GDT: Pens 2024 Trade Deadline Thread: Jake Shake Talk here

[pistolpete11]

I think people also forget that Guentzel himself didn't really start popping off until he was like 21 in the NCAA. I don't think you can count on that type of development and it's why I'm not the biggest fan of the trade, but it's certainly possible and they got 3 guys that are kind of in line with where Guentzel was at their ages.

Definitely hoping that one can take that step or this trade won't look great, but if 1 turns into a top 6 player and 1 turns into a regular NHLer, I think that would be a solid return for the Pens.

Guentzel

• Age 19 in NCAA : 7G 27A 34P in 37 games
• Age 20 in NCAA : 14G 25A 39P in 36 games
• Age 21 in NCAA : 19G 27A 46P in 35 games
• Age 22 in AHL : 21G 21A 42P in 33 games

Koivunen

• Age 19 in Liiga : 11G 18A 29P in 53 games
• Age 20 in Liiga : 12G 16A 28P in 52 games
• Age 21 in Liiga : 21G 34A 55P in 57 games
  • Really took a big step this year in a man's league

Ponomarev

• Age 19 in AHL : 3G 7A 10P in 11 games
• Age 20 in AHL : 24G 22A 46P in 64 games
• Age 21 in AHL : 8G 21A 29P in 39 games

Lucius

• Age 18 in NCAA : 11G 23A 34P in 34 games
• Age 19 in NCAA : 12G 19A 31P in 32 games

 

[McGroarty2]

Bro you said

“even Zucker got an unconditional 1st and Addison. Dubas couldn’t get an unconditional 1st and top prospect”

That is referring to Addison as a top prospect. I can’t read your mind.

Zucker is such a bad comp given the contractual status anyway.

Zucker had term.

 

[pistolpete11]

I think we are also forgetting the fact that Jake probably PICKED Carolina, it wouldn't shock me if Dubas asked for his input and where he'd like to go out of respect and this is what occured

Well, he shouldn't have done that unless they agreed to re-sign him in FA.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

The return the Penguins got for Guentzel is effectively the same return that the Devils got for Hall, but with a guaranteed 1st instead of a conditional one.

The deal is a C that would probably be a B if the 1st was guaranteed. Anyone saying it’s worse than that doesn’t pay attention to what rentals actually get traded for.

Canes fans have been adamant on the main boards that the Penguins got a good haul here. I have no reason to not believe them when they say that, their fans are the best on this website IMO.

If it makes people feel better lower firsts more often than not never become anything special. Forty percent of all firsts never play 200 games. And for the bottom half of the first it is even worse. So better prospects who have developed are more valuable:

Odds not great for NHL draft picks - Guelph Storm

by Paul Osborne, Guelph Tribune National Hockey League general managers like the Toronto Maple Leafs Brian Burke is working the phones and debriefing his scouts in order to secure players that will help his organization for many years to come. The tr...

chl.ca

Of the 2,600 hundred players drafted just 494 or 19% played in at least 200 contests. 63% of first round picks played but less than 25% of second round picks survived and only 12% of third rounder selections

 

[Empoleon8771]

On re-signing Guentzel, I was all for it when I thought this team was worth retooling and it could be salvaged. But honestly, their performance against the Flames, Oilers and Capitals convinced me that this team is rotten and should just be nuked. It was always unlikely, but those 3 games convinced me this team is absolutely spent and should be going for a major rebuild.

I would have loved to re-sign Guentzel, trade Rakell and tried a retool about 10 days ago. Now? Nuke this team into orbit. I’d still be happy if Guentzel came back in UFA obviously, because I like Guentzel, but I see nothing with this team that suggests they should do anything but a major rebuild.

 

[Terrapin]

I am just so glad that my Xfinity package no longer carries the games. I refuse to upgrade my package to watch this garbage organization.

How Sullivan and the idiot 'in charge' of the PP are still employed is as great of mystery as 'what is the meaning of life'.

I thought Hextall was the worst GM of all time. Naturally we replace him with a clown that says 'hold my beer'.

A few mid level prospects and (likely) a 2nd round pick for the 'prize' of the trade deadline is an abomination. But it's par for the course for this organization.

 

[eXile3]

It looks pretty apparent Jake wanted to stay and the team was never serious about keeping him. The best move was to resign him given the package.

 

[Allie Kitsune]

On re-signing Guentzel, I was all for it when I thought this team was worth retooling and it could be salvaged. But honestly, their performance against the Flames, Oilers and Capitals convinced me that this team is rotten and should just be nuked. It was always unlikely, but those 3 games convinced me this team is absolutely spent and should be going for a major rebuild.

I would have loved to re-sign Guentzel, trade Rakell and tried a retool about 10 days ago. Now? Nuke this team into orbit. I’d still be happy if Guentzel came back in UFA obviously, because I like Guentzel, but I see nothing with this team that suggests they should do anything but a major rebuild.

Sullivan needs to be gone in said nuking.

And FSG and Dubas have given zero indication that that's going to happen.

 

[OnMyOwn]

I’m very interested in koivunen. He may really be something.

 

[Pens x]

Sullivan needs to be gone in said nuking.

