Salary Cap: Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"

[Jag68Sid87]

Lindholm checks some boxes because we need a right-handed sniper for PP one. But it sounds like he is going back to Vancouver (or at least they are trying), and I would prefer someone who plays wing so that we don't stump the development of the center prospects. That player could play center in a pinch, or at least take draws, which helps Malkin. Lindholm has never been very good as a RW. I think Vancouver thought he would be the perfect RW for Pettersson, but they wound up trying Pettersson on RW because Lindholm is clearly a center.

Also, Evgeni Malkin is still a damn good No. 2 center in this league. The question is whether to open up 3C for a kid to win the job. I say yes.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Dubas deserves a ton of credit for the Karlsson trade. He pulled off the "All my bad players and a 1st for your good player", even if Karlsson hasn't performed up to his SJS levels. He also dererves credit for signing Ned and Eller. This may be poorly received, but I liked the return for Guentzel too, even if I would have preferred to keep him. Bunting had an immediate Hornqvist for Neal type impact, and I expect 2/3 prospects to become roster players for us in the next 2 years.

On the other hand, woof on Smith, Graves, Jarry, Acciari, Nieto. That's a lot of red ink, and it's nearly impossible to correct it all in one offseason.

I'm going to hold judgement on Dubas until i see what happens between now and opening night.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Also, Evgeni Malkin is still a damn good No. 2 center in this league. The question is whether to open up 3C for a kid to win the job. I say yes.

He was last season and of course before that. But that might be the last time we can say that. I hope I'm wrong. For all the shit people have given him over the years for being a slob in his own end I thought he played a lot more conservative last season, cut down on his turnovers by a ton and actually led the league in takeaways.

But he's at the point where age REALLY takes hold and he's gonna need help next year I doubt he gets. Bunting is all well and good but I gotta pump the breaks there for now. Wouldn't be shocked if he loses a lot of his effectiveness next season. We've seen it plenty before on this team.

 

[Sideline]

Dubas deserves a ton of credit for the Karlsson trade. He pulled off the "All my bad players and a 1st for your good player", even if Karlsson hasn't performed up to his SJS levels. He also dererves credit for signing Ned and Eller. This may be poorly received, but I liked the return for Guentzel too, even if I would have preferred to keep him. Bunting had an immediate Hornqvist for Neal type impact, and I expect 2/3 prospects to become roster players for us in the next 2 years.

On the other hand, woof on Smith, Graves, Jarry, Acciari, Nieto. That's a lot of red ink, and it's nearly impossible to correct it all in one offseason.

I'm going to hold judgement on Dubas until i see what happens between now and opening night.

Agreed with everything here.

Graves is the real stinker. Smith, Acciari, and Nieto are all short term and/or cheap enough they aren't hard to work around.

Jarry in the context of what was available last off season isn't the worst. The next hottest name that actually moved was Korpisalo and that looks like a Graves level tire fire. Following the names floating around the goalie market this offseason looks very similar. I don't trust Jarry, but until someone clearly better than him moves and Dubas misses out I won't complain too much.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Dubas deserves a ton of credit for the Karlsson trade. He pulled off the "All my bad players and a 1st for your good player", even if Karlsson hasn't performed up to his SJS levels. He also dererves credit for signing Ned and Eller. This may be poorly received, but I liked the return for Guentzel too, even if I would have preferred to keep him. Bunting had an immediate Hornqvist for Neal type impact, and I expect 2/3 prospects to become roster players for us in the next 2 years.

On the other hand, woof on Smith, Graves, Jarry, Acciari, Nieto. That's a lot of red ink, and it's nearly impossible to correct it all in one offseason.

I'm going to hold judgement on Dubas until i see what happens between now and opening night.

Smith I like the attempt. 2 years 5 million two way guy for a 3rd instead of signing someone for 5 years. Honestly if it was known or if we could have waited I would have done Zucker for 2 years 5 million.

Graves - I was excited 28 years old 4.5 million 6 years taking a player to 34. Full prime at a decent hit for a 4/5 . Definitely a bad signing with how he doesn't fit here.

Neito - Doesn't matter bury him as ahl depth. Sit in press box.

Accairi - needs to be playing wing. I definitely think the contract was 1 year to long.

