Rumor: Planning Ahead: 2019 Off-Season Part 2

[Mats26]

Something else to think about if Campbell steals Quick's job; Quick's value goes even lower(try building him up as the best big game goalie in the league at that point), and you have to sell Petersen for peanuts. However it shakes out, it's unlikely they come out ahead in value for goalies.

Have they ever come out ahead on a goalie? Jones was in the same rock/hard place position that Campbell and Petersen are in now, because Quick wasn't going anywhere in 2015, and can't go anywhere in 2019. I guess getting a 3rd for Scrivens wasn't bad. Speaking of Bernier, was Frattin, a goalie, and a 2nd good value for a guy you took 11th overall and lost his goalie of the future job to a 3rd round pick? Budaj was more of a throw in for roster purposes when he went to TB. Bishop got a 4th, and the player they eventually took with the pick will be starting to get into some pro games in the AHL this year.

We are not building up Quick as a big game goalie because we are not a playoff contender. That's where he excels. How do you show GMs he still has it for the playoffs while getting outplayed by the "backup" during the season? You can't. We'll be trying to "increase his value" for the next 4 years at this rate.

Loyalty is what got us in this mess. If Jack wins the starting job early in the season, then I think Blake will have a difficult trade to make.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

There were a lot of King fans who went to bat for LaBarbera stating he was a #1. Hopefully they donned the scarlet L and wear it with pride.

LaBarbera had his own cult following. He was a star in the minors, but fell in the long line of below average Kings goalies. Mathieu Garon, Barry Brust, Dan Cloutier, Roman Cechmanek, Yutaka Fukufuji, Jamie Storr, Stephane Fiset, Frederic Chabot, Daniel Taylor, Travis Scott, Adam Hauser, Robb Stauber, Mathieu Chouinard, Erik Ersberg, Jean-Sebastien Aubin... typing that list out just made me have ‘nam flashbacks.

 

[Kingspiracy]

LaBarbera had his own cult following. He was a star in the minors, but fell in the long line of below average Kings goalies. Mathieu Garon, Barry Brust, Dan Cloutier, Roman Cechmanek, Yutaka Fukufuji, Jamie Storr, Stephane Fiset, Frederic Chabot, Daniel Taylor, Travis Scott, Adam Hauser, Robb Stauber, Mathieu Chouinard, Erik Ersberg, Jean-Sebastien Aubin... typing that list out just made me have ‘nam flashbacks.

If only Fukufuji was given a fair shot though...

 

[damacles1156]

The Jarret Stoll we had for the last 4 or 5 seasons was more of a 20 point 3rd liner that hurt us offensively in his role but helped us defensively.
I dont think we haven't been able to replace that type of player. Clifford and Lewis are guys that do that from the third line. We have a few more of them scattered throughout the lineup too. Iafallo comes to mind as someone who really hurts us offensively but provides intangibles.

I don't know how many times I have to explain, Third line centers score about 20 -30 points a year on average LEAGUE WIDE. If your third line center is scoring at 35+ points a year guess what, you have the best third line center in the ENTIRE NHL.

 

[The Tikkanen]

LaBarbera had his own cult following. He was a star in the minors, but fell in the long line of below average Kings goalies. Mathieu Garon, Barry Brust, Dan Cloutier, Roman Cechmanek, Yutaka Fukufuji, Jamie Storr, Stephane Fiset, Frederic Chabot, Daniel Taylor, Travis Scott, Adam Hauser, Robb Stauber, Mathieu Chouinard, Erik Ersberg, Jean-Sebastien Aubin... typing that list out just made me have ‘nam flashbacks.

That list is part of the reason Quick hasn't been traded.

 

[Fishhead]

LaBarbera had his own cult following. He was a star in the minors, but fell in the long line of below average Kings goalies. Mathieu Garon, Barry Brust, Dan Cloutier, Roman Cechmanek, Yutaka Fukufuji, Jamie Storr, Stephane Fiset, Frederic Chabot, Daniel Taylor, Travis Scott, Adam Hauser, Robb Stauber, Mathieu Chouinard, Erik Ersberg, Jean-Sebastien Aubin... typing that list out just made me have ‘nam flashbacks.

It's crazy how there has been a complete 180. Ranford joined with Lombardi, and during the first 2 years EIGHT of those guys saw time in NHL games, along with Sean Burke. After a few years of development Quick took over and they finally weeded out the crap. Since then, everyone has been really good, except for Bishop who only played a few games and Zatkoff who was a mess.

