Salary Cap: Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"

[AuroraBorealis]

I feel like the time to get serious and try to do some ambitious shit was when Sid/Geno were like 32ish. The NHL's been a young man's game for a long time now. Not that the two of them have been dogshit but they needed a whole lot more help than this team's given them for yeeears. When's the last time a core group won that was Sid/Geno's age after the Habs series? Like, the Wings in 2008? The average age of the back to backs was 28.7 and 29.0 iirc.

They did that in 2020-21. They won the division. They were legit contenders. They had the depth.
They just choked in R1. Largely on Jarry, but not completely. The offense played below their abilities too.

Oh, I can tell you because I watched every game the Penguins have played in the last three years and Jarry isn't a good goaltender.

Use whatever stats you want. He's one of the most mentally weak goaltenders in the league.

You're overestimating the field compared to him. Goaltending has fallen.
Jarry was better than Sorokin, Oettinger, Saros this year for example.

 

[Gurglesons]

You're overestimating the field compared to him. Goaltending has fallen.
Jarry was better than Sorokin, Oettinger, Saros this year for example.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

If we "want as many young players and draft picks as possible". Why do we care about literally anyone besides the big three being on the team?

If you are following that model, bleed every asset you can out. Don't include Bryan Rust in the conversation of players that "set the standard" of what we need.

There are certain things that I have learned to accept with this team:

- Mike Sullivan is the coach for as long as he wants.

- Bryan Rust is not going anywhere.


Unlike you, I include Karlsson with the core group.

 

[Gurglesons]

There are certain things that I have learned to accept with this team:

- Mike Sullivan is the coach for as long as he wants.

- Bryan Rust is not going anywhere.


Unlike you, I include Karlsson with the core group.

If the focus of the team is to get pick and prospects why are we focusing on a core group?

Sid, Malkin, Letang get the legacy save unless they want to leave. Everyone else is sold for whatever we can get.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

They did that in 2020-21. They won the division. They were legit contenders. They had the depth.
They just choked in R1. Largely on Jarry, but not completely. The offense played below their abilities too.


You're overestimating the field compared to him. Goaltending has fallen.
Jarry was better than Sorokin, Oettinger, Saros this year for example.

They did ambitious stuff in 2020-21? They traded for Jeff Carter, who, to his credit, played at a level he hadn't for years at that point and never would again. Still, they basically did what they've been doing since the swing and a miss with Brassard. I mean, except for when JR spent 1st liner prices for 3rd liners. But that was just asinine JR stuff.

 

[Gurglesons]

They did ambitious stuff in 2020-21? They traded for Jeff Carter, who, to his credit, played at a level he hadn't for years at that point and never would again. Still, they basically did what they've been doing since the swing and a miss with Brassard. I mean, except for when JR spent 1st liner prices for 3rd liners. But that was just asinine JR stuff.

I mean the poster just said Tristan Jarry had a better season this year than Sorokin, Oettinger, and Saros..

I think we've reached peak Aurora.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I mean the poster just said Tristan Jarry had a better season this year than Sorokin, Oettinger, and Saros..

I think we've reached peak Aurora.

By some weird set of metrics, he probably did. There's ways to show everything; like McCann's goals per 60 being neck and neck with McDavid, MacKinnon, Matthews and Barkov back in his final year with the Pens. /shrug

AB can be extremely "the numbers are all I need, they tell the entire story" but at least he's fun to mess with and harmless.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

They did ambitious stuff in 2020-21? They traded for Jeff Carter, who, to his credit, played at a level he hadn't for years at that point and never would again. Still, they basically did what they've been doing since the swing and a miss with Brassard. I mean, except for when JR spent 1st liner prices for 3rd liners. But that was just asinine JR stuff.

They bolstered the depth and created a 4-line attack. I take no issue with management in 2020-21.
The offense was #2 in the league. They used the right depth pieces. They made good signings in the summer preceding it. A big splash at the deadline wasn't required.
What they needed was for the team as a whole to play up to their average season level in the playoffs. They didn't.
Crosby 2 points in the playoffs. Guentzel 2. McCann 1. Jarry meltdown, etc...

I mean the poster just said Tristan Jarry had a better season this year than Sorokin, Oettinger, and Saros..

I think we've reached peak Aurora.

