Rumor: Planning Ahead: 2019 Off-Season Part 2

[Mats26]

Campbell was never left in to get absolutely shelled which has long term effects on the players stats for the season(much like shutouts do on the positive side). But breaking the season down game by game, both goalies had stretches of top play and bad play. Campbell was pretty bad in the second half, for example. Badly out played is a misnomer.

I don't judge game by game. All 3 goalies were shelled at some point last year.
I want to see the overall progression. Especially since some of the kids will have up and down stretches during the year.
Here are the numbers. There is no doubt Jack was better and arguably that Quick was the 3rd best goalie last year.

Cal Petersen

11

2.60

0.924

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Jack Campbell

31

2.29

0.928

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Jonathan Quick

46

3.38

0.888

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Don't get me wrong, I love Quick and I will be forever grateful for the cups.
But we need to ask ourselves if a progressing, developing 27 year old Campbell is not the better goalie for this team going forward than a 33 year old Quick.

 

[YP44]

The thing about last year is you can count the amount of players on the team that didn't have a decline on one hand. That's bizarre even for a bad team. Clifford was the only one that seemed to have a great year and Brown stayed good. But who else? A few of the rookies had decent outings. When you look at the game breakdowns, I'm fairly certain I saw one where WD left Quick in to get shelled for 7 goals. That's unheard of.


I just don't see it as a trend. Sure if it carries on this year, then it becomes a lot clearer, but his numbers are consistent until last season and that applies to almost everyone on the team. Kopitar had huge drop off from the previous season. Doughty was a -34, a career worst and a minus for the year for the first time since 2011-12. Are all these players in sudden freefall decline? I don't know. We'll see I guess, but I don't understand the focus on Quick in particular with trying to get rid of him right now.

Iafallo had a decent year last year too

 

[redcard]

I don't judge game by game. All 3 goalies were shelled at some point last year.
I want to see the overall progression. Especially since some of the kids will have up and down stretches during the year.
Here are the numbers. There is no doubt Jack was better and arguably that Quick was the 3rd best goalie last year.

Cal Petersen

11

2.60

0.924

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Jack Campbell

31

2.29

0.928

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Jonathan Quick

46

3.38

0.888

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Don't get me wrong, I love Quick and I will be forever grateful for the cups.
But we need to ask ourselves if a progressing, developing 27 year old Campbell is not the better goalie for this team going forward than a 33 year old Quick.

Petersen and Campbell were fighting for a spot in the league, every game means something to them regardless of where the team is in the standings. For Quick, the second half of the season was pointless and he mailed it in like the rest of the veterans on the team and the numbers reflect that. I'm not excusing the numbers, I'm just not putting much weight in them either.

 

[Mats26]

Petersen and Campbell were fighting for a spot in the league, every game means something to them regardless of where the team is in the standings. For Quick, the second half of the season was pointless and he mailed it in like the rest of the veterans on the team and the numbers reflect that. I'm not excusing the numbers, I'm just not putting much weight in them either.

Would be fun to put together a team that plays this way wouldn't it? It's about changing the culture and if all this talk from Blake and Co about culture and young kids needing to steal jobs is just BS... then we are going nowhere fast. I'll give the vets the benefit of doubt, see how they perform next 40 games or less but that's where we should draw the line.

 

[YP44]

Would be fun to put together a team that plays this way wouldn't it? It's about changing the culture and if all this talk from Blake and Co about culture and young kids needing to steal jobs is just BS... then we are going nowhere fast. I'll give the vets the benefit of doubt, see how they perform next 40 games or less but that's where we should draw the line.

Putting that team together hopefully started with the coaching hire

 

[Mats26]

Putting that teams together hopefully started with the coaching hire

 

[kingsholygrail]

I don't judge game by game. All 3 goalies were shelled at some point last year.
I want to see the overall progression. Especially since some of the kids will have up and down stretches during the year.
Here are the numbers. There is no doubt Jack was better and arguably that Quick was the 3rd best goalie last year.

Cal Petersen

11

2.60

0.924

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Jack Campbell

31

2.29

0.928

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Jonathan Quick

46

3.38

0.888

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Don't get me wrong, I love Quick and I will be forever grateful for the cups.
But we need to ask ourselves if a progressing, developing 27 year old Campbell is not the better goalie for this team going forward than a 33 year old Quick.

Based on one season?

 

[Mats26]

Based on one season?

Based on a very bad (team wise)one season, in which 2 out of the 3 goalies still manged to do fairly well.

 

[Rusty Batch]

Search my post history. You'll find mountains of evidence.

If you don't want to do that, pick a team, and I'll show you. Pick the highest scoring teams in the league, if you like. You'll find out that the Kings' bottom six has--with regularity--outscored some of the big guns and can be considered well above average. It's why when people complain about Lewis, Stoll, Clifford, etc. some of us just groan and roll our eyes because expectations aren't commensurate with reality. And then when confronted with evidence, the goalposts move, rinse, repeat.