Jarry - eh in the camp of better to sign then not with what we knew then. If we can trade him I would and re sign Ned.

 

[SEALBound]

Let's just say we did move Malkin to 3C I wouldn't actually mind it being used as an offensive zone line with the 2nd line 2C being used more shut down ish.

If we could get Lindholm here and yes he has value to shelter youth in the later future.

DOC Crosby Rust
LW - Lindholm - RW
Bunting - Malkin - Puus / Yager
Puujarvi Poulin Accairi

Trade Eller. Rakell may be the RW for Lindholm. Figure out LW. Doesn't look too bad of a forward group honestly.

Minutes for lines.
18
16
16
10

I imagine in this scenario, they make it DOC-Lindholm-Rakell since both DOC and Rakell are defensively responsible. Then they find a 1LW for Sid.

One thing that complicates it, is you never know how other teams want to use your lines to match up against us. For example, plenty of teams opted to put their first line out against Sid. A force-on-force matchup, if you will. Wings loved doing that - Zetterberg on Sid, Datsyuk on Malkin. Boston did - Bergeron on Sid.

If that's the case, then its likely our third and fourth lines have to match up against other third and forth lines. Thats when it gets tough as they weren't really able to provide much. If the standard model was "build two defensive lines and put them against the other team's top two line", then it could work. But when it's not that model, we get outmatched because the lineup has so little flexibility and capability. The best part of 2016 was that you could roll three offensive lines and the other team had to pick their battles. If Sid gets shut down, you can pivot to Geno or HBK - and all other combinations of that. At some point, a quality offensive line would be paired against a 3rd or 4th line. Over the course of a game and series, we eventually won out.

I've longed to get away from:

Scoring Line 1
Scoring Line 2
Defensive Line 1
Defensive Line 2

and go to the

Scoring Line 1 / 2 / 3
Defensive line

model which is what we had in 2016. I don't hate your model of:

Scoring Line 1
Offensively capable match up line
Scoring Line 3
Defensive Line

It front you a lot of options and still ensures one offensive line against a bottom 6 line.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I hated the Smith trade, mainly because of age. Did not think we should be trading picks at that time, but I usually feel that way. Hated Nieto too, especially because TSN announced he was going to Edm...and then later updated it with Pittsburgh. Graves, I will reserve judgment until after year 2. I want to see a new assistant coach in here and Graves starting out with a third-pairing role with a solid defensive D-man beside him. Build him back up. I have always liked Acciari, so he is the biggest disappointment for me. Can we salvage something if we move him to RW? Yes. Will Sullivan do it? No.

Lastly, goaltending is a dart throw, no matter what you decide to do. I also did not like the Eller signing, but he has worked out for the most part. I still think we should trade him this summer. The Karlsson deal was a steal then, and pretty much now.

 

[SEALBound]

Smith I like the attempt. 2 years 5 million two way guy for a 3rd instead of signing someone for 5 years. Honestly if it was known or if we could have waited I would have done Zucker for 2 years 5 million.

Graves - I was excited 28 years old 4.5 million 6 years taking a player to 34. Full prime at a decent hit for a 4/5 . Definitely a bad signing with how he doesn't fit here.

Neito - Doesn't matter bury him as ahl depth. Sit in press box.

Accairi - needs to be playing wing. I definitely think the contract was 1 year to long.

Jarry - eh in the camp of better to sign then not with what we knew then. If we can trade him I would and re sign Ned.

Smith in place of Zucker, whatever. I would have preferred Zucker at $5.5mil for 1 year over Smith at $5mil for 2 years but it was still a solid trade. Whatever.

We needed Graves. We paid market value. While I don't like the contract right now, it more because I do not like how Graves has played. This wasn't Chad Rudwedel that we gave $4.5mil in hopes he would play like a $4.5mil guy. Graves was a well-known 2nd pairing guy. I get the signing. Not happy with it but again, that's more on Graves than Dubas at this point.

Nieot - Whatever. He can be buried. I don't think he should ever play a game for the Pens again though. We need the roster slot for young guys.

Accairi - Didn't like it then nor now. Booo.

Eller - Still like it. Solid bottom 6 center signing. Hard to complain.

