Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread: Clever Thread Title Needed

[AuroraBorealis]

Guentzel and Malkin both look hurt. I fear that tumble into the boards that looked like Jake shoulder break 2.0 may have done something to him.

The Isles are just beating us with speed, intensity, and physicality. If we don't match 2 of the 3, we're going to have issues. We have more skill than physicality than they do but our speed and intensity seems to ebb and flow while they just bring it in waves. As soon as we have a turnover for a goal or something like that you can bet your ass you're going to see a 2016 looking Penguins team but instead the Isles coming at us like buzzsaws.

They're also beating us with bounces that we're not getting.

We have 1. I believe they have 5.

 

[pistolpete11]

The Pens are going to have tough decisions to make after next season. I have a hard time believing that both Malkin and Letang would be brought back. Maybe one or the other, but unless they both take VERY cheap deals, I don't see it being viable. I think this year and next are the last hurrahs for this core before the inevitable rebuild begins, or at least a serious re-tooling that involves one or more core players leaving.

That being said, I think Malkin is likely to have a shorter shelf life than Letang. Everyone always says "when Letang's body gives out, it's going to be ugly," but the fact of the matter is that's already happening to Malkin. I would be shocked if he ever plays a 70+ game season again. He has clearly lost more than a step. Even after he "got it together" earlier in the season, he wasn't even really close to a point per game. He's well into the back nine of his career and I don't know if it would be wise for the Penguins to keep him around for another contract unless he's willing to sign for well under market value and play a diminished role.

From the game Crosby missed because of COVID protocol and they reunited GMR (which I think was the major turning point for Malkin's season) to the time he was hurt, Malkin had 12 points in 9 games (109point pace over 82 games). He was a point per game in his final 4 regular season games and so far in the postseason as well. Not to mention the season he had last year.

Questioning his durability is fair and frankly has been almost his entire career. But when he's on, he's still a 1C caliber player.

 

[KIRK]

Guentzel and Malkin both look hurt. I fear that tumble into the boards that looked like Jake shoulder break 2.0 may have done something to him.

The Isles are just beating us with speed, intensity, and physicality. If we don't match 2 of the 3, we're going to have issues. We have more skill than physicality than they do but our speed and intensity seems to ebb and flow while they just bring it in waves. As soon as we have a turnover for a goal or something like that you can bet your ass you're going to see a 2016 looking Penguins team but instead the Isles coming at us like buzzsaws.

When 1 is pretty equal and you're not built to beat them on 3, you're kind of at a competitive disadvantage.

That's the problem in looking to the glory days of 2016. That Pens team was faster than everyone, period (I think 2017 was a little closer without Letang, but that was goaltending, Sid and Geno going bonkers like 2009, and a pretty fortuitous list of opponents).

Anyway, the speed advantage is gone, so being smaller and softer matters.

Hextall knows this. Burke knows this. There will be some pretty significant moves this summer . . . Geno and Letang will play next year out and either stay or move on, but I suspect anyone beyond those two (and Sid, of course) will be fair game.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Neither Malkin or Crosby are the issues on this team. The mistake that this team has made was assuming they didn't need to change the kind of wingers that Crosby and Malkin needed as they aged. Crosby and Malkin are aging exactly as you'd expect based on how former star players like Sakic, Forsberg and Yzerman aged. You can still win with those guys as your cornerstone pieces, you just need to give them the right supporting cast.

I think they have the guy they need for Crosby with Guentzel, I think he's just hurt right now. You need to find Malkin's version to Sakic's Tanguay.

 

[KIRK]

Neither Malkin or Crosby are the issues on this team. The mistake that this team has made was assuming they didn't need to change the kind of wingers that Crosby and Malkin needed as they aged. Crosby and Malkin are aging exactly as you'd expect based on how former star players like Sakic, Forsberg and Yzerman aged. You can still win with those guys as your cornerstone pieces, you just need to give them the right supporting cast.

And as the game changed.

Everyone saw the Pens win by being faster than everyone else, so the good teams became as fast as the Pens (if not faster).

From faster than everyone else to smaller but no faster than the good teams as Crosby and Malkin aged 4 years.

And the old (GM) and current coach never changed with that reality.

Hextall has his work cut out for him, but I'm holding out hope that there's an inside straight flush draw there akin to Rutherford's 2015-2016 season.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Anyway, the speed advantage is gone, so being smaller and softer matters.

Hextall knows this. Burke knows this. There will be some pretty significant moves this summer . . . Geno and Letang will play next year out and either stay or move on, but I suspect anyone beyond those two (and Sid, of course) will be fair game.

The question is, will Sullivan be on the same page? If Hextall/Burke bring in more beef, will Sullivan actually utilize it? Or will those players be misused because they don't fit the "style" Sullivan wants them to play?