There's a lot of luck involved but when DL said he was building from the back out, he wasn't kidding.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

It's crazy how there has been a complete 180. Ranford joined with Lombardi, and during the first 2 years EIGHT of those guys saw time in NHL games, along with Sean Burke. After a few years of development Quick took over and they finally weeded out the crap. Since then, everyone has been really good, except for Bishop who only played a few games and Zatkoff who was a mess.

There's a lot of luck involved but when DL said he was building from the back out, he wasn't kidding.

And a few reclamation projects did work out, which was necessary for a while because after Martin Jones was moved, the team didn't have much luck in finding any decent goalie prospects (save for Patrik Bartosak who threw his career away like a dumbass).

 

[Rusty Batch]

I don't know how many times I have to explain, Third line centers score about 20 -30 points a year on average LEAGUE WIDE. If your third line center is scoring at 35+ points a year guess what, you have the best third line center in the ENTIRE NHL.

Your providing no evidence for your position. To put it in perspective Stoll scored 27 points in his highest scoring season as a third line center with us. Kempe scored 28 on last years years garbage team, in the same role. Stolls offense was not good

 

[Telos]

LaBarbera had his own cult following. He was a star in the minors, but fell in the long line of below average Kings goalies. Mathieu Garon, Barry Brust, Dan Cloutier, Roman Cechmanek, Yutaka Fukufuji, Jamie Storr, Stephane Fiset, Frederic Chabot, Daniel Taylor, Travis Scott, Adam Hauser, Robb Stauber, Mathieu Chouinard, Erik Ersberg, Jean-Sebastien Aubin... typing that list out just made me have ‘nam flashbacks.

I can't help but laugh thinking of how many heart attacks I had watching Robb Stauber play.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Your providing no evidence for your position. To put it in perspective Stoll scored 27 points in his highest scoring season as a third line center with us. Kempe scored 28 on last years years garbage team, in the same role. Stolls offense was not good

Search my post history. You'll find mountains of evidence.

If you don't want to do that, pick a team, and I'll show you. Pick the highest scoring teams in the league, if you like. You'll find out that the Kings' bottom six has--with regularity--outscored some of the big guns and can be considered well above average. It's why when people complain about Lewis, Stoll, Clifford, etc. some of us just groan and roll our eyes because expectations aren't commensurate with reality. And then when confronted with evidence, the goalposts move, rinse, repeat.

 

[kingsholygrail]

I wonder what Jamie Storr could have been if he didn't get that nasty concussion against the Blues.

 

[KINGS17]

I can't help but laugh thinking of how many heart attacks I had watching Robb Stauber play.

You have to admit watching goalies back then was a lot more fun. Then came the Michelin men with Giguerre leading that pack.

 

[YP44]

I wonder what Jamie Storr could have been if he didn't get that nasty concussion against the Blues.

spittin chicklets podcast confirmed it was intentional this year.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Jarret Stoll was pretty awful in his last season with the Kings. There's a reason why he was out of the league after one last stint where he split time between the Rangers and the Wild.

Then Stoll was replaced by a soft center who couldn't produce and was below average on faceoffs, and a center who would produce less points than the likes of Luke Schenn and Derek Forbort.

 

[KingsFan7824]

We are not building up Quick as a big game goalie because we are not a playoff contender. That's where he excels. How do you show GMs he still has it for the playoffs while getting outplayed by the "backup" during the season? You can't. We'll be trying to "increase his value" for the next 4 years at this rate.

Loyalty is what got us in this mess. If Jack wins the starting job early in the season, then I think Blake will have a difficult trade to make.

Yeah, and it won't involve Quick, but not out of loyalty. I think those days are done. We've seen what Quick does with average teams. He's not carrying anyone come playoff time. He'd have to go to a rock solid contender, and they're not usually looking for goalies. Especially older ones with term.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

For a couple of years, this looked like one of the worst contracts in the league. Thankfully Brown's play over the last couple of years has simmered those talks down. Now there's three more years to go on Brown's eight-year contract.

 

[kovacro]

You have to admit watching goalies back then was a lot more fun. Then came the Michelin men with Giguerre leading that pack.

I remember Garth Snow being known for that as well. He looked like a fat kid at a buffet with all the additional padding everywhere.

 

[Mats26]

Yeah, and it won't involve Quick, but not out of loyalty. I think those days are done. We've seen what Quick does with average teams. He's not carrying anyone come playoff time. He'd have to go to a rock solid contender, and they're not usually looking for goalies. Especially older ones with term.

