Salary Cap: Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"

[Big Friggin Dummy]

This is my issue with Dubas’ comments.

You can’t have Mike Sullivan and get younger. It’s a paradox.

When we inevitably sign a bunch of 28 year old AHL level players instead of playing who we have I will not be shocked.

It's just the same bullshit media-speak we've been hearing for years. They're locked into pretending until Sid gets his final Olympics then retires, even though they know it's done and dusted. So they'll say they're going for it, they believe in their guys, they'll never bet against Sid/Geno/Sully, all that shit. Is what it is. Been this way since like 2019.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

They'll keep saying it because FSG is only going to see ticket sales near 100% for another year or two.

They must already be struggling because I keep getting calls and e-mails from the Pens even though I stopped getting season tickets six years ago.

 

[SEALBound]

You can, you just need to give him that roster. If you give him Harkins-Eller-Acciari, he's going to play them. If you don't resign Harkins, keep Eller, trade Acciari, and then keep up Pono, Poulin, and Puustinen, then he has no choice.

I said that a page or two ago - Dubas needs to be better about taking broken toys away from Sullivan.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

They'll keep saying it because FSG is only going to see ticket sales near 100% for another year or two.

They must already be struggling because I keep getting calls and e-mails from the Pens even though I stopped getting season tickets six years ago.

They're the dumbf***s who bought a franchise for a billion while the team was on the precipice of missing the playoffs for like a decade straight. I still laugh at that purchase. It was typical "group of billionaires just throw money at something just to say they own it" without a second thought nonsense.

 

[Gurglesons]

It's just the same bullshit media-speak we've been hearing for years. They're locked into pretending until Sid gets his final Olympics then retires, even though they know it's done and dusted. So they'll say they're going for it, they believe in their guys, they'll never bet against Sid/Geno/Sully, all that shit. Is what it is. Been this way since like 2019.

It's kind of funny, if they would've done what Dubas and Hextall have kind of been hinting at in 2020 or 2021 this team is probably back in the "cup contender category" this upcoming season.

Trading Zucker, Rust, Letang, etc and others to do a soft rebuild around Malkin, Guentzel and Sid probably has us looking like Dallas.

 

[SEALBound]

Add talent as quickly as possible.

Wonder if something like Jarry + our 2 2nds for 10ov + Schmid/Dawson would work. Gets you Tij Iginla or possibly Berkley Catton or Helenius into the system.

Trade Smith and POJ for a 3rd each and it could be a decent draft day.

 

[Pancakes]

It's kind of funny, if they would've done what Dubas and Hextall have kind of been hinting at in 2020 or 2021 this team is probably back in the "cup contender category" this upcoming season.

Trading Zucker, Rust, Letang, etc and others to do a soft rebuild around Malkin, Guentzel and Sid probably has us looking like Dallas.

If they'd kept McCann/Erod I think we're a playoff team the past few years. Even if Sully misused those two they would have added to the lineup anywhere he played them.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

It's kind of funny, if they would've done what Dubas and Hextall have kind of been hinting at in 2020 or 2021 this team is probably back in the "cup contender category" this upcoming season.

Trading Zucker, Rust, Letang, etc and others to do a soft rebuild around Malkin, Guentzel and Sid probably has us looking like Dallas.

I dunno if it has this team looking like Dallas. That team's hit several homeruns in a couple separate drafts. But yeah, this team should've not spent premium prices for 3rd liners like Zucker and Kapanen (and Brassard tbh), and if they weren't so dorky and attached to guys sentiment-wise, they probably could've recouped a lot of assets they could've at least flipped or something. I dunno.

Just another few years before Sullivan embarrasses himself with Team USA and Sid gets his final Olympics before allowing this era to die--years after anything remotely considered a graceful death.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

The Penguins should have taken notes from Detroit and Chicago and stopped holding onto the past, but they followed their paths, instead.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The Penguins should have taken notes from Detroit and Chicago and stopped holding onto the past, but they followed their paths, instead.

I mean, have either of those franchises really had success for those decisions?