Not saying they were great players, but just look at how Sullivan used any sort of size that JR would bring in. Reaves? The guy was essentially getting 5 minutes per night and didn't see the ice in the third period. Gudbranson was a bottom pairing defender for us, etc.

Again, I get that those probably aren't the best examples of what we need because they're both really limited as hockey players. But I'm speaking more to the usage of them under Sullivan. Reaves, for instance, isn't any worse than a lot of the scrubs we've had on our 4th line recently. Yet Sullivan limited his ice time in a way he didn't limit guys like Jankowski, Lafferty, etc.

Will he do the same with whatever "big" guys Hextall brings in?

 

[KIRK]

The question is, will Sullivan be on the same page? If Hextall/Burke bring in more beef, will Sullivan actually utilize it? Or will those players be misused because they don't fit the "style" Sullivan wants them to play?

Not saying they were great players, but just look at how Sullivan used any sort of size that JR would bring in. Reaves? The guy was essentially getting 5 minutes per night and didn't see the ice in the third period. Gudbranson was a bottom pairing defender for us, etc.

Again, I get that those probably aren't the best examples of what we need because they're both really limited as hockey players. But I'm speaking more to the usage of them under Sullivan. Reaves, for instance, isn't any worse than a lot of the scrubs we've had on our 4th line recently. Yet Sullivan limited his ice time in a way he didn't limit guys like Jankowski, Lafferty, etc.

Will he do the same with whatever "big" guys Hextall brings in?

I guess we'll have to wait to see if that first question will even be relevant.

 

[chethejet]

Sullivan did a very good job keeping the Pens winning during injuries that most teams don't recover from. But it is clear his staying with a model that just hasn't worked the last two years and possibly this year begs the question. Is he just unable or unwilling to see what is now winning in the NHL. It isn't just speed and skill even though the Av's are loaded with both. Carter big body RH shot who can play center was a good move as Pens just lacked any size down the middle with Malkin in limbo.

 

[robopigeon]

It's also about Divisions. Caps and Isles saw Pens as contenders and built their teams to counter them, to some extent. Pens have not countered the counter. They did some half-assed attempt to Get Big to face the Caps, but nothing to address the Isles. The Isles also play a goddamn annoying, suffocating style of all-team defense which requires less a counter in players as much as systems.

Pens still are a nightmare matchup for a lot of other teams out there. If they'd ever get to that point.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

If they actually called the islanders when a penguins skater skates pass them and gets held we will be fine. We’re still the fastest team in the division not Tampa or Colorado fast.
I still think rust is moved and the sign a big pwf to play with Sid.

 

[HandshakeLine]

If they actually called the islanders when a penguins skater skates pass them and gets held we will be fine

I agree with this in the abstract, but that has literally never been the way the NHL officiates the post-season. So I’d have hoped by this time in our window, management and coaching would have figured that out.

Everyone else got the memo, but we gotta just get to our game.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'm fine with either going nuclear this summer assuming we lose in the 1st/2nd, or going hard trying to reshape the roster to be more fit for playoff style/intensity.

Rust is James Neal in his regular season theatrics followed by playoff disappearance. Jake is either still hurt, which is a big problem, or he's simply not built for the rigors of NHL playoff hockey over the long term, which is another problem. Either way, he's been trash with respect to what we need and expect from the guy. McCann's a nobody when it matters. Zucker too. Kap hustles, and that's great, but he's gotta find another level offensively or settle into being a prime Hagelin type for Geno's line. You can't go into next season paying ~$8.5 million for the bottom pair made of two guys who struggled badly for long periods this season. In a way, we're lucky Ceci turned back into a pumpkin now as opposed to in the 1st year of his new contract.

That's a bunch of shit that needs to be changed, and a GM who is known for being patient to handle it. If the window's still open, and I'm wholly unconvinced that it is, looking around the league, you gotta be crazy aggressive in the next 8 months to sort the stuff out in time for one final run. I don't see it happening realistically, so I'm entirely fine if the team concedes that time's undefeated, and they shift their approach to a more long-term, 3-5 year picture. Focusing on the younger guys and loading up on picks/prospects.

 

[Jacob]

Posted in meltdown thread but we need a new goalie coach. We don’t have any goalie prospects close to ready, few assets to give up and great goalies aren’t being thrown around the trade market.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

If you really wanna take a run at the Cup one more time this era, and you think your goaltending needs a significant upgrade, go out and get Gibson. Even if it costs you Jake.

Gibson will do more for this team's chances at winning one more than Jake has in nearly half a decade.

 

[BillyOcean]

Team probably could use a new goaltender other than JAF.

 

[wheelz87]

Like. I don’t even care who we protect. I don’t know how to fix this team. I don’t think you can. I’d rather just ride out the years than see one of our stars playing somewhere else. I thought 19/20 were outliers but they weren’t. Crosby has disappeared. Malkin can’t stay healthy. Ect.

