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GDT: Pens at Caps Sat Jan 18 @ 7pm

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HandshakeLine said:
They’re doing a variation of what we’re doing except actually successfully for reasons we won’t think too deeply about.
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Sure but they also got extremely lucky.

Backstrom and Oshie were declining hard and now both are on retired LTIR. That’s like 15 mill in free space. With them around there’s no chycrun and dubios etc.

Strome worked out really well as a UFA for them too.

Like all retools luck is a huge part in the NHL.
 
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HandshakeLine said:
They’re doing a variation of what we’re doing except actually successfully for reasons we won’t think too deeply about.
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The Capitals haven't won a playoff series since their Cup win. They made it back to the playoffs last year and are playing well this year, but let's not get too far ahead.

Also, the Capitals were forced into this state earlier because Backstrom and Oshie are essentially LTIR-retired. But they've really only been in sell mode for two years - 2022-23, when they missed the playoffs; and last year, when they were kind of buyers and sellers at the same time.

The Pens are essentially a year behind the Capitals' timeline. Firing Sullivan would be an important step, too.
 
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Darren McCord said:
Sure but they also got extremely lucky.

Backstrom and Oshie were declining hard and now both are on retired LTIR. That’s like 15 mill in free space. With them around there’s no chycrun and dubios etc.

Strome worked out really well as a UFA for them too.

Like all retools luck is a huge part in the NHL.
Click to expand...
Backstrom was their best player until he got the surgery. Oshie had a higher PPG last year than Mangiapane this year and their cap hit is virtually identical. Strome was a UFA for anyone to sign. Chychrun was traded for Jensen+ who had a difference of $500k in cap hit.

Dubois has been unreal for them and wouldn’t have been possible without the Backstrom LTIR. But if Backstrom wasn’t hurt/LTIR possible he’s likely still a top 6 center. Better than Dubois right now? Probably not. But if you’re assuming he didn’t have the injury (so he wouldn’t have been LTIR possible), his overall game was aging better than Ovechkin at the time who is still extremely productive. The other moves are all still possible, save the Mangiapane on line 3/4 for Oshie swap which isn’t a difference maker. The Thompson, Lindgren, Sandin, TVR, Raddysh, and Duhaime deals could have been made by almost every other team. Other than that, it’s been Protas and McMichael’s development. Calling them lucky is just an extreme cope/cop out.
 
DesertedPenguin said:
The Capitals haven't won a playoff series since their Cup win. They made it back to the playoffs last year and are playing well this year, but let's not get too far ahead.

Also, the Capitals were forced into this state earlier because Backstrom and Oshie are essentially LTIR-retired. But they've really only been in sell mode for two years - 2022-23, when they missed the playoffs; and last year, when they were kind of buyers and sellers at the same time.

The Pens are essentially a year behind the Capitals' timeline. Firing Sullivan would be an important step, too.
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How many play off series have we won since their cup win?
 
caps4cup said:
Backstrom was their best player until he got the surgery. Oshie had a higher PPG last year than Mangiapane this year and their cap hit is virtually identical. Strome was a UFA for anyone to sign. Chychrun was traded for Jensen+ who had a difference of $500k in cap hit.

Dubois has been unreal for them and wouldn’t have been possible without the Backstrom LTIR. But if Backstrom wasn’t hurt/LTIR possible he’s likely still a top 6 center. Better than Dubois right now? Probably not. But if you’re assuming he didn’t have the injury (so he wouldn’t have been LTIR possible), his overall game was aging better than Ovechkin at the time who is still extremely productive. The other moves are all still possible, save the Mangiapane on line 3/4 for Oshie swap which isn’t a difference maker. The Thompson, Lindgren, Sandin, TVR, Raddysh, and Duhaime deals could have been made by almost every other team. Other than that, it’s been Protas and McMichael’s development. Calling them lucky is just an extreme cope/cop out.
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The point is they're not lingering around playing mediocre hockey taking up 15M in space.

It'd be like if during points in the season last year Malkin, Letang and Carter all got LTIRd and Dubi had an extra 15M to play with this summer.

Without that space, you can't move Kuemper and take on Dubious. You can't get Chic or Roy either. WSH is getting praised for the big swings that are working out this season, but you can't take big swings w/o the cap space to do it.

IMO, the coaching change is a huge part of the success but you got extremely lucky with those two guys getting LTIRd.
 
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caps4cup said:
Backstrom was their best player until he got the surgery. Oshie had a higher PPG last year than Mangiapane this year and their cap hit is virtually identical. Strome was a UFA for anyone to sign. Chychrun was traded for Jensen+ who had a difference of $500k in cap hit.

