Possible trade and roster fixes for the Wings, Part III

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

I consider a contender any team that has a reasonable chance at winning the cup, probably about 10 or so teams. I think the Wings fall into that category. We've seen many times before that seedings do not matter much once the playoffs start. You really don't think if Detroit didn't lose handfuls of there best players for large chunks of the season they would be among the top 5-7 teams in the NHL? I agree we shouldn't go all in at the trade deadline due to the concerns we may not get healthy enough but standing pat is sometimes the best move anyway. I firmly believe we are among the top 3 teams in the east if healthy.

I thought we'd be fighting for the 2nd-4th spot in our division like we currently are. The thing is that I could see us being ranked as high as 6th or 7th but also ranked as low as say 18th or 19th because all of the teams around us are so close that it can change any given night.

If we were 100% healthy, which I think is becoming more unrealistic as the days go by, I'd have us pegged as the #3 team in the east. The problem that I see is that once our kids, Jurco & Sheahan, hit the rookie wall we'll be in trouble if Datsyuk & Zetterberg don't come back healthy.

 

[JmanWingsFan]

You said there was no rhyme or reason to saying no to Jagr, so I gave you some reasons not to. Plenty in fact. Did you really need the rhyme as well?

Except, your reasoning is poor because from the start you are trying to argue that the Red Wings should pass up on one of the best forwards in the game right now, if he was available.

 

[Crymson]

Except, your reasoning is poor because from the start you are trying to argue that the Red Wings should pass up on one of the best forwards in the game right now, if he was available.

The Devils are currently three points out of a playoff spot, and they've got only four games left before the trade deadline. Even if they lose all four, they'll still be in the hunt. They won't be trading their best forward.

On an amusing but probably irrelevant note, the Devils' last game before the deadline and first game after it are both against the Wings.

 

[JmanWingsFan]

The Devils are currently three points out of a playoff spot, and they've got only four games left before the trade deadline. Even if they lose all four, they'll still be in the hunt. They won't be trading their best forward.

On an amusing but probably irrelevant note, the Devils' last game before the deadline and first game after it are both against the Wings.

I've stated this multiple times now. Jagr isn't available. But the fact that people want to pass on him if he was is ridiculous.

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

I've stated this multiple times now. Jagr isn't available. But the fact that people want to pass on him if he was is ridiculous.

I Pass on him because the value he would bring to us isn't worth the potential value we could get out of our 1st+ a prospect like Pulkkinen or Ferraro.

 

[jaster]

I've stated this multiple times now. Jagr isn't available. But the fact that people want to pass on him if he was is ridiculous.

You lack context in every post. People want to pass on him..... at what price? Everyone has a price. At what point is the price ridiculous? Is refusing to give up a 1st ridiculous? One of our top prospects? What's the most you are willing to give up for Jagr?

 

[The Zermanator]

I've stated this multiple times now. Jagr isn't available. But the fact that people want to pass on him if he was is ridiculous.

1. What do you give up for him? A first? Last year that would have been Mantha. You'd be giving up the 1st, the player that 1st would become and the potential years of contributions from that player for a few months of a 42 year old Jagr.

2. Where does he play when everyone's healthy? Does Nyquist get pushed down to 3rd line duties? Whatever you've gained by having Jagr you're losing something on Nyquist getting pushed down. We've already got Alfredsson (who's just as good, if not better, than Jagr at this point) filling that role.

3. As you mentioned earlier, it's true that many around here (myself included) have been persistent about wanting Holland to make a move but that doesn't mean we want him to make one for the sake of making one. If he's putting a package together for a top 2 defenseman or a top 3 forward then that's great. But giving up assets that will be valuable for many years for Jagr who will only be useful for a few months or a year is just wasteful.

You want to get Jagr now because you believe he'd help the team win in 2014. You're probably right, he certainly wouldn't hurt. But to acquire him, you'd be giving up assets that could help you win in 2016, 2017, 2018, etc. At this point in Jagr's career and at this point in the Red Wings organization, it's just not a good fit.

 

[Mister Ed]

With Zetterberg out (most likely for the year), I think the Wings should start looking for a solid C prospect. They have excess defenceman that they could trade for Pirri or someone else of that ilk. Jarnkrok is adjusting nicely from what I've heard and Athanasiou is tearing it up in the OHL lately, but still it would be nice to have some more talented centres in the pipelines, like a Strome, Zibanejad or T. Johnson.

 

[Vladdy84]

Time for Weiss to step up. Get Iron Hook up here. Need more speed.

 

[Mister Ed]

Time for Weiss to step up. Get Iron Hook up here. Need more speed.

Datsyuk with Weiss at LW, Jarnkrok, Sheahan and Helm would be a good mix of size, skill and toughness.

 

[InjuredChoker]

center. 6'3. RH.

should kenny be on him ?

 

[Vladdy84]

Datsyuk with Weiss at LW, Jarnkrok, Sheahan and Helm would be a good mix of size, skill and toughness.

Weiss-Datsyuk-Alfie
Mule-Jarnkrok-Nyquist
Tatar-Riley-Jurco
Gator-Helm-Miller

Perhaps bring up Pulk's if Mule or Weiss can't get back in the lineup.

Kids are the answer.

 

[JmanWingsFan]

I Pass on him because the value he would bring to us isn't worth the potential value we could get out of our 1st+ a prospect like Pulkkinen or Ferraro.

You lack context in every post. People want to pass on him..... at what price? Everyone has a price. At what point is the price ridiculous? Is refusing to give up a 1st ridiculous? One of our top prospects? What's the most you are willing to give up for Jagr?

I don't think you understand the concept of rentals. Rentals don't cost much in terms of assets. Why is this? Because rentals will likely only be on the team for half a season, and it's unfair to take valuable long term assets for another asset that won't be spending much time on the roster.

