Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread: We suck again summer edition

[AuroraBorealis]

But I suppose I would ask this... what made you dislike Evgeni Malkin so much?

Lol. It's not about Malkin. We just tried the load the top 6 and use L3 and L4 as defensive slaves that don't score approach.
You saw the results. It kills players morale.

 

[Gurglesons]

It's reasonable to think that Nylander doesn't have it at this level.

It's just as reasonable to want to hold of on hardening that conclusion until he's been given more of a shot here.

Why are we wasting time facilitating a player like Nylander when we have much more intriguing prospects and the cap space to add players that actually have definable qualities that improve teams?

The Alex Nylander arguments look a hell of a lot like the Dom Simon arguments. Lots of "per 60" and "possession" stats that we've seen over the past few years can easily be manipulated to make a player seem good when reality is he's just there.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

I didn't hate his game in the playoffs. Just don't know what his contract expectations are. I think in the past, I had him on a 2x2mil for the armchair GM. I think AA i had at 2yr x $3mil.

Wood at 2x2 I'd be very comfortable with

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

Why are we wasting time facilitating a player like Nylander when we have much more intriguing prospects and the cap space to add players that actually have definable qualities that improve teams?

Returns a 404 error.

 

[Gurglesons]

Returns a 404 error.

I'd much rather see Drew O'Connor or Ryan Poehling in the top six or top nine over Alex Nylander.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'd much rather see Drew O'Connor or Ryan Poehling in the top six or top nine over Alex Nylander.

What's behind door number 3?

 

[Gurglesons]

What's behind door number 3?

Well that’s my initial point. We have the cap to build a top nine without Nylander in it, but if that’s something we are going to entertain I’d prefer DOC or Poehling up there versus Nylander given they actually bring some size, speed, and grit.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Lol. It's not about Malkin. We just tried the load the top 6 and use L3 and L4 as defensive slaves that don't score approach.
You saw the results.

To my eyes the top six did very well even though they weren't ideally constructed. Largely powered by the old "washed up" stars. The problem you are describing is coaching and team construction/philosophy related.

In my opinion if you kneecap L2 in order to chase some nebulous concept of "better defense" in a system and coach that likely won't allow it, you are simply taking two steps back for one step forward. I just don't see the wisdom in weakening one of the very few bright spots on the team. It's not Malkin's fault or shouldn't be that the dingbat coach can't figure out how to configure/use the rest of his lineup.

Dude is likely to lose the only wing he clicked at all with, too. Subbing in like Nylander or Granlund would be a real dick kick.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

I'd much rather see Drew O'Connor or Ryan Poehling in the top six or top nine over Alex Nylander.

I guess I don't see regulars as prospects.

 

[Gurglesons]

I guess I don't see regulars as prospects.

Throw in Big Puusy then.

 

[Josey Wales]

Kyle Dubas says he'll only work in Toronto if he works anywhere next season. It's been a really difficult season on his family and he needs to be sure that they're still onboard.

 

[Sideline]

Kyle Dubas says he'll only work in Toronto if he works anywhere next season. It's been a really difficult season on his family and he needs to be sure that they're still onboard.

I believe he believes that. I also believe if someone offers him 5x5 his family will tell him they are tough enough and he cannot say no to that.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

To my eyes the top six did very well even though they weren't ideally constructed. Largely powered by the old "washed up" stars. The problem you are describing is coaching and team construction/philosophy related.

In my opinion if you kneecap L2 in order to chase some nebulous concept of "better defense" in a system and coach that likely won't allow it, you are simply taking two steps back for one step forward. I just don't see the wisdom in weakening one of the very few bright spots on the team. It's not Malkin's fault or shouldn't be that the dingbat coach can't figure out how to configure/use the rets of his lineup.

Yeah and the top 6 produced like that because they were given excessive minutes and near 70% O-zone starts.
Sullivan sacrificed the bottom 6 at the altar to serve those guys.
Did it look worth it to you?

Zucker-Geno-Rakell were a -4 by season's end. They were given the usage to be difference makers, and they gave us a net negative. What a waste.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Yeah and the top 6 produced like that because they were given excessive minutes and near 70% O-zone starts.
Sullivan sacrificed the bottom 6 at the altar to serve those guys.
Did it look worth it to you?

