Salary Cap: Pens Summer Salary Thread: We Hayes Dubas's offseason moves so far

[Gurglesons]

I mean, he's made over $114mil PLUS all of his other stuff. I don't think Sid making $3mil this year or last is of any consequence.

Goodleaf? More like good grief.

You're a teacher, aren't you?

Ryder when he sees we're using negative Joe Biden images on HFBoards.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Enh, look how the team used the cap space created by Malkin and Letang taking discounts. I wouldn't take one either.

I think it's pretty funny if Sid convinced both to take paycuts and then goes for the maximum flex, lol.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Enh, look how the team used the cap space created by Malkin and Letang taking discounts. I wouldn't take one either.

For real. Everyone was all excited about freeing up that extra like 3-5M or thereabouts and I don't even remember what they ended up spending it on. Garbage, obviously.

 

[molon labe]

For real. Everyone was all excited about freeing up that extra like 3-5M or thereabouts and I don't even remember what they ended up spending it on. Garbage, obviously.

Jarry and Graves.

Cap spiked this year. We got ourselves a Kevin Hayes to replace Carter and a 2nd round pick.

If Sid takes a discount that money will likely go to another terrible goalie contract and Pettersson making too much for too long. Maybe 3 more Acciari-types in the bottom 6 to compete for 18th on the Penalty Kill in 2026-2027.

 

[HandshakeLine]

For real. Everyone was all excited about freeing up that extra like 3-5M or thereabouts and I don't even remember what they ended up spending it on. Garbage, obviously.

Lars Eller, the corpse of Jeff Carter, and the privilege of paying JJ for yet another year.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Hopefully they'll talk some sense into him and he can chase another cup while affording us an accelerated rebuild. Win-Win!

That 29th overall pick from Colorado will definitely accelerate the rebuild the Penguins have! They could even get a brand new Anthony Beauvillier with that pick!

Moving on from Crosby is stupid from any aspect you look at it. You only move on from him if he wants to leave, which he clearly doesn't.

 

[HandshakeLine]

More than Crosby, it's actually EK that I'm confused as to why we're holding on to him. He just doesn't seem to fit here, and I while I know we supposedly brought Quinn in to coach him back to form, I don't have high hopes for that experiment. He's not part of the core, he's got value-- why aren't we training with retention?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Jarry and Graves.

Cap spiked this year. We got ourselves a Kevin Hayes to replace Carter and a 2nd round pick.

If Sid takes a discount that money will likely go to another terrible goalie contract and Pettersson making too much for too long. Maybe 3 more Acciari-types in the bottom 6 to compete for 18th on the Penalty Kill in 2026-2027.

Lars Eller, the corpse of Jeff Carter, and the privilege of paying JJ for yet another year.

There's no barf emoji so here ya go. Deserving.

 

[Gurglesons]

More than Crosby, it's actually EK that I'm confused as to why we're holding on to him. He just doesn't seem to fit here, and I while I know we supposedly brought Quinn in to coach him back to form, I don't have high hopes for that experiment. He's not part of the core, he's got value-- why aren't we training with retention?

Don’t worry HSL after we completely tank his value this season we will do that.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

More than Crosby, it's actually EK that I'm confused as to why we're holding on to him. He just doesn't seem to fit here, and I while I know we supposedly brought Quinn in to coach him back to form, I don't have high hopes for that experiment. He's not part of the core, he's got value-- why aren't we training with retention?

lol because this team is totally full of shit. Rebuilding my eye. They are just slapping a "rebuilding" sticker on a badly mangled, years-botched roster to try to spitshine that turd.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think it's pretty funny if Sid convinced both to take paycuts and then goes for the maximum flex, lol.

I’m not sure Letang took a pay cut. Dude got another 35+ mil on his deal.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Anything can. Rolexes and fine watches are another classic technique for laundering smaller sums since they hold their value extremely well, are incredibly portable, and so forth.

Yeah I was semi being sarcastic but it can be done over time. Theres better ways though.

I’d love to have enough money to know the ins and outs of tax evasion.

 

[molon labe]

That 29th overall pick from Colorado will definitely accelerate the rebuild the Penguins have! They could even get a brand new Anthony Beauvillier with that pick!

Moving on from Crosby is stupid from any aspect you look at it. You only move on from him if he wants to leave, which he clearly doesn't.

Both are true.

The 29th from Colorado and our own pick going from 16th to 6th overall without Sid.