Only guy I want to keep is Tanev. Don’t lose him. You think a guy like McCann is worth keeping. Dude should be on a milk carton. Along with half the team.

 

[66-30-33]

Posted in meltdown thread but we need a new goalie coach. We don’t have any goalie prospects close to ready, few assets to give up and great goalies aren’t being thrown around the trade market.

Was reading in the Canucks saga thread that Demko wants Canucks to keep his goalie coach around, if he goes what about him? Heard he's really good but got no clue about anything from him.

 

[66-30-33]

If you really wanna take a run at the Cup one more time this era, and you think your goaltending needs a significant upgrade, go out and get Gibson. Even if it costs you Jake.

Gibson will do more for this team's chances at winning one more than Jake has in nearly half a decade.

What would he even cost anyway? Jarry and Rust? more? less?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I hope Geno demands a trade for the last year of his current contract and maybe NHL career. Dude should get a better shot at the Cup than he's ever getting with this team again.

 

[JRS91]

Despite the new regime, I don't see any huge changes.

I can definitely see Sullivan being let go along with the entire coaching staff. Please get a new goalie coach. Finding a good goalie is hard, unless the Hextall plans on trying to get a reclamation project out of Carter Hart I don't see much change there. I think they stick with Jarry in a new system with a new goalie coach and hope it pays off.

Zucker and Pettersson should be gone. I would definitely consider moving Rust. I'd love to have Carter back next season, I'm not sure if he wants to stick around though. I'd like to see McCann and Blueger back. I sincerely hope they hire Gallant or someone decent with experience. I wish this organization would stop promoting within and actually hire an outside coach that isn't some longshot candidate like Johnston. We played around last time and lost out on Trotz, don't make that same mistake again.

 

[StaalForOne]

Posted in meltdown thread but we need a new goalie coach. We don’t have any goalie prospects close to ready, few assets to give up and great goalies aren’t being thrown around the trade market.

I like Ullmark as a UFA target, he's been most good on a completely trash team.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I don't really even care what happens one way or another this summer. Either Hexturke go all-in for one final season before it's all over next summer, trying to reshape the roster to be more playoff capable, or not. If they stand pat, which I think is probably the most realistic scenario--where only guys like Zucker or Petts are dealt--we're donezo. We've been treading water for going on 4 years, the core's 35 and getting older by the day, and we're one loss away from being eliminated in the 1st or 2nd round every year since the 2017 Cup.

Blow it up or take the power tools to the roster and try for one last run. But FFS, don't just shrug and keep these perennial losers like Jake, Rust or McCann around for the hell of it. Everyone should be shopped. Everyone.

 

[MayorofWBS]

Feels like there is too many holes to fix in just one off season.

Step One: Fire Sullivan, Buckley, Reirden and Vellucci as soon as the Penguins are done. The "system" sucks. How does Buckley even still have a job here?

Step Two: Hope the Oilers and Avs both flame out quickly too as both have some interesting prospects in a Rust trade.

Step Three: Somehow get Seattle to take either Petts or Zucker without having to pay them too.

Step Four: Move one or more of top 9 wingers before the ED. I want to protect Tavev the only winger who has balls while trying to force Seattle to take either Petts or Zucker.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'm just so bored of this team. They haven't done anything in years but the hockey world is so risk averse that they'll continue to stay the course and blame bounces.

I'd rather see Hexturke bring the team down to studs and bolts and have us miss the playoffs than to keep watching the same movie year after year on the off chance there's a different ending.

Hell, I hope Geno steps up and asks to be dealt to chase that 4th Cup. At least that'd be the catalyst for real change--not that Geno's been the problem against the Isles. Jake's a punk and a no-show. Rust has two shots from range and has otherwise been actively detrimental. McCann's a never-was and if he gets his head out of his ass, it'll be too late to matter this era. Zucker's a mess--and even though he's been better than most of our forwards in terms of work ethic and determination, points win games. Kapanen's in the same sorta boat Zucker is; all motor and no production. Jarry's a guy who probably needs more time before he's stable enough to backstop a playoff team chasing the Cup, but this organization doesn't have time anymore.

I'd like to see us move a bunch of parts out and grab guys who would be better suited to succeed in a playoff environment, but I'd be totally fine calling the end to the era and focusing on the near future--3 to 5 years.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Two things I want to see this off-season:
1-Get a goalie. I don't even care if this is reactionary or not, but f*** off with Jarry. The guy had a 30 game stretch where he played like a good starter, but outside of that he's been a mediocre starter.

2-Get some wingers who aren't tiny and can actually pick corners on shots. Enough with filling out our roster with Tyler Kennedy clones.