Jarry - This is the one that I hate Dubas for. Jarry didn't earn that contract. It was high risk then and it's high risk now. We need to get out of it.

EK Trade - my crap for your #1dman. Fixed a ton of mistakes that Hextall anchored us with.

 

[Gurglesons]

Dubas deserves a ton of credit for the Karlsson trade. He pulled off the "All my bad players and a 1st for your good player", even if Karlsson hasn't performed up to his SJS levels. He also dererves credit for signing Ned and Eller. This may be poorly received, but I liked the return for Guentzel too, even if I would have preferred to keep him. Bunting had an immediate Hornqvist for Neal type impact, and I expect 2/3 prospects to become roster players for us in the next 2 years.

On the other hand, woof on Smith, Graves, Jarry, Acciari, Nieto. That's a lot of red ink, and it's nearly impossible to correct it all in one offseason.

I'm going to hold judgement on Dubas until i see what happens between now and opening night.

Does he?

If you are going to turn around and say this team neeeds to do a soft rebuild, I can't get behind giving up a 1st and a 2nd for a win now player.

If you are win now you take the steps to be win now.

It's not like this is hard monday morning quarterback analysis. The rest of his moves like you said are woofs. He waited on his hands all season while Reirden and Sullivan pissed away the season.

EK65 was a good trade in a vaccuum, but it was a severly bad gamble if you are going to let that 1st fall where it did.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Lindholm checks some boxes because we need a right-handed sniper for PP one. But it sounds like he is going back to Vancouver (or at least they are trying), and I would prefer someone who plays wing so that we don't stump the development of the center prospects. That player could play center in a pinch, or at least take draws, which helps Malkin. Lindholm has never been very good as a RW. I think Vancouver thought he would be the perfect RW for Pettersson, but they wound up trying Pettersson on RW because Lindholm is clearly a center.

Also, Evgeni Malkin is still a damn good No. 2 center in this league. The question is whether to open up 3C for a kid to win the job. I say yes.

I'd prefer a RHS C/RW for Malkin. Like Mario did in his later days, keep Geno listed at C and let him take draws on his strong side, but have another C in waiting there to pick up some defensive slack.

If that happened, you're looking at:

Rakell - Sid - Rust
Bunting - Geno - C/RW
DOC - TBD C - Puusty/Pulji

I guess as a fallback, Rakell could play 3rd line too. He's usually looked pretty good with Sid though.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'd prefer a RHS C/RW for Malkin. Like Mario did in his later days, keep Geno listed at C and let him take draws on his strong side, but have another C in waiting there to pick up some defensive slack.

If that happened, you're looking at:

Rakell - Sid - Rust
Bunting - Geno - C/RW
DOC - TBD C - Puusty/Pulji

I guess as a fallback, Rakell could play 3rd line too. He's usually looked pretty good with Sid though.

I don't think you can afford both a top six RW improvement and a 3rd line center unless you are somehow moving out one of Jarry or Graves for a similar bad contract.

 

[Empoleon8771]

NHL Rumour Roundup: Latest on Canucks' Lindholm, Zadorov, Hurricanes' Guentzel

With the start of NHL free agency less than one month away, we check in on the Vancouver Canucks pair of Elias Lindholm and Nikita Zadorov.

www.sportsnet.ca

“When it comes to Guentzel, Friedman said one team to keep an eye on is the Chicago Blackhawks.”

If Guentzel signs with the Hawks, you can chalk that up 100% to chasing the money. Not even trying to be critical there, he’s been underpaid for years and deserves to get his bag.

 

[Gurglesons]

NHL Rumour Roundup: Latest on Canucks' Lindholm, Zadorov, Hurricanes' Guentzel

With the start of NHL free agency less than one month away, we check in on the Vancouver Canucks pair of Elias Lindholm and Nikita Zadorov.

www.sportsnet.ca

“When it comes to Guentzel, Friedman said one team to keep an eye on is the Chicago Blackhawks.”

If Guentzel signs with the Hawks, you can chalk that up 100% to chasing the money. Not even trying to be critical there, he’s been underpaid for years and deserves to get his bag.

I mean. He’d also be playing with the next generational forward so there’s that too.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I know these days we have little room to talk shit but seriously guys... Carolina... hilarious.