Im not talking about our bottom 6 as a whole. I was talking about Stoll. And if you want me to pick a 3rd line C from a high scoring team,How about Kadri? He scored 44 last season...

 

[KingsFan7824]

For a couple of years, this looked like one of the worst contracts in the league. Thankfully Brown's play over the last couple of years has simmered those talks down. Now there's three more years to go on Brown's eight-year contract.

Lombardi never got 1 good season out of Brown from the day this contract was signed, and that includes 13-14. Brown's declining production after that deal is one of the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse that doomed the Kings.

Not impossible to move Quick, but it will be for a return of similar cap\term. Wennberg \ Neal maybe? Doubt we can pull much more value out of him. Not much we can do to hide his declining numbers, contract and age. After 20 games next year we'll have a better ideal which direction we should be going inbetween the pipes.

It's easier to hide a cap hit at forward than it is in net. We have to hope that Quick is great when the season starts, and keeps being great. Great enough to not allow Campbell to take any starts away. If he loses his spot as the #1, there's an even smaller chance anyone else wants him than there currently is.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Lombardi never got 1 good season out of Brown from the day this contract was signed, and that includes 13-14. Brown's declining production after that deal is one of the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse that doomed the Kings.

Brown's usage after signing that extension was just... baffling. He was utilized as a grinder, and produced like one. He was 7th in ice time among forwards in 2013-14, and earned only 43 more seconds of ice time than Dwight King. He was sixth in ice time among forwards in Sutter's last season here. Once Sutter was ousted, Brown is second among forwards in ice time, and his production skyrockets. Sutter simply didn't care much for Brown.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Brown's usage after signing that extension was just... baffling. He was utilized as a grinder, and produced like one. He was 7th in ice time among forwards in 2013-14, and earned only 43 more seconds of ice time than Dwight King. He was sixth in ice time among forwards in Sutter's last season here. Once Sutter was ousted, Brown is second among forwards in ice time, and his production skyrockets. Sutter simply didn't care much for Brown.

Yeah, would love to know what happened. In the 90 games between Sutter being hired and the end of the 2013 regular season, he averaged 20 minutes a night. Between Oct 2013 and April 2017, it was 16 minutes. Lombardi did add a couple forwards during that time. Toffoli started getting actual playing time. Gaborik and Lucic were added. Pearson too. Last couple years that depth has been eroded. Gaborik naturally fell apart, Lucic walked, Pearson was awful. Did add Kovalchuk though. Stevens played his main guys. Kopitar has played 2 or 3 minutes more per game than he did in those last few years with Sutter.

That Brown has had a couple decent seasons recently, actually makes everything after Jazz Hands that much more annoying. It's nice not to complain about Brown anymore, but his production in the last 168 games has also ultimately been irrelevant. If he can keep doing 55-60 points, and they can find some real depth behind him, they might have something.

 

[kingsfan28]

Lombardi never got 1 good season out of Brown from the day this contract was signed, and that includes 13-14. Brown's declining production after that deal is one of the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse that doomed the Kings.

this fall squarely on Sutter and Lombardi for letting it happen. I'm not sure what happened post cup #1, but he really fell out of favor and was in his doghouse til he was fired. One of his demands to be resigned was to remove the C from Brown and give it to someone else. I still remember the conversation during the Olympics between Brown and Oshi , when a hot mic picked up Oshi asking Brown what was the deal with Sutter. Brown said he didn't know why, but Sutter is doing everything he can to kill his confidence and wreck his career. It almost worked.

 

[damacles1156]

Im not talking about our bottom 6 as a whole. I was talking about Stoll. And if you want me to pick a 3rd line C from a high scoring team,How about Kadri? He scored 44 last season...

Perfect example of what Racoon is talking about. Kadri is a go between top six and third line center. Guess what Kadri was when the Leafs didn't have Tavares.....Wait for it......Wait for it ........Top six Center. Kadri Still scored at 50 point pace almost playing mostly third line this year, you picked a Center that is probably one of the top two in the entire NHL for bottom six production. As I stated, If you have a Center on the third line producing 35+ points yearly, you have one of the best bottom six centers in the entire league.

If you expect that type of production out of your third line center, then you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

 

[deaderhead28]

 

[kilowatt]

View attachment 245385

Thank you please

 

[Kingsfan1]

View attachment 245385

Would be great . Who would we target ? Would they give up one of Bjorkstrand, Anderson,Texier,Foudy + ? Maybe like Milano or I’d hope for a 1st lol. Highly doubt it idk

 

[Mats26]

Would be great . Who would we target ? Would they give up one of Bjorkstrand, Anderson,Texier,Foudy + ? Maybe like Milano or I’d hope for a 1st lol. Highly doubt it idk

Probably Wennberg is the offer at this point.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Columbus currently has 5 goalies under contract, two of them being 25 years old, and they're both 1 way. Blake would likely have to take one of those two back in any deal, which doesn't really help anything, other than getting out from Quick's contract. However, the term on Quick's contract, as well as the $7m in cash he'll be making this year, decreases his value. With all the forwards the Jackets lost this summer, can they afford to trade any of them for a 33/34 year old goalie with 4 years left on his contract, who has 1 playoff win in 5 years? Is that the guy to invest in? You can say they're not trying to tank, they signed Nyquist, but he came for free.

