GDT: Pens 2024 Trade Deadline Thread: Jake Shake Talk here

[Le Magnifique 66]

Currently, the Pens have one spot available to retain this year and 2 spots next year.

Aren't we at 3 or am I missing something here?
Guentzel, JJ, Petry?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Do you even remember what we traded Hossa for? And Hossa was one of the top players in the league at the time too. A super late first round pick and two very meh youngish NHL players. All the posters crying about this return really need a reality check.

Do you remember that trade?

We traded our 1st from the year before, our upcoming 1st, a 25 year old former 1st rounder who was playing regular NHL minutes, and a 24 year old playing regular NHL minutes.

This deal isn't close to that.

 

[pensfan71]

Aren't we at 3 or am I missing something here?
Guentzel, JJ, Petry?

JJ is a buyout

 

[Dominance]

Not sure if it has been stated in this monster of a thread yet, but the difference between pick 28-32 and pick 45-50 is astoundingly minimal.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

JJ is a buyout

I was under the impression both counted for a total of 3 per team

 

[TimmyD]

The return the Penguins got for Guentzel is effectively the same return that the Devils got for Hall, but with a guaranteed 1st instead of a conditional one.

The deal is a C that would probably be a B if the 1st was guaranteed. Anyone saying it’s worse than that doesn’t pay attention to what rentals actually get traded for.

Canes fans have been adamant on the main boards that the Penguins got a good haul here. I have no reason to not believe them when they say that, their fans are the best on this website IMO.

You were literally fighting Canuck fans on the main board saying they would do better then the Hall trade

 

[PensFutures]

Oh? Do you remember what our wing situation looked like pre-Guentzel?

Who are we getting to replace him?

Just let Malkin skate with Spaling and Comeau. And if Spaling sucks, we can move Comeau to his LW and try Jason Williams or Chuck Kobasew on RW.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Can't wait to see the 1st rounders roll in for Smith and Rakell.

You know, since term matters more than quality, established with the Zucker deal.

 

[pensfan71]

i guess i only had one thought when i saw the trade, and someone can tell me why it's a dumb take:

every time i read someone talk about a Carolina prospect, the first thing someone said was, "they'll be ready for the NHL next year." This was said about 8 different players, including 2 of the 3 we got.

1) Are people really overrating these players? Or is Carolina's deep prospect pool one of the best in history?

2) If these reports are accurate and all of these players are on the cusp of the NHL, and the Canes don't have an AHL affiliate to put players who are ready/very close, but not yet surefire studs, where were they going to put these 8 players next year?

So basically, my take: we gave the Canes a star winger and we did them a massive player by taking 3 players they didn't have room for?

I have no issue with Bunting and the 1st/2nd. I have an issue with the 5th. It shouldn't have the same conditions attached to it as the 1st/2nd. Shouldn't have been a 5th. Should have been a 1st, 2nd, OR 3rd, and conditioned to Jake re-signing.

Agreed, the 5th is stupid as f***. Should've been a 3rd or something or a 3rd turning to a 2nd if they win 2 rounds or something.

Carolina's pool is so deep, I'm not shocked they didn't trade any of their top 3 prospects, it hits worse because we were fed iformation by insiders telling us we got their 2nd best prospect. Ponomarev + Koivunen seem like players that we could have next year with Pony on our team this year

I was under the impression both counted for a total of 3 per team

Ahh I see what you mean, hopefully not

 

[Goalie_Bob]

I was under the impression both counted for a total of 3 per team

You are incorrect. A team can have as many buyouts as they want but can only have three players on retention.

 

[McGroarty2]

Aren't we at 3 or am I missing something here?
Guentzel, JJ, Petry?

JJ is a buyout, not cap retention.

 

[IcedCapp]

Agreed, the 5th is stupid as f***. Should've been a 3rd or something or a 3rd turning to a 2nd if they win 2 rounds or something.

Carolina's pool is so deep, I'm not shocked they didn't trade any of their top 3 prospects, it hits worse because we were fed iformation by insiders telling us we got their 2nd best prospect. Ponomarev + Koivunen seem like players that we could have next year with Pony on our team this year

I would have preferred Blake over Morrow, tbh, simply because of positions

 

[pensfan71]

I would have preferred Blake over Morrow, tbh, simply because of positions

I agree as well. However, someone mentioned the ELC case, I'm not sure if Blake would've had the chance to walk but it would not surprise me if Morrow did. In which case, pitchforks would've been out because we'd ask why Dubas didn't know he would. Damned if you do, damned if you don't

 

[K Fleur]

Dubas needs to convince New Jersey that they are just a Jarry away from being contenders.

Send them Smith too.

 

[wej20]

Underwhelming return. Bunting's a decent middle 6 winger but will be 29 once next season starts so not exactly doing much to help the team get younger. Interested to see Ponomarev, hopefully he plays the rest of the season in the NHL. If Dubas hits on two of the prospects or Canes go to the finals then value is good.

​

You are incorrect. A team can have as many buyouts as they want but can only have three players on retention.

Can we buy out Carter and Harkins right now?

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

You are incorrect. A team can have as many buyouts as they want but can only have three players on retention.

JJ is a buyout, not cap retention.

Thanks

Dubas needs to convince New Jersey that they are just a Jarry away from being contenders.

Send them Smith too.

You mean send Graves back too!!!

 

[SomeDude]

i guess i only had one thought when i saw the trade, and someone can tell me why it's a dumb take:

every time i read someone talk about a Carolina prospect, the first thing someone said was, "they'll be ready for the NHL next year." This was said about 8 different players, including 2 of the 3 we got.

1) Are people really overrating these players? Or is Carolina's deep prospect pool one of the best in history?

