GDT: Pens 2024 Trade Deadline Thread: Jake Shake Talk here

[molon labe]

Nobody said he was. But those are the only players with better active records, and they're not going anywhere.

Where were any Pens players in 19, 20, and 21? Guentzel's no less consistent in the playoffs than Crosby, for crying out loud.

Something needed to change. The last thing that needed to change was our only winger who was a scoring threat, and especially when the return was so pathetic. Doesn't help us now or later. We just gave Carolina a playoff killer for literal scraps.

So you're arguing we should have paid him whatever it took - because that's the only counter here.

- We weren't making the playoffs
- Jake has no contract

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Ponomarev - drafted right where Addison was and is further along than Addison was at the time. I’d say slightly more valuable than Addison at the time.

Koivunen - drafted right where Addison was and having more post draft success, albeit in Europe. Let’s call him equal to Addison to be fair (I would say he’s ahead but whatever).

Lucius - PPG player in NCAA with significant flaws. I’d say that’s very similar to how Addison profiled but let’s say he’s slightly less valuable bc wingers < D and he was picked later.

Bunting has incredibly similar stats to Zucker as well but story for another day.

Just bc Addison was higher up in our pool didn’t make him a “top” prospect vs who we just got. I’d say we got 2 Addisons in this deal.

Most critically, no 1st rounder, and for a player exponentially better than Zucker.

I don't give a shit if we got 5 Addisons in this deal. None of them are needle movers, and we gave up a big one.

You do realize that Zucker wasn't a rental?

You do realize that extra years on a mediocre player isn't necessarily a plus?

Or are Smith and Rakell going to return 1st rounders today?

 

[ColePens]

Per the one and only KIRK:

Kirk says hi and asked me to post the following: This trade, like every other misfortune that has befallen the Pens since the B2B is ColePens fault.


My thoughts:
Dubas sucks. Sully is the problem. Ownership has been horrific since 2019.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

So you're arguing we should have paid him whatever it took - because that's the only counter here.

- We weren't making the playoffs
- Jake has no contract

I'm arguing we should have kept him and flushed the rest of the players who aren't actually good instead of moving him for a pile of unremarkable prospects and Bunting.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Most critically, no 1st rounder, and for a player exponentially better than Zucker.

I don't give a shit if we got 5 Addisons in this deal. None of them are needle movers, and we gave up a big one.

Bro you said

“even Zucker got an unconditional 1st and Addison. Dubas couldn’t get an unconditional 1st and top prospect”

That is referring to Addison as a top prospect. I can’t read your mind.

Zucker is such a bad comp given the contractual status anyway.

 

[TimmyD]

It’s abundantly clear that Dubas put a high value on Bunting which is utterly stupid. Jim Rutherford was involved and we all have first hand experience how much he’s willing to give up to “get his guy” and you’re telling me his offer wasn’t better than this? I don’t believe it. Not for one single second do I believe that. This trade is an absolute 0

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

You do realize that extra years on a mediocre player isn't necessarily a plus?

It's incredibly easy to call Zucker mediocre in hindsight. That was not the opinion of him when he was acquired.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Bro you said

“even Zucker got an unconditional 1st and Addison. Dubas couldn’t get an unconditional 1st and top prospect”

That is referring to Addison as a top prospect. I can’t read your mind.

Zucker is such a bad comp given the contractual status anyway.

No, it's not.

The Canes can have included 2 Addison calibre prospects and its still a bad deal, given the HUGE difference in player quality and no 1st rounder.

Quantity over quality.

 

[ncm7772]

This sucks. Badly.

 

[DaveG]

For what it's worth, Canes fans seem to have pretty high opinions of Koivunen and Ponomarev.

Lucius was fairly likely to be in our top 10 prospects as well.

Pono for us is exactly where Drury was last year: A two-way center prospect that's clearly ready for the show who's in the AHL simply because he's still waiver exempt and we are deep at middle 6 types at the position. He stood out in a big way in his two-game callup earlier in the year with a 1+1 showing vs the Caps.

Koivunen has been lighting it up in Finland this year. Whether his skating is good enough has always been the question. If your staff has a skating coach that can get him to that next level I have no doubt he's an NHL player and he has the offensive talents to be a contributor.

Lucius has been Wisconsin's best player the past 2 years, not sure what his upside is since he's not as dynamic as Koivunen but I have little doubt he'll be an NHL player here within a couple seasons.

 

[canadianguy77]

It's incredibly easy to call Zucker mediocre in hindsight. That was not the opinion of him when we acquired him.

ZAR was becoming a fixture in our top 6. A 30 point forward would’ve been welcome at the time.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

No, it's not.

The Canes can have included 2 Addison calibre prospects and its still a bad deal, given the HUGE difference in player quality and no 1st rounder.

The pick is 25 to 50 it’s the same thing dude.

This is my point about the drama. I’m not even advocating it was more than a B trade but this board is a bunch of babies over not paying a complimentary winger a huge contract during a period where they’re not going to be competitive and trading him for picks instead.

It definitely skews quantity over quality BUT Dubas got a LOT of quantity for a rental. Not one piece in this deal (besides the 5th) is a zero value throw in.