Not impossible to move Quick, but it will be for a return of similar cap\term. Wennberg \ Neal maybe? Doubt we can pull much more value out of him. Not much we can do to hide his declining numbers, contract and age. After 20 games next year we'll have a better ideal which direction we should be going inbetween the pipes.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Not impossible to move Quick, but it will be for a return of similar cap\term. Wennberg \ Neal maybe? Doubt we can pull much more value out of him. Not much we can do to hide his declining numbers, contract and age. After 20 games next year we'll have a better ideal which direction we should be going inbetween the pipes.

Do yourself a favor and actually go look at his numbers. Last season was an incredible outlier and no surprise given Willie's unwillingness to pull goalies when they're getting shelled.

 

[YP44]

Do yourself a favor and actually go look at his numbers. Last season was an incredible outlier and no surprise given Willie's unwillingness to pull goalies when they're getting shelled.

Two year's ago Quick was unreal (especially in 4 playoff games). I don't think that level of plays just dissapears so quickly , however I would be lying if I was not concerned by last year.

 

[HeadInjury]

Do yourself a favor and actually go look at his numbers. Last season was an incredible outlier and no surprise given Willie's unwillingness to pull goalies when they're getting shelled.

You both have valid points I think. If you look at the game against Colorado in January, Quick got pulled after giving up 5 goals. He was absolutely brilliant in the first period though, giving up 1 goal when it easily could have been 5. It was Conn Smythe Quick. The wheels came off in the second period. Quick is not used to playing in meaningless games. Goalies do have off years, even the best ones. Remember when Fleury was "done"?

Might be an outlier, or it might be what we point to later as being the beginning of the end. I guess we will find out this season.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Two year's ago Quick was unreal (especially in 4 playoff games). I don't think that level of plays just dissapears so quickly , however I would be lying if I was not concerned by last year.

The thing about last year is you can count the amount of players on the team that didn't have a decline on one hand. That's bizarre even for a bad team. Clifford was the only one that seemed to have a great year and Brown stayed good. But who else? A few of the rookies had decent outings. When you look at the game breakdowns, I'm fairly certain I saw one where WD left Quick in to get shelled for 7 goals. That's unheard of.

You both have valid points I think. If you look at the game against Colorado in January, Quick got pulled after giving up 5 goals. He was absolutely brilliant in the first period though, giving up 1 goal when it easily could have been 5. It was Conn Smythe Quick. The wheels came off in the second period. Quick is not used to playing in meaningless games. Goalies do have off years, even the best ones. Remember when Fleury was "done"?

Might be an outlier, or it might be what we point to later as being the beginning of the end. I guess we will find out this season.

I just don't see it as a trend. Sure if it carries on this year, then it becomes a lot clearer, but his numbers are consistent until last season and that applies to almost everyone on the team. Kopitar had huge drop off from the previous season. Doughty was a -34, a career worst and a minus for the year for the first time since 2011-12. Are all these players in sudden freefall decline? I don't know. We'll see I guess, but I don't understand the focus on Quick in particular with trying to get rid of him right now.

 

[Mats26]

Do yourself a favor and actually go look at his numbers. Last season was an incredible outlier and no surprise given Willie's unwillingness to pull goalies when they're getting shelled.

Not sure what your adding to the discussions except for proving my point. Numbers showed he was badly outplayed by Campbell under same coach and in front of same roster.
I said we'll see in the first 20 games where Quick is at. If he repeats last year then Blake has a difficult trade(that involves Quick) to make.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Not sure what your adding to the discussions except for proving my point. Numbers showed he was badly outplayed by Campbell under same coach and in front of same roster.
I said we'll see in the first 20 games where Quick is at. If he repeats last year then Blake has a difficult trade(that involves Quick) to make.

Campbell was never left in to get absolutely shelled which has long term effects on the players stats for the season(much like shutouts do on the positive side). But breaking the season down game by game, both goalies had stretches of top play and bad play. Campbell was pretty bad in the second half, for example. Badly out played is a misnomer.

 

[BigKing]

Playing behind that defense did not help, but Quick gets hurt right off the hop. He's older and plays a demanding style that is not necessarily technically sound. I mean, he's more known for giving up meh goals but then making saves he has no business making.

He gets hurt and he's chasing it the rest of the season. Can't always make those crazy saves, he has to make more of them because of the poor defense, plus he keeps letting in those meh goals. Then you get those atrocious numbers.

He was great opening night against SJ. It is just one game but, yeah, the guy needs to avoid LBIs at this stage of his career.