GDT: Pens 2024 Trade Deadline Thread: Jake Shake Talk here

[Wattsburgh]

How much should he have gotten for 1/4 season of Guentzel?
Quantity isn't a bad idea in our situation. Eventually you hit on a few if you load up.
Bunting at 4.5M for 3 years is fairly reasonable, especially with the cap on the rise. If things go well for him here then he has trade value later too.

Even if they got a guaranteed 1st from Carolina, it would have been a late one. I think in this draft that doesn't mean much more than 2nd rounders. It's gonna be a thin draft.

He was the NUMBER 1 Trade Target available. I’d say at least a solid first. Don’t care for how long it is. GMs treat today like Christmas and Dubas is the Grinch. Simple as that.

 

[Lust for Life]

I'm surprised people are even that upset about this trade considering Sullivan will ruin everything anyway

 

[OtherThingsILike]

The issue to the return is there is no rhyme or reason to it.

The prospects are not in the age group where they can help with a rebuild,

They're not supposed to help with a rebuild, they're supposed to help us compete next season.
Whether or not they'll be able to do so is another story, but the goal of this trade was not to begin a rebuild.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

He was the NUMBER 1 Trade Target available. I’d say at least a solid first. Don’t care for how long it is. GMs treat today like Christmas and Dubas is the Grinch. Simple as that.

Carolina are currently 8th best in the league. That means drafting 25th.
25th is not much different than 40th in this thin draft. So don't stress about it. It's a crapshoot at that point. These scouts aren't that accurate.
When you're drafting in those ranges it's best to just get quantity to increase your odds.

Last year was a strong draft but that was more of an outlier, not the norm.

 

[Lust for Life]

If anything this trade should make us worse which will help in getting that top 10 pick this year

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I kinda mourn the loss of Ty Smith without actually giving him a fair shot, but I know Sullivan wasn't gonna give him that, so w/e.

 

[Wattsburgh]

I'm surprised people are even that upset about this trade considering Sullivan will ruin everything anyway

I have to keep repeating this to myself every time I think about this trade.

 

[Sideline]

I had never heard of any of Carolina's prospects so I won't pretend to have any idea if this trade is good or not.

I will judge Dubas on how many more vets he disposes of today.

 

[Lust for Life]

I had never heard of any of Carolina's prospects so I won't pretend to have any idea if this trade is good or not.

I will judge Dubas on how many more vets he disposes of today.

It's impossible judging prospects deals immediately. There can absolutely be an argument for or against getting prospects as the return, but we will have to see where they end up in a few years.

I do however want to see him go a bit scorched earth today. Might as well try and get as much flexibility as possible for the summer while getting a high draft pick this year.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Bunts will be fine. He goes to the net, skates well, has a Dupuis type of game and I won't be shocked if he thrives just because Sullivan will desperately try him with Sid or Geno and it'll work.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

The melodrama around a hockey trade is insane. It’s not that bad.

Pens have needed to strip this thing down for a long time. Regardless of what you think of the pieces, this is a step in the right direction.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

So we got a bunch of lottery tickets and a crappy player for our 40-goal scorer? Meh.

 

[OnMyOwn]

The melodrama around a hockey trade is insane. It’s not that bad.

Pens have needed to strip this thing down for a long time. Regardless of what you think of the pieces, this is a step in the right direction.

I like Bunting and thought we would have signed him this year, but he picked CAR. I also think at least 2 of the prospects will be decent with one of them being in the nhl for the rest of the season or at least starting next year in Pittsburgh.

It’s not worth getting so bent out of shape over prospects I’m betting 99% of this board didn’t even know existed because some shitty “insiders” said we were getting different prospects 99% of this board also never heard of.

 

[Coastal Kev]

So we got a bunch of lottery tickets and a crappy player for our 40-goal scorer? Meh.

At least we got something….see McCann.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I'm still catching up on the thread (I'm like 25 pages behind), but the trade is just "okay". It turns to pretty good if the Canes win the Cup and Jake re-signs with the Pens.

And I do think most people are underrating Pono and Koivunen. Pono should make the team next season and Koivunen may need to stew in the AHL for a little bit.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

That is what prospects are...lottery tickets. Just like draft picks. So the more you have, the greater you make your odds of someone panning out. If we got an extra prospect or two in this trade because Carolina was unwilling to move prospect X or Y, then good on Dubas. We need prospects desperately. We need picks desperately (but we seem to be allergic to acquiring those).

I would like to see us nab a right defense prospect in any move today, and then picks picks and more picks.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

For anyone trying to rationalize the return on this trade, keep in mind that a few short years ago we paid an unconditional 1st round pick and Calen Addison for Jason Zucker, who was coming off a bad year and has never done anything in the playoffs.

And Dubas couldn't even manage an unconditional 1st or a top Canes prospect for a playoff stud at a deadline where there was nothing comparable out there.

This was a reaming. Shameful.