You're freaking out over Jagr. He won't command Pulkinnen or Ferraro. I don't even know why you're setting such a stupid high price for a rental, if he were to be available. The last time Jagr was traded, he netted a conditional first and two nobodies. That's the same price he would command on the trade market this year, because the market is already set.

1. What do you give up for him? A first? Last year that would have been Mantha. You'd be giving up the 1st, the player that 1st would become and the potential years of contributions from that player for a few months of a 42 year old Jagr.

This whole premise is based on the baseless assumption that another Anthony Mantha in a weaker draft year will be available to us in the draft. That's not fair at all. Mantha has been drafted already. We aren't getting another one of him. A Stanley Cup far outweighs anything you can get to the future. You could probably ask Buffalo Bills fans about winning a championship over sustained success and what that means to a fan.

2. Where does he play when everyone's healthy? Does Nyquist get pushed down to 3rd line duties? Whatever you've gained by having Jagr you're losing something on Nyquist getting pushed down. We've already got Alfredsson (who's just as good, if not better, than Jagr at this point) filling that role.

He plays on the wing. You trade some dead weight like the Sharks did last year and then he has a spot on the roster.

3. As you mentioned earlier, it's true that many around here (myself included) have been persistent about wanting Holland to make a move but that doesn't mean we want him to make one for the sake of making one. If he's putting a package together for a top 2 defenseman or a top 3 forward then that's great. But giving up assets that will be valuable for many years for Jagr who will only be useful for a few months or a year is just wasteful.

By this logic, every GM in the history of GM'ing has been wasteful because they acquired a rental player to take a shot at winning the championship and we all must be better than them even though we are all sitting on our bums typing about stuff and not GM'ing an NHL franchise.

 

[SoupNazi]

This whole premise is based on the baseless assumption that another Anthony Mantha in a weaker draft year will be available to us in the draft. That's not fair at all. Mantha has been drafted already. We aren't getting another one of him. A Stanley Cup far outweighs anything you can get to the future. You could probably ask Buffalo Bills fans about winning a championship over sustained success and what that means to a fan.

And if Zetterberg is out for any length of time, Jagr or not our Cup hopes are gone.

 

[bababooeyII]

Except, your reasoning is poor because from the start you are trying to argue that the Red Wings should pass up on one of the best forwards in the game right now, if he was available.

If the Wings had a legitimate shot at winning the Cup then I'm sure people would buy in, but adding a 43yr old tempermental player to a roster which is already crowded is not the answer, not this year.

 

[Ricelund]

Jarnkrok is not ready to center the second line.

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

I don't think you understand the concept of rentals. Rentals don't cost much in terms of assets. Why is this? Because rentals will likely only be on the team for half a season, and it's unfair to take valuable long term assets for another asset that won't be spending much time on the roster.

Really? The leading scorer on his team, a top 30 scorer in the NHL, wouldn't cost much in the terms of assets? Look at the Iginla deal from last year for a comparable. Not to mention that the devils DO NOT SELL at the deadline. If we're getting Jagr we will have to overpay for him.

You're freaking out over Jagr. He won't command Pulkinnen or Ferraro. I don't even know why you're setting such a stupid high price for a rental, if he were to be available. The last time Jagr was traded, he netted a conditional first and two nobodies. That's the same price he would command on the trade market this year, because the market is already set.

He would get at least what Iggy got & this year he's the 2nd best available player at the deadline. If you don't think he's getting at least a 1st + B/C prospect you're in for a shock.

This whole premise is based on the baseless assumption that another Anthony Mantha in a weaker draft year will be available to us in the draft. That's not fair at all. Mantha has been drafted already. We aren't getting another one of him. A Stanley Cup far outweighs anything you can get to the future. You could probably ask Buffalo Bills fans about winning a championship over sustained success and what that means to a fan.

Except it's just the top end that has been called weak. There are still a ton of prospects that have great potential in the middle of the 1st. I'd much, much rather take a 10-18 overall pick over Jagr, even without adding a prospect.

 

[Winger98]

I wonder if Paul Stastny is going to become a much bigger target for us over the summer. Best case scenario we end up with too many top6 centers and we deal a guy or two, or just start shifting some to wing.

 

[InjuredChoker]

i'm 98% sure that stastny stays with avs or (the less likely option) signs with blues.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

With Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Franzen having season ending injuries, should the Wings start selling?

(Not good pieces, but all the fat, and even them some)

 

[Vladdy84]

With Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Franzen having season ending injuries, should the Wings start selling?

That's 100% false as of right now. But if that comes to pass. Sure. Trade Alfie for a 1st. Bring up more kids and still make the playoffs.

 

[SoupNazi]

With Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Franzen having season ending injuries, should the Wings start selling?

Where are the reports that these are all season ending?

 

[Heaton]

That's 100% false as of right now. But if that comes to pass. Sure. Trade Alfie for a 1st. Bring up more kids and still make the playoffs.

I think Alfredsson came to the Wings to play for the Wings, I highly doubt he's interested in getting traded even if it means he makes the playoffs on another team if the Wings are out of it.

I was listening to 97.1 and they were advocating trading Pavel. That's why I don't listen to them.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

I wonder if Paul Stastny is going to become a much bigger target for us over the summer. Best case scenario we end up with too many top6 centers and we deal a guy or two, or just start shifting some to wing.

Ok, who's gunna take Weiss?

 

[Vatican Roulette]

Where are the reports that these are all season ending?

Sorry, Zetterberg, herniated disk, Franzen concussion, Datsyuk has been "hurt" all year.

The first two have been in the media, and it's not nothing new. Datsyuk might recover, I sure hope so.