You never could handle a neutral topic discussion where someone disagrees with you without making it personal. Nothing's changed.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

AB can be extremely "the numbers are all I need, they tell the entire story" but at least he's fun to mess with and harmless.

Very classy guys. No wonder this place died.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Potential is all fine and good if a player/team plays up to it, but like on-pace stats or per-60 stuff, it's almost always used to try and defend some kinda dogshit. That team was going nowhere because Sullivan was absolutely resolute in his refusal to break up a floundering GCRust, Jarry sucks as a goaltending backbone, and when Jeff Carter is leaps and bounds your best forward, you're pretty much ratf***ed.

Also, I don't really care about a division banner in a 55-game Covid shortened year. /shrug

I dunno. For going on nearly a decade, this team's been either doing stupid shit (Kapanen, Zucker, Jack Johnson, Graves, Jarry, Sullivan), or doing pretty much nothing more than jiggling the mouse to keep the screen saver from popping up while the boss walks by.

Very classy guys. No wonder this place died.

Oh my god, grow a spine. For someone who grew up on the mean streets of WOW, you sure can't handle even the most absolutely bland of ribs. Christ.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Potential is all fine and good if a player/team plays up to it, but like on-pace stats or per-60 stuff, it's almost always used to try and defend some kinda dogshit. That team was going nowhere because Sullivan was absolutely resolute in his refusal to break up a floundering GCRust, Jarry sucks as a goaltending backbone, and when Jeff Carter is leaps and bounds your best forward, you're pretty much ratf***ed.

Also, I don't really care about a division banner in a 55-game Covid shortened year. /shrug

I dunno. For going on nearly a decade, this team's been either doing stupid shit (Kapanen, Zucker, Jack Johnson, Graves, Jarry, Sullivan), or doing pretty much nothing more than jiggling the mouse to keep the screen saver from popping up while the boss walks by.

It's okay to stop now. You made a normal discussion personal like him. It's over.
If that's what you guys want the focus to be here then I got nothing more to say to you.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

It's okay to stop now. You made a normal discussion personal like him. It's over.
If that's what you guys want the focus to be here then I got nothing more to say to you.

My god man. Alright, take care. Weirdo. I'll throw you on ignore and you can do the same for me. This way you won't have to deal with the shuddering horrors of someone gently poking you and having a light-hearted chuckle in this bastion of misery that is HFPens.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Oh my god, grow a spine. For someone who grew up on the mean streets of WOW, you sure can't handle even the most absolutely bland of ribs. Christ.

Nah. It comes from a very ugly place, like you just proved right there. Talking about how I grew up as if you know anything about it. It's not harmless ribbing at all.
It was a normal discussion about goalies and teams and I get this back.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Nah. It comes from a very ugly place, like you just proved right there. Talking about how I grew up as if you know anything about it. It's not harmless ribbing at all.
It was a normal discussion about goalies and teams and I get this back. It's crazy.

You "get" somebody lightly joking that you tend to be too focused on stats and stats alone? Oh the horror. Yeah, now that I've placed myself in your shoes, I see things differently. Ghastly stuff. Christ, you'd be in the fetal position on the bench if you ever played a shift of hockey, competitive or not, if you can't even handle that post.

Take care. Best of luck honing your social skills and developing a sense of humor.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

You "get" somebody lightly joking that you tend to be too focused on stats and stats alone? Oh the horror. Yeah, now that I've placed myself in your shoes, I see things differently. Ghastly stuff. Christ, you'd be in the fetal position on the bench if you ever played a shift of hockey, competitive or not, if you can't even handle that post.

Take care. Best of luck honing your social skills and developing a sense of humor.

Lightly joking is when there's good intentions and you want to get a laugh out of the person you're ribbing. That's not at all this.
Both of you are hateful, disrespectful people. You guys are angry at yourselves or the world about something, so you just project it onto randoms online.

It's not me needing to grow a backbone and tolerating it. It's you needing to resolve your issues, so that you don't have this sick reflex to trash people.

 

[Ulf5]

NHL to decide whether teams must qualify charged Hockey Canada players

Hart, Dube, McLeod and Foote headline the list of contract situations to watch this offseason.

www.dailyfaceoff.com

Couple interesting names on the list:

Luke Kunin - could be added to our 4th line to provide more size and physicality. Would be competing with Puljujarvi.