I truly think the reaction is different if the media didn’t f*** up with Blake and Morrow.

And I like I said I think it was a fine trade. Not great not horrible.

We squeezed the best years out of Guentzel for dirt cheap, and are moving him when he’s gonna get expensive. It’s fine not to like it but the collective meltdown is f***ing insane.

 

[Zero Pucks]

No, it's not.

The Canes can have included 2 Addison calibre prospects and its still a bad deal, given the HUGE difference in player quality and no 1st rounder.

Do you even remember what we traded Hossa for? And Hossa was one of the top players in the league at the time too. A super late first round pick and two very meh youngish NHL players. All the posters crying about this return really need a reality check.

 

[Pengu]

This team isn't making the playoffs until 2030 at the earliest anyway. For the next few seasons the will be no real rebuild as the core will be here but the team won't get better. And then after they retire this team will be a bottom feeder for another few years. Get used to it...

 

[Pens x]

This is why Dubas had Shanahan breathing down his neck. Dubas is a f***ing clown.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

At least we got something….see McCann.

Fair

 

[pistolpete11]

Meh. Here and today, I'd give it a C.

Definitely seems like quantity over quality which I'm not a fan of at all. Having said that, all 3 of the prospects seems to be having solid years in their respective leagues, have some upside, and are young enough they could take a step.

 

[orby]

Hoping Dubas trades one of the goalies for a pick today. I don't really mind Smith but I would strongly consider trading him as well since they can get a better pick for him now than in the summer, and I doubt he'd be around long term after that.

 

[eXile3]

I like Bunting for this team but we could have had him in the offseason instead of signing Graves.

The rest is a bag of magic beans. The fact we traded one of our best players and still are a bottom 5 team in terms of pool is awful.

We’ll be lucky if one or two of futures become NHL players and even then they’ll be middle six at best.

I reiterate, Dubas is a tird. Should have just resigned Jake.

 

[Icarium]

Getting a guy like Bunting who makes his living scoring dirty goals close to the net when your untouchable coach plays a system that has all but eliminated these goals from the Penguins arsenal is something, I will give Dubas that.

I am not going to pretend to know the prospects and the team is going nowhere in next few years anyway but in a league where freaking Nick Foligno got a first round pick it's hard not to feel somewhat underwhelmed. Too bad Dubas couldn't trade with another Du(m)bas(s).

 

[molon labe]

I'm arguing we should have kept him and flushed the rest of the players who aren't actually good instead of moving him for a pile of unremarkable prospects and Bunting.

I think everyone is down with that.

But be mad at Jake or his agent then. Because the team very, very likely extended him their best offer - and that offer is unlikely to change this Summer. It was those two - most likely his agent - who went pushing for free agency because in fairness this is his last huge payday. So, again, unless we offered something to KEEP him from going to free agency, aka a ridiculous contract we would all regret, we were losing him for nothing.

So screw these last 7 weeks of this dogshit team. Get the assets. The only reason to be mad at this point is if they don't sell everyone else between now and the Summer. Then, by all means - if Jake is the only 'out' on this crappy ass roster I think every single one of us will throw the towel on this franchise for now.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Per the one and only KIRK:

Kirk says hi and asked me to post the following: This trade, like every other misfortune that has befallen the Pens since the B2B is ColePens fault.


My thoughts:
Dubas sucks. Sully is the problem. Ownership has been horrific since 2019.

Kirk is still trying to steal my name by being more Jaded than I ever could be.

I give him style points though.

Reminds me of a kid who went to my college. Although he did it better.

Every semester he would miss the first two weeks of classes. When a teacher asked where he was, a girl would say that he was away somewhere exotic like skiing in St. Moritz or on a safari in South Africa. It was a different girl each time.

You do have better shoes than any of those girls ever did though.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The return the Penguins got for Guentzel is effectively the same return that the Devils got for Hall, but with a guaranteed 1st instead of a conditional one.

The deal is a C that would probably be a B if the 1st was guaranteed. Anyone saying it’s worse than that doesn’t pay attention to what rentals actually get traded for.

Canes fans have been adamant on the main boards that the Penguins got a good haul here. I have no reason to not believe them when they say that, their fans are the best on this website IMO.

 

[pensfan71]

I think we are also forgetting the fact that Jake probably PICKED Carolina, it wouldn't shock me if Dubas asked for his input and where he'd like to go out of respect and this is what occured

 

[Zap Rowsdower]

I like this trade

1. We got something for him, including some prospects that sounds promising and an NHL player. It's too early for my brain to be working good so this may not be true, but I feel like we usually let opportunities like this slip away and end up with nothing or crap
2. It's always fun to have new players on the team... for about 2 weeks until Sullivan "fixes their game" and they suck
3. We could sign Jake back in the offseason (I think, haven't looked the cap stuff)
4. Selfish reason: Hurricanes are my 2nd fav team and I live 20 minutes from PNC Arena
5. The conditional 1st sucks, but at least now we all have a team to root for in the playoffs
6. Other stuff I can't remember

Feel bad for Sid though, he seems beyond depressed lately. I just hope he can keep his streak of being the only NHL player to ever average 1+ point per game in every season.