 

[sauce66871]

Not sure how available Pinto is, but to land a package from the Senators that would be Pinto and Chychrun. I’d give up pretty much anything we have of value besides Yager.

Some package of picks with POJ, and Koivunen/Pickering/Ponomarev/Poulin… I think the Pens have the pieces for it.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I'd prefer a RHS C/RW for Malkin. Like Mario did in his later days, keep Geno listed at C and let him take draws on his strong side, but have another C in waiting there to pick up some defensive slack.

If that happened, you're looking at:

Rakell - Sid - Rust
Bunting - Geno - C/RW
DOC - TBD C - Puusty/Pulji

I guess as a fallback, Rakell could play 3rd line too. He's usually looked pretty good with Sid though.

It is a good idea in theory. But honestly, Mario was always an amazing LW. Always. Geno, even when he played RW with Sid under Therrien, looked a bit off. Their natural talent (and youth) overcame everything.

But I am with you. Stamkos (aside from age) is perfect for what we need right now. And I do like O'Connor more than Rakell on Line 1, and I am putting a kid at that TBD C spot.

But we are on the same page here.

 

[Gurglesons]

Not sure how available Pinto is, but to land a package from the Senators that would be Pinto and Chychrun. I’d give up pretty much anything we have of value besides Yager.

Some package of picks with POJ, and Koivunen/Pickering/Ponomarev/Poulin… I think the Pens have the pieces for it.

Why not Yager?

You'd be returning to assets that would likely both return you 1sts when you get closer to the rebuild.

 

[MayorofWBS]

Not sure how available Pinto is, but to land a package from the Senators that would be Pinto and Chychrun. I’d give up pretty much anything we have of value besides Yager.

Some package of picks with POJ, and Koivunen/Pickering/Ponomarev/Poulin… I think the Pens have the pieces for it.

Sure, bet the Sens all over that

 

[SEALBound]

I know these days we have little room to talk shit but seriously guys... Carolina... hilarious.

This is why they were willing to give up what they did. Jake was viewed as a rental.

Imagine if they gave up Nishikin, Morrow, or Nadeau and an unprotected 1st for Jake and then looked to recoup a mid-round pick. Woof.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Not sure how available Pinto is, but to land a package from the Senators that would be Pinto and Chychrun. I’d give up pretty much anything we have of value besides Yager.

Some package of picks with POJ, and Koivunen/Pickering/Ponomarev/Poulin… I think the Pens have the pieces for it.

I felt POJ had value last summer. I think he lost value last year.

Also I am unsure without Yager that we have the assets for both.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

I want to have faith in, and like, Dubas.

As someone mentioned earlier, I don't have faith because he hasn't canned Sullivan.

If the excuse is "FSG won't let him," then it was stupid of him to take the job knowing he couldn't bring in his own guy, money aside.

I also would prefer he realizes he doesn't HAVE to have a history with someone in order to hire them.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I want to have faith in, and like, Dubas.

As someone mentioned earlier, I don't have faith because he hasn't canned Sullivan.

If the excuse is "FSG won't let him," then it was stupid of him to take the job knowing he couldn't bring in his own guy, money aside.

I also would prefer he realizes he doesn't HAVE to have a history with someone in order to hire them.

This seems like a lesson this entire backwards, moronic league needs to learn to be fair.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

Good point.

I just always check to see when the person Dubas hires played for Soo, or worked for the Leafs organization.

 

[Gurglesons]

I want to have faith in, and like, Dubas.

As someone mentioned earlier, I don't have faith because he hasn't canned Sullivan.

If the excuse is "FSG won't let him," then it was stupid of him to take the job knowing he couldn't bring in his own guy, money aside.

I also would prefer he realizes he doesn't HAVE to have a history with someone in order to hire them.

I'd just prefer Kyle Dubas like.. did a good job as a GM. Tough ask, I know.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

I want to have faith in, and like, Dubas.

As someone mentioned earlier, I don't have faith because he hasn't canned Sullivan.

If the excuse is "FSG won't let him," then it was stupid of him to take the job knowing he couldn't bring in his own guy, money aside.

I also would prefer he realizes he doesn't HAVE to have a history with someone in order to hire them.

40 ish million dollars is enough to accept not firing a coach.