Feel free to criticize the Penguins decisions, but pointing at the Hawks and Wings as examples of "moving on from the past" doesn't really help your case.

 

[Gurglesons]

The Penguins should have taken notes from Detroit and Chicago and stopped holding onto the past, but they followed their paths, instead.

Not really. The issue in Chicago and Detroit was their stars retired or fell off.

That hasn’t happened here.

 

[Jacob]

I don’t really see any point in even entertaining the notion that we’ll be in the hunt for name-brand free agents on/after July 1st. We were deadline sellers just like 3 months ago, we were never a big free agent draw even when we were in our prime and winning cups, and we’ve had our GM publicly emphasize a need for more youth. Signing a 30 year old for 5 years (at a half a million more than his next best offer at that) is doing just the opposite.

That’s not to say the roster is set in stone, but any changes will probably come from trades and will probably target players on the right side of 25. And probably guys whose value is currently low like Kotkaniemi or Kakko.

 

[SEALBound]

NHL to decide whether teams must qualify charged Hockey Canada players

Hart, Dube, McLeod and Foote headline the list of contract situations to watch this offseason.

www.dailyfaceoff.com

Couple interesting names on the list:

Luke Kunin - could be added to our 4th line to provide more size and physicality. Would be competing with Puljujarvi.

Henry Jokiharju - would be a great 3RD for us. Says $2.4mil QO amd he got several others in front of him.

Pavel Dorofeyev - they don't think VGK can afford him.

 

[Jacob]

NHL to decide whether teams must qualify charged Hockey Canada players

Hart, Dube, McLeod and Foote headline the list of contract situations to watch this offseason.

www.dailyfaceoff.com

Couple interesting names on the list:

Luke Kunin - could be added to our 4th line to provide more size and physicality. Would be competing with Puljujarvi.

Henry Jokiharju - would be a great 3RD for us.

Kunin is the right age and pedigree we should be targeting. At one time he was expected to have some offensive upside but has settled into a bottom 6 role, maybe he’s just one of those later bloomers like Bennett.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

This team just takes years too long to do anything. Moving on from Sullivan. Moving on from guys like Rust, Zucker, Dumoulin, etc. They're positively f***ing glacial, and way too emotionally attached to guys they shouldn't be. f*** man, if JR didn't do this team a favor and stomp off in a pissbaby tantrum, I imagine he would've made it several more years.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

I mean, have either of those franchises really had success for those decisions?

Feel free to criticize the Penguins decisions, but pointing at the Hawks and Wings as examples of "moving on from the past" doesn't really help your case.

They didn't move on from the past, and the Pens haven't either.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

No he was so bad our coach lost all faith in him and let a journeyman take the reigns down the stretch. Even when it was clear Ned needed a breather he played anyways because the dude battled and the team had his back.

This is how I know people here don't follow things closely.
This is not what happened. Sullivan explained it. He was planning to go back to Jarry during that hot stretch when Jarry fell ill. It was during a back-to-back when a bug swept the team.
Then when Jarry felt better - good enough to play - the streak had reached a point where the team was in such a groove, and every point was so precious, that he didn't wanna touch anything.

Jarry was better than Ned last year overall. The late season stretches are not the only games that have value.
Doesn't matter if he's cold in October or March. Losses are losses. Standings points are standings points. It's all the same shit until game 1 of the playoffs.

 

[Gurglesons]

This is how I know people here don't follow things closely.
This is not what happened. Sullivan explained it. He was planning to go back to Jarry during that hot stretch when Jarry fell ill. It was during a back-to-back when a bug swept the team.
Then when Jarry felt better - good enough to play - the streak had reached a point where the team was in such a groove, and every point was so precious, that he didn't wanna touch anything.

Jarry was better than Ned last year overall. The late season stretches are not the only games that have value.
Doesn't matter if he's cold in October or March. Losses are losses. Standings points are standings points. It's all the same shit until game 1 of the playoffs.

.891 from January to April. .916 from October to December.

