Salary Cap: Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"

[Empoleon8771]

I seriously question if Ottawa wouldn’t be on his NTC, but Smith and futures for Chychrun is a deal I’d be loving for Dubas to be attempting.

Smith, Poulin and one of the Penguins 2nds for Chychrun probably isn’t that far off from what Chychrun will eventually be moved for.

 

[Andy99]

Okay.... Can you actually justify any of this? He's never been the guy at any level. He's constantly hurt. Sure, his save percentage was better than Ned, 903 v 899. And his saves above average were better at -0.67 v -1.57.

But he's 28. And those numbers aren't good. And he costs nearly $5.5mil.

You can get the same middling performance from the Neds of the league for $1.5mil.

....jarry is not worth 3x the cost.

Jarry was able to grab a lot more shutouts. Cool. He's a hackfraud.

View attachment 880466

Good one today on Jarry and his volatility…get him out of here lol…

HockeyBuzz.com - Ryan Wilson - An unflattering trend for Tristan Jarry

www.hockeybuzz.com

 

[BusinessGoose]

Good one today on Jarry and his volatility…get him out of here lol…

HockeyBuzz.com - Ryan Wilson - An unflattering trend for Tristan Jarry

www.hockeybuzz.com

 

[chethejet]

Jarry has shown the capability of being a very good goalie. He has carried the Pens at times with his play. It is his consistency that is the issue, not his talent. You simply never know if the light comes on at some point or not. But you can't teach talent. It is there or it isn't. So yes in the minority here but I do think Jarry can be a top goalie. This is the year to show it with a better D and roster. Ned is a ham and egg Ok back up, nothing more.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Jarry's just MAF circa 2012 without the durability or personality. He's athletic enough to stand on his head and steal games now and then, but he's also volatile as hell, injury prone, and seems to burn out from February onward every single year.

-edit- And before the Jarry defender weirdos (lol can't believe they exist) pop in; yeah, the team's defense sucks. But important game on the line and you need the goalie to make a big save, there's not a whole lot of guys I'd have less confidence in than Jarry.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Jarry has shown the capability of being a very good goalie. He has carried the Pens at times with his play. It is his consistency that is the issue, not his talent. You simply never know if the light comes on at some point or not. But you can't teach talent. It is there or it isn't. So yes in the minority here but I do think Jarry can be a top goalie. This is the year to show it with a better D and roster. Ned is a ham and egg Ok back up, nothing more.

His. Entire. Career.

You can not build around inconsistency.

That's how you have a playoff team all year lose for a month to miss playoffs by a single point. And then have that guy letting the goals in insuate it isn't his fault cause he's been hurt half the year... Again.

f*** that shit dude. Talent don't matter when you are outplayed by a backup at the very moment you need to carry the team.

He's a worse MAF, and MAF was trash.

I would be on the give the guy a chance train, if he were 23. He's 28. He's only got a few more years left in the league at goalie. How many guys are legit better at 30+ than mid20s in this position, today?

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Okay.... Can you actually justify any of this? He's never been the guy at any level. He's constantly hurt. Sure, his save percentage was better than Ned, 903 v 899. And his saves above average were better at -0.67 v -1.57.

But he's 28. And those numbers aren't good. And he costs nearly $5.5mil.

You can get the same middling performance from the Neds of the league for $1.5mil.

....jarry is not worth 3x the cost.

Jarry was able to grab a lot more shutouts. Cool. He's a hackfraud.

View attachment 880466

Ned just had two shit years in Detroit. It's not safe to assume he'll replicate his performance from this year. Plus you're unlikely to find a former starter at 1.5M who can play that many games again.
And if you're bringing Ned back, he's probably within his rights to ask for 3M or so next year.

I use Moneypuck, so I'll tell you what the stats say there.
Of the 46 goalies who played 30+ games, Jarry was 19th with a +2.6 GSAx. That was above Vasi, Saros, Sorokin, Skinner, Oettinger.
Ned was 31st with a -3.3 GSAx. He wasn't actually as good as people say overall. People just have fond memories because of a hot streak, and having a good record with him in net. But he got more support than Jarry did, which led to that.
I think you're being too harsh on Jarry here. He had a good year. Bad ending, but good year. He played at a level that's fair for his cap hit.

I would bring both back. The best approach to goaltending is the Boston and NYI models. 1A and 1B. Failsafe for injuries. Both need to be capable of playing a lot of games, and to go on heaters that keep your team in the race.
And if that costs 8.4M to ensure having an above average tandem for the year, so be it. That's totally acceptable to me, especially with the cap at 87.7M next year. It's the most important position.
We very well might get washed Letang next year and we got an above average defensive year out of Karlsson. Think it's realistic for him to get worse defensively next year, based on his history. That bump and hyper focus you get after arriving at a new team is gone for him now. And if both those things end up happening, you absolutely can't be weak in net. One of those D-men are out there for like 48 minutes of a game. They will need to be bailed out a lot.

