Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread: Clever Thread Title Needed

[Peat]

I feel like judging 5v5 points this year is a little hard. We know the line has done a *lot* of best on best in a really tough division. You look at Rust's most common forward opponents this year and you get

Marchand/Bergeron
Buchnevich/Zibanejad
Bailey/Barzal
Sharangovich/Kuokkanen (NJ, not sure they're as a elite as the others...)
Reinhart/Sheahan (what a time to be alive)
Laughton/Konecny/Hayes
Kuznetsov/Eller/Ovechkin (huh, was that a line?)

Like, happy trails scoring on that lot, right? We know they're scoring low but there's an obvious reason. But then there's been a lot of troubles around the line up.

Me, I think it'll be interesting to see how the production looks in the playoffs. Feel it'll be easier to compare that to past production. It'll be the important part in judging anyway.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Also, our best goal scorers are Tanev, Zucker, and Sceviour:

NHL Stats

Who knew? Thanks, /60!

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

And just in case anyone was wondering, Sprong is the best goal scorer and point producer on the Caps:

NHL Stats

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Out of curiosity, what are Crosby and Guentzel's 5v5 points/60 this year?

EDIT: Found it.

NHL Stats

Are we ready to declare Tanev better offensively than Crosby?

I think there HAVE been concerns about Crosby's production at 5on5 this season.

I also think Rust not being very effective plays a part in that, though. I can recall quite a few opportunities Crosby's made a great play to Rust on, only for Rust to shoot wide or shoot high.

Maybe it's a case of delegating blame, but I think Rust's performance offensively at 5on5 has been a big stumbling block to why Sid and Jake's totals are so low. I feel like when that line is generating chances, it's usually Rust that's flubbing the chance.

 

[Peat]

I feel like judging 5v5 points this year is a little hard. We know the line has done a *lot* of best on best in a really tough division. You look at Rust's most common forward opponents this year and you get

Marchand/Bergeron
Buchnevich/Zibanejad
Bailey/Barzal
Sharangovich/Kuokkanen (NJ, not sure they're as a elite as the others...)
Reinhart/Sheahan (what a time to be alive)
Laughton/Konecny/Hayes
Kuznetsov/Eller/Ovechkin (huh, was that a line?)

Like, happy trails scoring on that lot, right? We know they're scoring low but there's an obvious reason. But then there's been a lot of troubles around the line up.

Me, I think it'll be interesting to see how the production looks in the playoffs. Feel it'll be easier to compare that to past production. It'll be the important part in judging anyway.

Further to this, line production vs opponents

GF3 GA8 - Boston
GF1 GA3 - Buffalo
GF9 GA5 - NJD
GF4 GA2 - NYI
GF7 GA1 - NYR
GF2 GA0 - Philadelphia
GF2 GA1 - Washington

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think there HAVE been concerns about Crosby's production at 5on5 this season.

I also think Rust not being very effective plays a part in that, though. I can recall quite a few opportunities Crosby's made a great play to Rust on, only for Rust to shoot wide or shoot high.

Maybe it's a case of delegating blame, but I think Rust's performance offensively at 5on5 has been a big stumbling block to why Sid and Jake's totals are so low. I feel like when that line is generating chances, it's usually Rust that's flubbing the chance.

I know it's anecdotal and therefore too easy for people to discount out of hand but FWIW this has been my observation all year since that line has been a thing, too.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Speaking for myself it's only frustration.

At this point it's just like... I can't be mad at the guy because from what I can tell it's not at all his fault but the reality is still that dude is a part-timer anymore.

But yeah you'd think that people could see that the guy has often gotten the rather raw end of the stick and never complains. And yet...

I totally get it, but I also think this year has been dumb for injuries and rehab on lots of levels. Plus, I despise the organization playing cute about injuries and recovery times.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I totally get it, but I also think this year has been dumb for injuries and rehab on lots of levels. Plus, I despise the organization playing cute about injuries and recovery times.

Me too. But you know... national security secret. Can't give other teams an edge that I'm not even sure exists, anyway!

 

[cygnus47]

I think there HAVE been concerns about Crosby's production at 5on5 this season.