Everyone knows they're not going to sell Sid though - he's got to request the trade himself. Clearly he's worth his contract in dollars. His legacy in Pittsburgh is completely cemented regardless of where he spends the next 3, 4, 7 years.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Yeah I was semi being sarcastic but it can be done over time. Theres better ways though.

Depends on what you need to move and why. My wife works with the Rolex and Omega dealers here in Prague and they had to set quotas on the amount of watches tourists from certain areas can buy (China, Russia in particular) because people were buying like 10 of them.

But the all time classic borderline money laundering technique is real estate.

 

[SEALBound]

More than Crosby, it's actually EK that I'm confused as to why we're holding on to him. He just doesn't seem to fit here, and I while I know we supposedly brought Quinn in to coach him back to form, I don't have high hopes for that experiment. He's not part of the core, he's got value-- why aren't we training with retention?

Don't disagree but in reality, I don't think he's even worth as much as we paid for him a year later. Likely it means we take a dump or two back which doesn't help and it's a longer term retention slot. The teams that would want him likely can't fit him.

I think we are stuck until the final year of his deal.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Don’t worry HSL after we completely tank his value this season we will do that.

I'm not worried because that's not in the plan. The plan clearly says values only go up!

Don't disagree but in reality, I don't think he's even worth as much as we paid for him a year later. Likely it means we take a dump or two back which doesn't help and it's a longer term retention slot. The teams that would want him likely can't fit him.

I think we are stuck until the final year of his deal.

Yeah, which is why they brought in Quinn, I think. It's just insane that nobody even explored the idea of trading him despite the fact that he clearly doesn't mesh with Sullivan and all of a sudden, he's being treated like another core member.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm not going to belabor the point too much, but I really think people are out to lunch if they say moving on from Crosby somehow expedites the Penguins rebuild. I know this team is extremely uninspiring, but they're still not a truly bottom of the barrel team even if you subtract Crosby off the roster. They'd be bad without a doubt, but I think they'd be more in "7th or 8th worst team in hockey" territory instead of "worst team in hockey" territory.

Any sort of deal you'd make with Crosby will involve the Penguins taking back cap as well, and I'd imagine they'd get halfway decent players with the amount of cap they'd be sending out. Let's use Colorado as an example and say the deal was Crosby for Colton, Girard and a 2025 1st (which seems like a realistic return for what Crosby would bring back). You're still getting 2 halfway decent players back, which will prevent your team from getting worse, and the late 1st you'd get isn't going to tangibly move the needle for their rebuild. They still won't be bad enough to bottom out.

Both are true.

The 29th from Colorado and our own pick going from 16th to 6th overall without Sid.

Everyone knows they're not going to sell Sid though - he's got to request the trade himself. Clearly he's worth his contract in dollars. His legacy in Pittsburgh is completely cemented regardless of where he spends the next 3, 4, 7 years.

Increasing their pick from 16th to 6th (which seems like a reasonable estimate) isn't enough for this team to truly "bottom out" and get the top end talent it needs from a rebuild.

You're basically trading Crosby for a return that doesn't tangibly impact the team in the long-run, while you're also not getting bad enough to truly bottom out and get the franchise pieces you need. At that point, what's the point of moving him?

 

[HandshakeLine]

I don't think there's any way we get even serious about a rebuild except by accident. FSG seems determined to try to thread this needle, but I think it's just going to put us, at best, in a Toronto-esque situation: proverbial playoff attendees, but not serious contenders; bad enough to draft in the top half of the draft, but not bad enough to get a franchise altering player except by accident.

 

[Tom Hanks]

More than Crosby, it's actually EK that I'm confused as to why we're holding on to him. He just doesn't seem to fit here, and I while I know we supposedly brought Quinn in to coach him back to form, I don't have high hopes for that experiment. He's not part of the core, he's got value-- why aren't we training with retention?

It’s the NMC that would limit the teams he’d go to then they’d need to a) want him, b) have the capspace

Given he has 3 years left I imagine any significant retention we would want a hell of a lot in trade (more than teams would probably want to give).

His wife being from Ottawa they probably don’t want to stray too far from there.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't think there's any way we get even serious about a rebuild except by accident. FSG seems determined to try to thread this needle, but I think it's just going to put us, at best, in a Toronto-esque situation: proverbial playoff attendees, but not serious contenders; bad enough to draft in the top half of the draft, but not bad enough to get a franchise altering player except by accident.

Dubas is definitely running us like a big market Canadian team right now.