 

[TimmyD]

Right now Dubas has earned a solid F. Today can bring his grade up depending on what he does. Smith, Rakell, Ned, Acciari, Eller should all go today. Potentially Jarry and Petts as well.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

For anyone trying to rationalize the return on this trade, keep in mind that a few short years ago we paid an unconditional 1st round pick and Calen Addison for Jason Zucker, who was coming off a bad year and has never done anything in the playoffs.

And Dubas couldn't even manage an unconditional 1st or a top Canes prospect for a playoff stud at a deadline where there was nothing comparable out there.

This was a reaming. Shameful.

But the Zucker trade was terrible, so.

 

[Victor Z]

You have to be of "boomer" age to remember this one, but the Jake deal reminds me of when the Pirates traded future Hall of Famer Bert Blyleven to the Indians in 1980 for a group of nobodies (Gary Alexander, Victor Cruz, Bob Owchinko and Rafael Vazquez) that were dubbed the "Tijuana Brass". We'd have been better off if Cleveland threw in Herb Alpert too.

For a more contemporary comparison to this underwhelming outcome, we'll have to see which one of this bag of mediocre magic beans is the new Kris Beech, which one is the new Ross Lupaschuk and which is the new Michael Sivek.

For Bunting's part, he's supposed to be a skilled forward version of Mark Friedman (pest, irritant, "heart on his sleeve" type), but whatever physical play he's displayed in previous years seems to no longer exist (as if Sully would tolerate that anyway) though because of his past reputation Bunting is still often a marked man by the refs so that's a nice tradeoff -- play vanilla-soft and STILL wind up in the box.

Bunting is basically the new Brock McGinn, except hopefully this version will look better because he's going to get a top-6 chance from here on out and probably lots of PP1 time. That's the one place where he's looked OK for Carolina this season.

 

[NCPens]

Michael Bunting is not Jake but he is a solid NHL player that has scored 20+ goals twice in this league. Reasonable to say he gets there again playing with Sid or Geno. Him along with the 3 prospects that all slot higher with the Pens than Hurricanes is a decent return. Even if the pick ends up being the Flyers second I am ok with it.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

So I mean - I can agree with most of the Guentzel lore - but he is not in the same hemisphere as those two.

Where was Jake in '18, '19, and '20? We all complained about how turtle'd he got in those series. He had a banger of a series against NY - we were juicing and Sid was insane too....but let's not pretend he literally tilts the game like MacK and Drai.

And this has zero, literally zero to do with re-signing or not re-signing Jake. Frankly, getting assets THEN pitching a contract is the best gamble you can take. Why the sam F do you offer him a contract now, forego any assets - just to ice the same loser ass roster next year? Things need to change - so if we're arguing anything, perhaps it's the order of operations for that change. Should the coaches and other players have gone first? Sure. But that's not where were at....

But we're also not trading a guy that's changed the course of that success for seven years now.

Nobody said he was. But those are the only players with better active records, and they're not going anywhere.

Where were any Pens players in 19, 20, and 21? Guentzel's no less consistent in the playoffs than Crosby, for crying out loud.

Something needed to change. The last thing that needed to change was our only winger who was a scoring threat, and especially when the return was so pathetic. Doesn't help us now or later. We just gave Carolina a playoff killer for literal scraps.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

For anyone trying to rationalize the return on this trade, keep in mind that a few short years ago we paid an unconditional 1st round pick and Calen Addison for Jason Zucker, who was coming off a bad year and has never done anything in the playoffs.

And Dubas couldn't even manage an unconditional 1st or a top Canes prospect for a playoff stud at a deadline where there was nothing comparable out there.

This was a reaming. Shameful.

Ponomarev - drafted right where Addison was and is further along than Addison was at the time. I’d say slightly more valuable than Addison at the time.

Koivunen - drafted right where Addison was and having more post draft success, albeit in Europe. Let’s call him equal to Addison to be fair (I would say he’s ahead but whatever).

Lucius - PPG player in NCAA with significant flaws. I’d say that’s very similar to how Addison profiled but let’s say he’s slightly less valuable bc wingers < D and he was picked later.

Bunting has incredibly similar stats to Zucker as well but story for another day.

Just bc Addison was higher up in our pool didn’t make him a “top” prospect vs who we just got. I’d say we got 2.5 Addisons in this deal for a rental.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

For anyone trying to rationalize the return on this trade, keep in mind that a few short years ago we paid an unconditional 1st round pick and Calen Addison for Jason Zucker, who was coming off a bad year and has never done anything in the playoffs.

And Dubas couldn't even manage an unconditional 1st or a top Canes prospect for a playoff stud at a deadline where there was nothing comparable out there.

This was a reaming. Shameful.

You do realize that Zucker wasn't a rental?

 

[Zero Pucks]

For anyone trying to rationalize the return on this trade, keep in mind that a few short years ago we paid an unconditional 1st round pick and Calen Addison for Jason Zucker, who was coming off a bad year and has never done anything in the playoffs.

And Dubas couldn't even manage an unconditional 1st or a top Canes prospect for a playoff stud at a deadline where there was nothing comparable out there.

This was a reaming. Shameful.

Zucker wasn't a rental though. He had multiple years left of his contract at a pretty reasonable cap-hit, which was why JR paid a premium for him.