I also think Rust not being very effective plays a part in that, though. I can recall quite a few opportunities Crosby's made a great play to Rust on, only for Rust to shoot wide or shoot high.

Maybe it's a case of delegating blame, but I think Rust's performance offensively at 5on5 has been a big stumbling block to why Sid and Jake's totals are so low. I feel like when that line is generating chances, it's usually Rust that's flubbing the chance.

I'm not the biggest fan of Rust, but they're all equally to blame. Sid has done more cruising around this year than any previous years, Guentzel hasn't seemed able to create nearly as much space and Rust is on a concrete hands streak handling the puck. If I had to lay blame, I'd say it's mostly Sid's lack of all-game-every-game energy he used to have that is mostly responsible.

 

[Peat]

Also, our best goal scorers are Tanev, Zucker, and Sceviour:

NHL Stats

Who knew? Thanks, /60!

P/60 is not the be all and end all. But it is a red flag if a guy getting major minutes has a low number. Sure, we know role changes stuff, but if a guy can't keep production up maybe they shouldn't keep the role.

And yes, right now that whole line is underperforming away from the empty net, but the guy with the least history will get the most questions.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I can't really fault Jake too much for being a passenger this year because to my eyes he's still obviously not 100% yet from his surgery. Maybe he'll never be?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I can't really fault Jake too much for being a passenger this year because to my eyes he's still obviously not 100% yet from his surgery. Maybe he'll never be?

Shoulder injuries are rough, man. Believe it or not a big reason Melichar's career went so sour is because of a bad shoulder injury/surgery he took pretty early in his career.

At one point he was well though of and considered an up-and-comer and even mostly looking the part.

 

[Gurglesons]

I can't really fault Jake too much for being a passenger this year because to my eyes he's still obviously not 100% yet from his surgery. Maybe he'll never be?

It's hard for me to fault Jake because he is paid to produce and he is doing that.

His 5v5 production is great this year. Rust isn't and I'm not saying that makes him a bad player. Just this idea that he is some immovable force on our top line or as some have said the "key" to that line is just plain bad narrative.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm not the biggest fan of Rust, but they're all equally to blame. Sid has done more cruising around this year than any previous years, Guentzel hasn't seemed able to create nearly as much space and Rust is on a concrete hands streak handling the puck. If I had to lay blame, I'd say it's mostly Sid's lack of all-game-every-game energy he used to have that is mostly responsible.

I find it hard to argue Sid has been "cruising" with what the ask is for him this year. He's being asked to carry our team offensively and defensively for large portions of the season with both Malkin and Teddy being injured for significant time.

I don't see how you look at Jake and Sid and say they are equally to blame.

Sid is a top tier two way center this year. That is what he is paid to do.

Guentzel is an offensive top tier winger this year. That is what he is paid to do.

Rust is paid to be a support player. And he is doing that. So I have no problem with his contract this year or next, but I do have a problem saying he is irreplaceable or this team can't afford to lose him. Rust is exactly the type of player you deal when he is 30 because his game is lifted up by his physical attributes and line mates. May it continue? Yes. He could very easily do what Hornqvist did after we moved him. But that isn't what you worry about. You worry about how it effects your team moving forward and losing one of McCann and Kapanen to retain Rust just seems like a disaster written in the stars.

 

[Gurglesons]

Also, our best goal scorers are Tanev, Zucker, and Sceviour:

NHL Stats

Who knew? Thanks, /60!

Zucker and Tanev have been two of our best goal scorers after the top line despite what narrative people want to make about them.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I'm not the biggest fan of Rust, but they're all equally to blame. Sid has done more cruising around this year than any previous years, Guentzel hasn't seemed able to create nearly as much space and Rust is on a concrete hands streak handling the puck. If I had to lay blame, I'd say it's mostly Sid's lack of all-game-every-game energy he used to have that is mostly responsible.

Oh, I think Crosby has to be better. But just in terms of offensive production and chances being generated that end up failing, I think Rust's the culprit more often than Sid or Jake. When that line generates a scoring chance and it goes nowhere, it's usually on the end of Rust's stick that the play fizzled.