2) If these reports are accurate and all of these players are on the cusp of the NHL, and the Canes don't have an AHL affiliate to put players who are ready/very close, but not yet surefire studs, where were they going to put these 8 players next year?

So basically, my take: we gave the Canes a star winger and we did them a massive player by taking 3 players they didn't have room for?

I have no issue with Bunting and the 1st/2nd. I have an issue with the 5th. It shouldn't have the same conditions attached to it as the 1st/2nd. Shouldn't have been a 5th. Should have been a 1st, 2nd, OR 3rd, and conditioned to Jake re-signing.

Canes often draft guys who fall in the draft who people fall in love with during their draft year. They also draft guys with higher upsides but bigger bust chances which is a strategy that I personally love. So to answer your first question from my point of view is that a lot of the admiration for the Canes prospect pool comes from people who automatically rate their draft classes high due to projections and upside.

You are correct about them having a million prospects and no AHL team. I said that at the beginning of the year it makes no sense and seems very short sighted.

 

[MeinerEiner]

Finally you make the right decision and end this misery of a season. I hope players like Eller, Rakell, Smith and Ned are traded today. If necessary, there is also a slot open to reduce salaries.

Of course, the trade can be argued, but Dubas is trading a player who has openly communicated that he does not want to negotiate a new contract, leaving the door open for a return to Pittsburgh.

I think the next training camp and the following season should be much more exciting with players like Koivunen, Ponomarev, Poulin, Pickering, Blomqvist, Yager and whoever else comes along. Will she become more successful? We'll see, but at least you can see young, talented players having the opportunity to learn from four of the best players.

I for one am looking forward to the future without Carter, Harkins, Smith etc.

 

[MayorofWBS]

Underwhelming return. Bunting's a decent middle 6 winger but will be 29 once next season starts so not exactly doing much to help the team get younger. Interested to see Ponomarev, hopefully he plays the rest of the season in the NHL. If Dubas hits on two of the prospects or Canes go to the finals then value is good.

​

Can we buy out Carter and Harkins right now?

Carter's and Harkins' contracts end this season. We can just walk away from both at the end of the season. No need to do anything now....

 

[Pens1566]

Remind me why the f*** Jake would ever sign here? This organization is in shambles, and nothing will change.

His wife is from Pittsburgh.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

I'm gonna wait a year to make a determination.

If they got the Canes top prospect it doesn't mean that player is a guarantee. Even to be an NHLer. Top prospects flame out all the time. Just look at Kakko.

The only thing that annoys me is the condition on the 5th round pick. Like really? A 5th if they win the cup, lol.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Oh? Do you remember what our wing situation looked like pre-Guentzel?

Who are we getting to replace him?

uh yeah. We had Kessel, Perron (obv didn’t fit but good player), Kunitz, Hornqvist, Neal directly before Jake. All acquired outside of the org.

I know what you’re saying about the trash we would throw with Sid, but just saying that Guentzel would be the 3rd guy on that list to me behind Phil and prime Kunitz as an individual talent. I appreciate his fit here and the way he figured out a way to play with Sid like few else, but I never was blown away by his talent level or individual play. I think as you lost 87 and 71 he wasn’t the right guy to groom young Cs next to. I would be livid at this trade if I viewed him as a Pastrnak level superstar, but I don’t.

Replacing top 6 wingers can be be done.

2nd q

Well right now - Bunting. He had extremely similar 5v5 primary production last year when he played with good centers. 30 p for Bunting vs 32 for Jake (14 goals vs 16 goals). not to say he’s nearly as good but obviously that’s who will slide in for Guentzel.

Long term? no one I can name right now. Believe that will come via draft when this team is competitive again. Or via trade.

 

[Sideline]

Canes often draft guys who fall in the draft who people fall in love with during their draft year. They also draft guys with higher upsides but bigger bust chances which is a strategy that I personally love. So to answer your first question from my point of view is that a lot of the admiration for the Canes prospect pool comes from people who automatically rate their draft classes high due to projections and upside.

You are correct about them having a million prospects and no AHL team. I said that at the beginning of the year it makes no sense and seems very short sighted.

I wonder how much having your own AHL team helps vs just standardizing the results. Like sure the call ups are used to your system, but if their skill set is better suited to a different system they might be better off developing on a different minor pro team.

The Leafs have outstanding AHL facilities in the same city as the NHL team, but they don't seem to turn prospects into players at an unusually impressive rate.

 

[xlm34]

The prospects are whatever. It doesn’t seem like any have crazy high upside but with Guentzel refusing to negotiate a new deal, getting a superstar prospect was probably a pipe dream.

Bunting is a decent player but I would have preferred they not taken on a guy with a decent sized cap hit for the next couple of years and tried to weaponize the cap space.

Pretty whelming trade but if Guentzel ends up re-signing then none of this really matters.

 

[pistolpete11]

Lucius leads his team in scoring but his skating sucks. Feels like a quad A guy.

Koivunen kinda reminds me of Heinen from highlights. Hopefully a little more effective.

I think Pono is the prize here. Could be a really good middle 6 C that’s cost controlled.

Yeah, I'm not really trying to convince anyone that they hit a homerun here. I'm just saying there's reason to be optimistic about the guys they got because nobody....and I mean nobody, let alone us goobers on a message board....know how prospects are going to develop.



Wasn't skating a knock against Guentzel, too? I mean, at the NHL level I wouldn't call him a great skater.

Koivunen is ahead of Heinen in his development. He's nearly a point/game in a man's league at an age where Heinen was just over a point/game in NCAA.

I know there was a report nobody was interested in Eller, but I wonder if part of the plan is to make Ponomaryov the 3C next year either because they traded Eller or they bump him to 4C? Or at least compete with Poulin for it.