Too scared to do anything otherwise we will miss out on ticket sales without realizing this isn't a Canadian market and people will stop coming if we are not making the playoffs even with the core.

 

[SEALBound]

That 29th overall pick from Colorado will definitely accelerate the rebuild the Penguins have! They could even get a brand new Anthony Beauvillier with that pick!

Moving on from Crosby is stupid from any aspect you look at it. You only move on from him if he wants to leave, which he clearly doesn't.

Indeed...though I think the hope there is that, in addition to getting the 1st from Colorado, it also means a top 5 pick for us...with the BIG HOPE that it's 1st OV to take Hagen.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

More than Crosby, it's actually EK that I'm confused as to why we're holding on to him. He just doesn't seem to fit here, and I while I know we supposedly brought Quinn in to coach him back to form, I don't have high hopes for that experiment. He's not part of the core, he's got value-- why aren't we training with retention?

I think Karlsson could be a trade chip next summer, if they decide to go that route.

Right now, I think it's mostly logistics and cap management that makes moving him a non-starter.

Next year, the Petry and Smith retention hits expire. And Karlsson will have just two years left on his contract. Two years at $7.5 million cap hit, with 25% retained, is a lot more attractive to teams.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't think there's any way we get even serious about a rebuild except by accident. FSG seems determined to try to thread this needle, but I think it's just going to put us, at best, in a Toronto-esque situation: proverbial playoff attendees, but not serious contenders; bad enough to draft in the top half of the draft, but not bad enough to get a franchise altering player except by accident.

I think it's too early to make that claim. We don't know how this team is going to operate once Crosby and Malkin retire. We know they won't want to tear it down while they're here, but I doubt that same mindset will exist once Crosby and Malkin retire.

Indeed...though I think the hope there is that, in addition to getting the 1st from Colorado, it also means a top 5 pick for us...with the BIG HOPE that it's 1st OV to take Hagen.

You're not going to be nearly bad enough to be in the 1st overall talk unless you get insanely lucky with the draft lottery.

 

[Ryder71]

That 29th overall pick from Colorado will definitely accelerate the rebuild the Penguins have! They could even get a brand new Anthony Beauvillier with that pick!

Moving on from Crosby is stupid from any aspect you look at it. You only move on from him if he wants to leave, which he clearly doesn't.

Oh honey child, it would take a lot more than 29OA to consummate such a deal.

Keeping Crosby does nothing for the long term viability and competitiveness of this team. You're letting your sentimentality override common sense. This team is going nowhere with these dinosaurs, the last two seasons should have aptly shown you that.

 

[molon labe]

I'm not going to belabor the point too much, but I really think people are out to lunch if they say moving on from Crosby somehow expedites the Penguins rebuild. I know this team is extremely uninspiring, but they're still not a truly bottom of the barrel team even if you subtract Crosby off the roster. They'd be bad without a doubt, but I think they'd be more in "7th or 8th worst team in hockey" territory instead of "worst team in hockey" territory.

Any sort of deal you'd make with Crosby will involve the Penguins taking back cap as well, and I'd imagine they'd get halfway decent players with the amount of cap they'd be sending out. Let's use Colorado as an example and say the deal was Crosby for Colton, Girard and a 2025 1st (which seems like a realistic return for what Crosby would bring back). You're still getting 2 halfway decent players back, which will prevent your team from getting worse, and the late 1st you'd get isn't going to tangibly move the needle for their rebuild. They still won't be bad enough to bottom out.



Increasing their pick from 16th to 6th (which seems like a reasonable estimate) isn't enough for this team to truly "bottom out" and get the top end talent it needs from a rebuild.

I agree. I also don't particularly see any generational names on the horizon that are worth going full blown 'worst in the league for' - but historically drafting top 8 has pretty damn good results.

Difference in your Elias Pettersson's, Matthew Tkachuk, Mitch Marner's etc. I know there's plenty of cases of top 10 draft picks busting, and plenty of cases of late rounders being absolute steals - but the difference isn't necessarily something to scoff at.

The team is more likely to be successful drafting top 5-10 in the next 3-4 drafts than not. As an added bonus, logically, it's better to gradually slip than fall flat. A Bedard can turn your franchise around in a couple seasons. You can accumulate several top 10 picks THEN land Bedard (still) as those players are either not yet ready or not good enough to carry a team.

More than one way to skin the cat here - but certainly pushing that top 10 is better than falling later in the round. Top 7 especially *usually*