So unless Boston is moving Ullmark and there's a clear upgrade available, I'm fine with this tandem.

 

[HandshakeLine]

If Dubas is super active this summer I’ll be happy. And I say that thinking that more velocity of activity in FA/trades = more likelihood of a few bad moves.

If he makes a ton of changes including a complete overhaul of the goalie room, and getting rid of one or more of the middle six vanilla we’ve accumulated, I won’t really hold it against him when some of the moves inevitably go poorly.

I just don’t wanna see this team run it back.

Yeah, same. This team hurts itself more with its self-inflicted paralysis than anything else. I want to be them actually try something new, even if it doesn’t work out.

I don’t think they will do anything of the sort, mind you, but doing so would greatly improve my estimation of Dubas, who I think is largely an empty suit.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Gimme some specialists, man. Guys who may not score but hit. Guys who may not be good defensively but can score goals. This team's so f***ing lame.

 

[vodeni]

Ned sucked big time down the stretch when we needed him the most. I have zero confidence that he can be your Number 1, not even close

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

NHL Rumour Roundup: Latest on Canucks' Lindholm, Zadorov, Hurricanes' Guentzel

With the start of NHL free agency less than one month away, we check in on the Vancouver Canucks pair of Elias Lindholm and Nikita Zadorov.

www.sportsnet.ca

“When it comes to Guentzel, Friedman said one team to keep an eye on is the Chicago Blackhawks.”

If Guentzel signs with the Hawks, you can chalk that up 100% to chasing the money. Not even trying to be critical there, he’s been underpaid for years and deserves to get his bag.

There are a lot worse options if you're looking to compete than attaching yourself to a 19 year old generational talent for the next 8 years.

 

[wheelz87]

Lets run it back with Jars so he can choke for a 5th straight year!

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Ned sucked big time down the stretch when we needed him the most. I have zero confidence that he can be your Number 1, not even close

What we really need is Blomqvist to be ready, which he may be...

Lets run it back with Jars so he can choke for a 5th straight year!

He's not why they missed the playoffs this year. Did you watch the season?

 

[Darren McCord]

I would be so sad if Jake went to Chi. I despise that franchise so much

 

[wheelz87]

What we really need is Blomqvist to be ready, which he may be...


He's not why they missed the playoffs this year. Did you watch the season?

No he was so bad our coach lost all faith in him and let a journeyman take the reigns down the stretch. Even when it was clear Ned needed a breather he played anyways because the dude battled and the team had his back. 2021 - totally on Jars. 2022 - hurt. (a theme - loses game 7). 2023 - more injuries, first non playoff season in years. 2024 - loses job at end of the year. Every year - implodes after all star break.

If he keeps telling you he isn't the guy. Believe him. Some don't have that next level. Guy is a loser.
He did absolutely nothing to receive the contract that he did. Goalies by and large are ****shows. So don't commit to guy that hasn't done jack. Keeping Ned is the right move.

 

[Gurglesons]

He's not why they missed the playoffs this year. Did you watch the season?

He was a top 3 reason IMO.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Ned's a backup that the team felt more comfortable running with down the stretch because Jarry predictably crumbled.

And with Ned in net, they made a run that saw them go from like the 7th worst record in the league to nearly eeking into the playoffs. /shrug

I don't care if Ned's back or not tbh. He's nothing special. He's a backup. The issue is that this team's "starter" also sucks. It's less that they have a 1A and 1B, and more that they have a 2A and 2B.

February onward last season, Jarry went 8-8-2 and had a .890 sv%. From February onward this season, Jarry went 6-11-1 and had a .886 sv%. That's a big problem for a team as mediocre as this one that's fighting tooth and nail just to remain in the WC race annually. Ned's stats from February onward were 10-4-4 with a .888 sv%. But I know, I know... Jarry just doesn't get the defensive/goal support Ned does! Just like with Sully, it's always somethin'.

I dunno. I'm biased. I f***ing can't stand the loser anymore, just want him gone regardless.

 

[SEALBound]

If there is an opportunity to get out of Jarry's contract and get something of value back, they 1000% need to do it.

The goaltending market of this league is honestly in shambles. There are fewer and fewer elite goalies every year and they're getting harder and harder to find. Way too many GMs have signed goalies to anchor contracts to the point where you'd think they learn their lessons about the dangers of giving relatively unstable positions long-term money.

Today, there are two options (well three). 1. You find the elite goalie - Helly, Vasi, Bobs, Shesterkin, etc and you're set. 2. You build your roster around "good enough" goaltending. Meaning you get a guy that you think is gonna give up likely 2-3 every night, so you build a roster around scoring 3-4+ every night. You then hope that, each night, the goalie is "just good enough". If you win 7-6, you don't give a shit about goalie stats, especially over the long term. You just need the goalie stat THAT night to be better than the other sides. And if it isn't over the long haul, you can send them out or waive them with limited roster impact. You may have a goalie at .888 but if you're record is 14-6 over 20 games, it's a win.