Maybe that's not entirely fair to Rust. He's not really a sniper, but yet seems to be playing that role for that line (ie. most plays seem to be Sid or Jake trying to find him open, or him taking a lot of the shots at the end of a play). But it is what it is, and I think if Rust would have capitalized on more of the chances the other two created for him, you're probably looking at a good 7 to 10 extra points at ES for all three guys.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Zucker and Tanev have been two of our best goal scorers after the top line despite what narrative people want to make about them.

We don't even need that caveat, they're flat out the best goal scorers we have according to /60, followed closely by Sceviour and then Guentzel.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Shoulder injuries are rough, man. Believe it or not a big reason Melichar's career went so sour is because of a bad shoulder injury/surgery he took pretty early in his career.

At one point he was well though of and considered an up-and-comer and even mostly looking the part.

I think Talbot needed that full year recovery time before he was effective again, which he was no-longer a Penguin at that point.

 

[Peat]

I find it hard to argue Sid has been "cruising" with what the ask is for him this year. He's being asked to carry our team offensively and defensively for large portions of the season with both Malkin and Teddy being injured for significant time.

They've all been carrying that load. Tbh, part of me wonders if we're not being too hard on them. People point at the flaws but a lot is going right in tough circs and maybe we're taking for granted the things they do right.

But, at the same time, we know they can all bring more 5v5 production and that we'd be unhappy if this was the future here.

 

[Al Smith]

Also, our best goal scorers are Tanev, Zucker, and Sceviour:

NHL Stats

Who knew? Thanks, /60!

Fire Sully.

 

[Al Smith]

Me too. But you know... national security secret. Can't give other teams an edge that I'm not even sure exists, anyway!

Since they coyly kept Geno's true injury from other teams, they'll just target his whole body now.

 

[Al Smith]

I can't really fault Jake too much for being a passenger this year because to my eyes he's still obviously not 100% yet from his surgery. Maybe he'll never be?

His goal the other night was a pre-injury type of Guentzel goal. It was pretty refreshing to see, and hopefully a sign of more to come.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Shoulder injuries are rough, man. Believe it or not a big reason Melichar's career went so sour is because of a bad shoulder injury/surgery he took pretty early in his career.

At one point he was well though of and considered an up-and-comer and even mostly looking the part.

I think we're not allowed to talk about the historical past here, because that's a lazy keyboard expert type of thing, knowing that the events of the past have relevance to the posts of today and all.

But yeah, man, shoulder injuries are gnarly. It took me a like a year and a half to get my left shoulder back to feeling kind of normal after I broke it, and that didn't damage the joint at all.

 

[cygnus47]

Oh, I think Crosby has to be better. But just in terms of offensive production and chances being generated that end up failing, I think Rust's the culprit more often than Sid or Jake. When that line generates a scoring chance and it goes nowhere, it's usually on the end of Rust's stick that the play fizzled.

Maybe that's not entirely fair to Rust. He's not really a sniper, but yet seems to be playing that role for that line (ie. most plays seem to be Sid or Jake trying to find him open, or him taking a lot of the shots at the end of a play). But it is what it is, and I think if Rust would have capitalized on more of the chances the other two created for him, you're probably looking at a good 7 to 10 extra points at ES for all three guys.

My issue is his exploding bouncy passes and puck handling in transition. I think we're probably talking about the same thing, but you can see if he just got a pass off a second faster or flatter or weighted it better, or handled a puck a bit faster that something would have come of it. When it comes to purely just getting shots off though, I'm pretty impressed by his ability to place shots from iffy passes.

 

[HandshakeLine]

It's hard for me to fault Jake because he is paid to produce and he is doing that.

His 5v5 production is great this year. Rust isn't and I'm not saying that makes him a bad player. Just this idea that he is some immovable force on our top line or as some have said the "key" to that line is just plain bad narrative.

I think Jake deserves additional props for keeping his 5v5 production up even when he and his line are struggling. But that goal a few nights ago was a damned beauty and I hope it marks a return to form for the dude.