Dubois has been unreal for them and wouldn’t have been possible without the Backstrom LTIR. But if Backstrom wasn’t hurt/LTIR possible he’s likely still a top 6 center. Better than Dubois right now? Probably not. But if you’re assuming he didn’t have the injury (so he wouldn’t have been LTIR possible), his overall game was aging better than Ovechkin at the time who is still extremely productive. The other moves are all still possible, save the Mangiapane on line 3/4 for Oshie swap which isn’t a difference maker. The Thompson, Lindgren, Sandin, TVR, Raddysh, and Duhaime deals could have been made by almost every other team. Other than that, it’s been Protas and McMichael’s development. Calling them lucky is just an extreme cope/cop out.
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So much of this just isn't true.

Backstrom last three seasons were awful and probably due to health problems which happens as you get older. He was not aging well. He was injury prone and his ictime and points were going done. You can say it's from injury but you don't know when or how players will drop off. His last 90 games was 53 points. And that was all he played in the last four years.

And Oshie was declining every year. Your just assuming he would still put up those numbers at age 38.

Protas and McMichael’s develop has been great but that doesnt chance capital got extremely lucky that they can put 15 mill in cap on LTIR.
 
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DesertedPenguin said:
The Capitals haven't won a playoff series since their Cup win. They made it back to the playoffs last year and are playing well this year, but let's not get too far ahead.

Also, the Capitals were forced into this state earlier because Backstrom and Oshie are essentially LTIR-retired. But they've really only been in sell mode for two years - 2022-23, when they missed the playoffs; and last year, when they were kind of buyers and sellers at the same time.

The Pens are essentially a year behind the Capitals' timeline. Firing Sullivan would be an important step, too.
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The Pens also make trades for dorks like Gryz and Beau to return picks while Caps acquire players like Edmundson, Mangiapane, and Chychrun.

The Caps draft players that actually play in the NHL.

The Caps sign and make high reward deals like Dubois and Strome.
 
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Gurglesons said:
The Pens also make trades for dorks like Gryz and Beau to return picks while Caps acquire players like Edmundson, Mangiapane, and Chychrun.

The Caps draft players that actually play in the NHL.

The Caps sign and make high reward deals like Dubois and Strome.
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The Caps have the stars aligning but the big thing is for sure the drafting.

Mangiapane makes 6 mill and is on pace for like 30 points. Lets not pretend all there moves are working out. If the pens signed that he would be hated here. He would be hated in WSH too if they were winning.

They caps have had a lot of luck but are making a lot of that luck on their own too.
 
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Darren McCord said:
The Caps have the stars aligning but the big thing is for sure the drafting.

Mangiapane makes 6 mill and is on pace for like 30 points. Lets not pretend all there moves are working out. If the pens signed that he would be hated here. He would be hated in WSH too if they were winning.

They caps have had a lot of luck but are making a lot of that luck on their own too.
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Reducing the Caps success to stars aligning or LTIR is so dumb.

Caps make their own luck.
 
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Gurglesons said:
Reducing the Caps success to stars aligning or LTIR is so dumb.

Caps make their own luck.
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Dude I literal said that they make a lot their own luck in my post. Doesnt mean that they also didnt get lucky too.

If anything most of this shines a light on how awful Rutherford's drafting is. He blew the drafts from 2016-2019. Meanwhile the Caps crushed 2019 as a whole.
 
This team's definitely bad enough to drop to top 5, especially if they're smart and move a couple pieces prior to the TDL. They were hovering bottom 3 before a little bit of a run there.

They're dreadful defensively, pretty anemic offensively, have shit coaching, and no depth. /shrug

-edit- Also I simmed the tankathon lotto once and the Pens jumped to 1st OA so, get ready to get your Martone/Hagens/Schaefer jersey. :laugh:
 
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eXile3 said:
I don’t know, this might be who they are. Even if they trade MP, without a major exodus of talent we’re not picking higher then 8.
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They can easily be the 2nd worst team in the entire East by the end of the year. Hell Buffalo could get a little hot and make us the worst.

Handful of West teams are close or within striking distance of finishing better.

The only two teams that we won’t get to is Chicago and San Jose. Outside of that, anything can happen.

Trade MP, get whatever you can for guys like Hayes, Glass, Acciari, Nieto (probably a pack of donuts for the lot), force some young guys into the lineup and let them learn and take their lumps while losing.

This franchise desperately needs some high end pics.
 
How can anyone address the Caps vs Penguins saga without also addressing the elephant in the room? Come on Dan…a huge part of the makeover was firing the head coach lol…something the Pens have needed longer than the Caps…

pittsburghhockeynow.com

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The heartbreak and realizations inside the Pittsburgh Penguins dressing room Saturday night were palpable. From coach Mike Sullivan’s subtle shift in tense and tone to captain Sidney Crosby’s trailing voice, the loss to the Washington Capitals was a hard punch to the gut. The fight they’ve waged...
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