Giving a 5yr deal at $5.75mil to a guy like Jarry is borderline negligent in today's league. I don't know how many GMs need to find themselves in bad positions for they stop doing it. At max, Jarry should have been a 3x3. His performance would be tolerable at that rate and term.

 

[MayorofWBS]

If there is an opportunity to get out of Jarry's contract and get something of value back, they 1000% need to do it.

The goaltending market of this league is honestly in shambles. There are fewer and fewer elite goalies every year and they're getting harder and harder to find. Way too many GMs have signed goalies to anchor contracts to the point where you'd think they learn their lessons about the dangers of giving relatively unstable positions long-term money.

Today, there are two options (well three). 1. You find the elite goalie - Helly, Vasi, Bobs, Shesterkin, etc and you're set. 2. You build your roster around "good enough" goaltending. Meaning you get a guy that you think is gonna give up likely 2-3 every night, so you build a roster around scoring 3-4+ every night. You then hope that, each night, the goalie is "just good enough". If you win 7-6, you don't give a shit about goalie stats, especially over the long term. You just need the goalie stat THAT night to be better than the other sides. And if it isn't over the long haul, you can send them out or waive them with limited roster impact. You may have a goalie at .888 but if you're record is 14-6 over 20 games, it's a win.

Giving a 5yr deal at $5.75mil to a guy like Jarry is borderline negligent in today's league. I don't know how many GMs need to find themselves in bad positions for they stop doing it. At max, Jarry should have been a 3x3. His performance would be tolerable at that rate and term.

We are getting nothing of value back moving Jarry. If he is moved, it's a matter of how damage do we need to take back and/or give up value to get rid of him. Ned is trash also. If we go the trash heap route, I'm okay with it if the trash goalie only has a contract for this upcoming season. Anything pass this season is stupid and we already have enough trash on the roster as is and I expect more to be added once the UFA opens.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Yeah, same. This team hurts itself more with its self-inflicted paralysis than anything else. I want to be them actually try something new, even if it doesn’t work out.

I don’t think they will do anything of the sort, mind you, but doing so would greatly improve my estimation of Dubas, who I think is largely an empty suit.

That's precisely why I'll never criticize the Karlsson acquisition. It was exactly the sort of "impact" player we needed to look to bring in. It didn't work out as well as hoped, in large part because of the dolt behind the bench and his attempting to "fix" Karlsson, but it was a move that I'd back 10 out of 10.

Problem is after that we basically just threw our hands up in the air and said, "we're good" when there was a bunch of other stuff that needed addressing.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

Have we been linked to any free agents yet or can't those talks even happen until July 1st?

 

[Jag68Sid87]

That's precisely why I'll never criticize the Karlsson acquisition. It was exactly the sort of "impact" player we needed to look to bring in. It didn't work out as well as hoped, in large part because of the dolt behind the bench and his attempting to "fix" Karlsson, but it was a move that I'd back 10 out of 10.

Problem is after that we basically just threw our hands up in the air and said, "we're good" when there was a bunch of other stuff that needed addressing.

He kinda addressed them, too. We had a lot of new players when last season began. Some very forgettable, some very meh, no true impact until Bunting arrived really.

We need to clear out some of the guys who obviously did not work out or don't want to be here (Jarry and Smith, mostly), and try again.

I do not believe that Jarry has negative value, or that we need to retain salary. Lots of teams are looking for goaltending right now. Believe it or not, Jarry would actually be an upgrade in LA, NJ and Ottawa right now. So, there is that.

As for Chychrun, I don't mind the idea of acquiring him but we already have a pending UFA LD going into next season. Also, do not trade futures. We cannot afford to trade any futures (unless we are getting futures back in the same deal).

Jarry, Smith and P.O. Joseph for Chychrun and Korpisalo is a deal Ottawa would probably do. Would you?

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

Have we been linked to any free agents yet or can't those talks even happen until July 1st?

No real links, unless you think Guentzel is returning.

 

[Gurglesons]

That's precisely why I'll never criticize the Karlsson acquisition. It was exactly the sort of "impact" player we needed to look to bring in. It didn't work out as well as hoped, in large part because of the dolt behind the bench and his attempting to "fix" Karlsson, but it was a move that I'd back 10 out of 10.

Problem is after that we basically just threw our hands up in the air and said, "we're good" when there was a bunch of other stuff that needed addressing.

Yeah, there is nothing wrong with the acquisition of EK65 as a player.

The issue is how he was utilized and how we didn’t continue to “go for it” after realizing in season we needed more.

 

[The Old Master]

i think dubas knows our future goalie is already in the system. and feels jarry is good enough till he gets here. to overpay for a goalie that might get us a few more wins but it will only drop us down the draft order. he feels it's just not worth what you feel it is.