Henry Jokiharju - would be a great 3RD for us. Says $2.4mil QO amd he got several others in front of him.

Pavel Dorofeyev - they don't think VGK can afford him.

I'd throw some picks to Vegas for Dorofeyev.
In 42 games averaging only 13 minutes per game, he would've finished tied with Reilly Smith for 8th in team goal scoring. As sad as that seems.

 

[Kiith Nabaal]

You're overestimating the field compared to him. Goaltending has fallen.
Jarry was better than Sorokin, Oettinger, Saros this year for example.

Jarry was definitely one of the better performing goalies in the league up until later in the season, but people were complaining about him most of the year. Scoring is up quite a bit and it is reflecting in quite a few goalie's stats. I think if they traded for any other goalie who may be available, they wouldn't be as impressed as they may think. Back in the 17-18 season, there were 7 goalies with >= 92% save percent and 50+ games, compared to this year there was just one.

This season only 20 goalies played 50+ games and I can't imagine half of them will be available, maybe more than half.

I think we would be better off trying to fix whatever Jarry's issues may be until Blomqvist is ready. But if the team has given up on Jarry, we may have to take a gamble on someone like Mrazek and hope he can perform better here.

... although it doesn't really matter much as long as Sullivan is here.

 

[SEALBound]

There are a couple of things with Jarry that go against his numbers:
1. Watching the games, there were several games that were lost by him before the team even had a chance or when there was a breakdown of 10min where the game was lost. Regardless of defense or offense, there were games that he actively lost for the team.
2. When it comes down to it, he did not help win enough games. We missed the playoffs. End of story.
3. His high danger chances sv% was trash.

This team just takes years too long to do anything. Moving on from Sullivan. Moving on from guys like Rust, Zucker, Dumoulin, etc. They're positively f***ing glacial, and way too emotionally attached to guys they shouldn't be. f*** man, if JR didn't do this team a favor and stomp off in a pissbaby tantrum, I imagine he would've made it several more years.

Say what you want about JR but he wouldn't have sat on his hands all year watch McGinn-Carter-Kapanen or watching mediocrity reign for an entire season. He made moves when they were needed. Hextall and Dubas, not so much.

I'd throw some picks to Vegas for Dorofeyev.
In 42 games averaging only 13 minutes per game, he would've finished tied with Reilly Smith for 8th in team goal scoring. As sad as that seems.

A second to Vegas for him would be about right. At 23, he's still a good "help now, plan for later" move.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Jarry was definitely one of the better performing goalies in the league up until later in the season, but people were complaining about him most of the year. Scoring is up quite a bit and it is reflecting in quite a few goalie's stats. I think if they traded for any other goalie who may be available, they wouldn't be as impressed as they may think. Back in the 17-18 season, there were 7 goalies with >= 92% save percent and 50+ games, compared to this year there was just one.

This season only 20 goalies played 50+ games and I can't imagine half of them will be available, maybe more than half.

I think we would be better off trying to fix whatever Jarry's issues may be until Blomqvist is ready. But if the team has given up on Jarry, we may have to take a gamble on someone like Mrazek and hope he can perform better here.

... although it doesn't really matter much as long as Sullivan is here.

Agree with a lot of what you said, but they haven't given up on Jarry. I explained it here:

Salary Cap: - Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"

This is my issue with Dubas’ comments. You can’t have Mike Sullivan and get younger. It’s a paradox. When we inevitably sign a bunch of 28 year old AHL level players instead of playing who we have I will not be shocked. It's just the same bullshit media-speak we've been hearing for years...

forums.hfboards.com

I don't believe in rolling the dice with goaltending in the hope of saving a few mill. It's too important, too impactful on results. Odds are we are worse defensively next year and the goalies get more exposed. We need a strong tandem.
If Ullmark becomes available through trade, then absolutely go for it. But short of that I don't see slam dunk options of improving team results through goaltending choices.
Like you said, we just gotta hope for the best with Blomqvist. He's Swedish. Those guys are tough mentally and professional at young ages. He's gifted. There's a chance there.

 

[HandshakeLine]

There are certain things that I have learned to accept with this team:

- Mike Sullivan is the coach for as long as he wants.

