguy87]

I'll end the convo here. No sense in this dragging out.

 

[hockey diva]

Carrier out 4-6 weeks. Apparently the mugging he took Tuesday was pretty serious. I give him props for standing up for Glass but it was not a great decision to take on a heavyweight like Stanley.