And FSG and Dubas have given zero indication that that's going to happen.

Dubas and FSG need to be nuked too

 

[pistolpete11]

On re-signing Guentzel, I was all for it when I thought this team was worth retooling and it could be salvaged. But honestly, their performance against the Flames, Oilers and Capitals convinced me that this team is rotten and should just be nuked. It was always unlikely, but those 3 games convinced me this team is absolutely spent and should be going for a major rebuild.

I would have loved to re-sign Guentzel, trade Rakell and tried a retool about 10 days ago. Now? Nuke this team into orbit. I’d still be happy if Guentzel came back in UFA obviously, because I like Guentzel, but I see nothing with this team that suggests they should do anything but a major rebuild.

If they can re-sign him, they still should.

At this point, I think it's clear they have given up on Sullivan. People started pumping that narrative too early and it was really just the system and the PP sucked, but they were playing relatively hard. Now, they have given up.

Try it with a new coach and if they still suck in a couple of years, then trade Guenzel again.

 

[Merc29]

Sullivan needs to be gone in said nuking.

And FSG and Dubas have given zero indication that that's going to happen.

100% agree, Dubas could have scored 4 of Carolina’s top 5 prospects. Still receives an F on the year as long as Sully is behind that bench.. a few months ago, I was on the “hey he’s a good coach, we just need a fresh breath” now it’s, “get him the frig outta there!”

 

[pensfan71]

 

[Icarium]

Why the f*** would anyone, let alone a guy with Guentzel's skills and playoff pedigree would want to come back to this circus?

 

[Pens x]

Remind me why the f*** Jake would ever sign here? This organization is in shambles, and nothing will change.

 

[MrBrightside]

You can't compare this trade to the Zucker trade, but you can compare it to Henrique or Sean Walker. Doesn't look super in that regard.

 

[pistolpete11]

Why the f*** would anyone, let alone a guy with Guentzel's skills and playoff pedigree would want to come back to this circus?

Because he knows where the good restaurants are and his gloves are already broken in.

 

[pensfan71]

From Chris Johnstone on the Athletic

 

[MrBrightside]

If they can re-sign him, they still should.

At this point, I think it's clear they have given up on Sullivan. People started pumping that narrative too early and it was really just the system and the PP sucked, but they were playing relatively hard. Now, they have given up.

Try it with a new coach and if they still suck in a couple of years, then trade Guenzel again.

I'm not as "Sullivan is the root of all evil" as many on here are but this team has clearly quit on him. You cannot just keep running this back with this staff. You cannot. The Caps are in basically the same position and they cared 100x more.

 

[SomeDude]

They really don’t. They have to give raises to a bunch of good players and sign/trade for a legit 2C next season.

I’ll be shocked if Guentzel signs in Carolina.

Repeating it doesn’t make it true. Carolina will push to keep him and if he doesn’t it will be because he doesn’t want to be there not because they can’t fit him under the cap.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

It's incredibly easy to call Zucker mediocre in hindsight. That was not the opinion of him when he was acquired.

Yes, it was. I have my receipts.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

The pick is 25 to 50 it’s the same thing dude.

This is my point about the drama. I’m not even advocating it was more than a B trade but this board is a bunch of babies over not paying a complimentary winger a huge contract during a period where they’re not going to be competitive and trading him for picks instead.

It definitely skews quantity over quality BUT Dubas got a LOT of quantity for a rental. Not one piece in this deal (besides the 5th) is a zero value throw in.

I truly think the reaction is different if the media didn’t f*** up with Blake and Morrow.

And I like I said I think it was a fine trade. Not great not horrible.

We squeezed the best years out of Guentzel for dirt cheap, and are moving him when he’s gonna get expensive. It’s fine not to like it but the collective meltdown is f***ing insane.

It's not. It's why teams are loathe to give out 1sts, and trade 2 2nds to get into the 1st round.

We gave up an irreplaceable, premium asset. We presumably want to try to contend during the rest of the core's time here. This trade does absolutely nothing to help that, now or later.

 

[pensfan71]

I got a great chuckle comparing these two players prior to them getting traded here at the deadline, give a guess as to who is who this does make me laugh at the trade even though I'm trying to be positive

 

[MayorofWBS]

Glad I went to bed....what a directionless, spineless move by our man-child GM and owners. I can't believe those dipsh1ts took on another one of these meandering NHL vet winger WITH TERM, retained money on Jake and gave up a younger player themselves (and the closest one to being in the NHL of all the young guys swapped) and still could not get a clear cut first round draft pick nor any of the Canes B level prospects out of it. What a joke of an organization!

It's going to be a long, long, long summer for the fans. There is literally nothing to get excited about. Nothing!

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Guentzel

• Age 19 in NCAA : 7G 27A 34P in 37 games
• Age 20 in NCAA : 14G 25A 39P in 36 games
• Age 21 in NCAA : 19G 27A 46P in 35 games
• Age 22 in AHL : 21G 21A 42P in 33 games

For a third round pick, those freshman and sophomore numbers were really good. Plus I think he was either the team leader or close to it. I could look it up but I'll just let someone correct me if I'm wrong.