There's a reason Petersen has a 2 way deal for this season. If Quick was going anywhere, it would've happened by now. Every day that he isn't traded, makes it less and less likely that he's going to be traded. Especially when it comes to Columbus. They knew they were losing Bob, possibly making them the more desperate team in a Kings/Jackets trade equation, but Quick is still here. That has to tell us something. Calgary went with Talbot instead of getting Quick. Edmonton went with Smith instead of getting Quick. The Islanders and Panthers signed other guys. The Canes have gone with Reimer and Mrazek over Quick.

 

[henkkj]

I actually could see Columbus going for Quick. I highly doubt that they have too much confidence in Merzlikins who has never played in NA before or Korpisalo who hasn't developed that great. With that great D core they have I think they want to try and contend. Yes, Petersen has 2-way in his first year of the deal, but I think that's there only just in case they can't/won't trade Quick or Campbell, so he has a place to go. As for the return the Kings could get, I doubt it would be any of their young forwards or forward prospects except maybe Wennberg so I would expect one of their young D-men and/or a pick to be coming back. I also don't think that they would have to send one of their 1-way goalies back, since they should be very easy to trade to some team looking for a backup.

 

[tomd]

View attachment 245385

This is not even a rumor...it's total speculation on his part. Worthless as is most of what Bernstein and Hoven "report".

 

[Rusty Batch]

Perfect example of what Racoon is talking about. Kadri is a go between top six and third line center. Guess what Kadri was when the Leafs didn't have Tavares.....Wait for it......Wait for it ........Top six Center. Kadri Still scored at 50 point pace almost playing mostly third line this year, you picked a Center that is probably one of the top two in the entire NHL for bottom six production. As I stated, If you have a Center on the third line producing 35+ points yearly, you have one of the best bottom six centers in the entire league.

If you expect that type of production out of your third line center, then you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

Matthews and Tavares were the top two centers for Toronto. Kadri was... Wait for it.... Wait for it.... The third line center. So if another Third line Center scored 35 or 40 points, then no they wouldn't lead the league in scoring as a third line center. Because Kadri scored 44...

Your main argument that the kings bottom 6 is not our problem is a much better argument and correct. But pretending that the 20ish points that Stoll gave us at 3rd line center spot was good offensive production for the role is a weak argument.

Stoll was a very good solid defensive minded bottom 6 Center. You dont need to make him into more than that.

 

[BringTheReign]

The Athletic's analytics writer has us as the 11th most improved team this offseason based off player transactions.

The sole contributing factor to a +1 increase to projected wins (based off of GSVA)?

Buying out Phaneuf.

 

[KINGS17]

Columbus currently has 5 goalies under contract, two of them being 25 years old, and they're both 1 way. Blake would likely have to take one of those two back in any deal, which doesn't really help anything, other than getting out from Quick's contract. However, the term on Quick's contract, as well as the $7m in cash he'll be making this year, decreases his value. With all the forwards the Jackets lost this summer, can they afford to trade any of them for a 33/34 year old goalie with 4 years left on his contract, who has 1 playoff win in 5 years? Is that the guy to invest in? You can say they're not trying to tank, they signed Nyquist, but he came for free.

There's a reason Petersen has a 2 way deal for this season. If Quick was going anywhere, it would've happened by now. Every day that he isn't traded, makes it less and less likely that he's going to be traded. Especially when it comes to Columbus. They knew they were losing Bob, possibly making them the more desperate team in a Kings/Jackets trade equation, but Quick is still here. That has to tell us something. Calgary went with Talbot instead of getting Quick. Edmonton went with Smith instead of getting Quick. The Islanders and Panthers signed other guys. The Canes have gone with Reimer and Mrazek over Quick.

...or Columbus could have another deal in mind with another team moving out one of their goaltenders.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

You both have valid points I think. If you look at the game against Colorado in January, Quick got pulled after giving up 5 goals. He was absolutely brilliant in the first period though, giving up 1 goal when it easily could have been 5. It was Conn Smythe Quick. The wheels came off in the second period. Quick is not used to playing in meaningless games. Goalies do have off years, even the best ones. Remember when Fleury was "done"?

Might be an outlier, or it might be what we point to later as being the beginning of the end. I guess we will find out this season.

Carey price has a .900 season and two .905s.

Fleury has .896, .898, .905, .906.

Even Lundqvist has a .907.

Most of these guys have at least one total garbage season and came back just fine or better. I'd bet on Quick, especially given everyone sucked but Iafallo and Clifford (and rookies).