Isn't that exactly what you are doing here by saying Jarry was better?

League average SV% for a goalie who is being paid the 12th most out of the league is not what I'd call better than the guy who was making 1.2 or whatever.

 

[Darren McCord]

This team just takes years too long to do anything. Moving on from Sullivan. Moving on from guys like Rust, Zucker, Dumoulin, etc. They're positively f***ing glacial, and way too emotionally attached to guys they shouldn't be. f*** man, if JR didn't do this team a favor and stomp off in a pissbaby tantrum, I imagine he would've made it several more years.

funny enough JR moved on much faster then Hextall or Dubas. *even if that is not saying much

 

[AuroraBorealis]

He was a top 3 reason IMO.

Not a bleeding chance. You're blinded by hatred.
His stats are above average in the league among goalies who played 30+ games. 19th out of 46 in GSAx.
Top 3 are power play, finishing, and coaching. Coaching led to the first 2. Coaching made us deploy worthless players like Harkins and give too many minutes to undeserving players. It led to the frequency of their casual ass attitude, like during that shit stretch right after Jake was traded where they were completely lifeless and threw away precious points.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I feel like the time to get serious and try to do some ambitious shit was when Sid/Geno were like 32ish. The NHL's been a young man's game for a long time now. Not that the two of them have been dogshit but they needed a whole lot more help than this team's given them for yeeears. When's the last time a core group won that was Sid/Geno's age after the Habs series? Like, the Wings in 2008? The average age of the back to backs was 28.7 and 29.0 iirc.

 

[Gurglesons]

Not a bleeding chance. You're blinded by hatred.
His stats are above average in the league among goalies who played 30+ games. 19th out of 46 in GSAx.
Top 3 are power play, finishing, and coaching. Coaching led to the first 2. Coaching made us deploy worthless players like Harkins and give too many minutes to undeserving players. It led to the frequency of their casual ass attitude, like during that shit stretch right after Jake was traded where they were completely lifeless and threw away precious points.

GSAx is a bullshit stat.

Anything expected from the public models is pretty much trash. Go look up what they view as a high danger chance in this playoffs and you'll question it very quickly.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

.891 from January to April. .916 from October to December.

Isn't that exactly what you are doing here by saying Jarry was better?

League average SV% for a goalie who is being paid the 12th most out of the league is not what I'd call better than the guy who was making 1.2 or whatever.

He was better. Definitely. +6 goals on Ned in GSAx. 6 shutouts to 1. The poor play was just backloaded with him.
Ned at 1.2M was just a good deal, one you can't rely on next year. It's not an indication of the state of the league with goalie UFAs. It's an indication of good fortune. He totally outplayed his last 2 seasons as starter in Detroit. A starter who was actually willing to come here wriggled lose for us at the right time.

You can't bank on guys outplaying their contracts annually. That's why teams lock down starters, for stability.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

GSAx is a bullshit stat.

Anything expected from the public models is pretty much trash. Go look up what they view as a high danger chance in this playoffs and you'll question it very quickly.

SV% is even less reliable. Some teams face very different quality shots than others on average.
I gotta use something. It's the best that we have.

What I can tell you is I watched this whole season and that GSAx comparison between those two goalies very much lines up. Jarry's hot stretches earlier in the season gave him enough of a lead. Ned's play near the end was very much overrated by this fanbase. He cooled off pretty hard.
+6 to Jarry seems totally fair.

 

[Gurglesons]

SV% is even less reliable. Some teams face very different quality shots than others on average.
I gotta use something. It's the best that we have.

What I can tell you is I watched this whole season and that GSAx comparison between those two goalies very much lines up. Jarry's hot stretches earlier in the season gave him enough of a lead. Ned's play near the end was very much overrated by this fanbase. He cooled off pretty hard.
+6 to Jarry seems totally fair.

Oh, I can tell you because I watched every game the Penguins have played in the last three years and Jarry isn't a good goaltender.

Use whatever stats you want. He's one of the most mentally weak goaltenders in the league.