- Bryan Rust is not going anywhere.


Unlike you, I include Karlsson with the core group.

Then how are they going to get these picks and young players? That's why people think Dubas is saying the right things, but unable to follow-through.

Maybe he'll work his magic at the draft, but honestly, I have no expectations he will because he's missed most of the opportunities to improve this team until someone else (Jake, Reirden) forced his hand.

 

[Gurglesons]

Jarry was definitely one of the better performing goalies in the league up until later in the season, but people were complaining about him most of the year. Scoring is up quite a bit and it is reflecting in quite a few goalie's stats. I think if they traded for any other goalie who may be available, they wouldn't be as impressed as they may think. Back in the 17-18 season, there were 7 goalies with >= 92% save percent and 50+ games, compared to this year there was just one.

This season only 20 goalies played 50+ games and I can't imagine half of them will be available, maybe more than half.

I think we would be better off trying to fix whatever Jarry's issues may be until Blomqvist is ready. But if the team has given up on Jarry, we may have to take a gamble on someone like Mrazek and hope he can perform better here.

... although it doesn't really matter much as long as Sullivan is here.

No. Jarry was a good goalie for one month of the year. An above average goalie in two months and then way below average in the rest of the year. He put up a .893 SV% in October and a .870 SV% in March.

Jarry f***ing blows and is inconsistent as hell.

If he was a good goalie he wouldn't have had to come back to PIT with his tail between his legs after UFA.

And if he was viewed as you are talking about we would somehow be able to get out of the contract fro minimal value.

Lankinen, Kahkonen, and Brossiot are goaltenders I would easily rather pay 2 mil with Ned at 3 mil then over Jarry.

The myth of Tristan Jarry is honestly the most bizarre thing I've seen from this franchise's fanbase and media over the last few years.

Agree with a lot of what you said, but they haven't given up on Jarry. I explained it here:

Salary Cap: - Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"

This is my issue with Dubas’ comments. You can’t have Mike Sullivan and get younger. It’s a paradox. When we inevitably sign a bunch of 28 year old AHL level players instead of playing who we have I will not be shocked. It's just the same bullshit media-speak we've been hearing for years...

forums.hfboards.com

I don't believe in rolling the dice with goaltending in the hope of saving a few mill. It's too important, too impactful on results. Odds are we are worse defensively next year and the goalies get more exposed. We need a strong tandem.
If Ullmark becomes available through trade, then absolutely go for it. But short of that I don't see slam dunk options of improving team results through goaltending choices.
Like you said, we just gotta hope for the best with Blomqvist. He's Swedish. Those guys are tough mentally and professional at young ages. He's gifted. There's a chance there.

Why though?

Dubas is focused on expediating a retool and acquiring prospects and picks.

Why do we care what our goaltending looks like if we are just going to throw everything else to the wind? And realistically.. Jarry doesn't provide a strong tandem. He's consistently inconsistent. I'd rather have a .902 SV% goalie that is consistently close to .902 throughout the year than a .908 SV% goaltender who is .908 because he's .920 for 2 months of the year, .880 for 2 months of the year and then .902 for the rest.

 

[SEALBound]

Why is everyone down on Rust?

 

[Gurglesons]

Why is everyone down on Rust?

I'm not down on him.

But conceptually he's 32. So he's not going to improve and likely bleed away his trade value the older he gets.

If we are truly focused on "youth and prospects" or whatever Dubas says to satisfy the media, then sell these players off.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'd throw some picks to Vegas for Dorofeyev.
In 42 games averaging only 13 minutes per game, he would've finished tied with Reilly Smith for 8th in team goal scoring. As sad as that seems.

I would love Dorofeyev. I was hoping to get him and Kolesar back in a trade for Guentzel.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

The individual stats in a given year with Jarry are largely irrelevant.

It's the pattern. A .20 point drop in save percentage from Oct.-Dec. to Jan.-April year after year is alarming, regardless of what the original save percentage is and the final save percentage is. It doesn't even matter what the league percentage is.

The collective data, year after year, shows Jarry coming up short the second half of the year, as @Gurglesons displayed.

Doesn't matter if it's save percentage, goals against, expected goals against, GSAx, or any other stat. This is about the trend, not individual data points.