Zucker-Geno-Rakell were a -4 by season's end. They were given the usage to be difference makers, and they gave us a net negative. What a waste.

I'd just get Garland to play with Geno, as there is less age/injury risk as Zucker. If we could get Zucker's season last year for 2 more years, I'd sign up in a heartbeat. That was what Geno and L2 needed.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah and the top 6 produced like that because they were given excessive minutes and near 70% O-zone starts.
Sullivan sacrificed the bottom 6 at the altar to serve those guys.
Did it look worth it to you?

Zucker-Geno-Rakell were a -4 by season's end. They were given the usage to be difference makers, and they gave us a net negative. What a waste.

What a waste of what? Those guys rank somewhere down near the very bottom when it comes to why this team took a giant mediocre shit this year.

I was kidding before but for real... not a Malkin fan, eh? I guess he doesn't PK...

 

[ChaosAgent]

What a waste of what? Those guys rank somewhere down near the very bottom when it comes to why this team took a giant mediocre shit this year.

I was kidding before but for real... not a Malkin fan, eh? I guess he doesn't PK...

Considering deriving less personal self worth from what internet strangers think about Evgeni Malkin

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Considering deriving less personal self worth from what internet strangers think about Evgeni Malkin

Buddy I couldn't give a pale turd. I'm just talkin' here. If what you find coming out sounds stupid so be it... unlike a ton of you lot I don't pretend to know everything.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Buddy I couldn't give a pale turd. I'm just talkin' here. If what you find coming out sounds stupid so be it... unlike a ton of you lot I don't pretend to know everything.

Laughing because it was funny. Not to be a jerk. Love your writing BWM

But in all sincerity if we're trying to maximize skill level to play with Malkin, go after Patrick Kane. I think it wouldnt work, but I would be very entertained

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Laughing because it was funny. Not to be a jerk. Love your writing BWM

Rule one with me is that I take more or less nothing seriously. Life's a f***in' gas.

I do say some stupid inflammatory shit and I pick weird battles. But hey at least I'm self aware.

AB knows this. I hope. And hell if he doesn't I don't mind if he rips me a new one.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Rule one with me is that I take more or less nothing seriously. Life's a f***in' gas.

I do say some stupid inflammatory shit and I pick weird battles. But hey at least I'm self aware.

AB knows this. I hope.

When Skynet became self aware we got nuked. I'm scurred

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

When Skynet became self aware we got nuked. I'm scurred

Eh... I for one welcome our new incoming corpo-controlled AI overlords.

Some jackass is gonna mash ChatGPT and one of those scary ass DARPA-funded Boston Dynamics robo dogs together any day now in some kind of "who gives a f*** anymore YOLO" inspired dystopian feverdream, anyway. So we might as well get comfy.

 

[DrDangles]

I'd assume Carter wouldn't waive for Chicago, but he'd likely waive for Anaheim. Might as well play out your final year in sunny California.

 

[SEALBound]

Zone-Starts – Hockey Graphs

Posts about Zone-Starts written by Matt Cane, Benjamin Wendorf, Garret Hohl, and garik16

hockey-graphs.com

How much do zone starts matter part II: A lot on their own, not that much in aggregate

In Part I of our review of zone starts, we looked at the how the traditional definition of zone starts varied from what most people would consider a “true” zone start, and found that when we applie…

puckplusplus.com

It was the second article that I read about a year ago that may be start to dismiss the binary statement of "Dzone start = expected low production" when none of it account for on-the-fly changes. I still have not found a chart showing the distribution of face-off start (by zone) and change-on-the-fly.

It's why I've been critical of the statements/arugment against (or for) guys like Carter where I (or anyone) says: Jeff Carter sucks. And the reply is "well his dzone start is 50+% so that justifies it". No, that means Jeff Carter and his line have an inability to effectively leave the zone and gain the offensive blue line. That's the issue. Not the zone start. Throughout the course of the game, a player will find themselves on both ends of the ice and the goals and expectations will be the same, regardless of where they started. If they can't exit the zone...of what f***ing good are they and why would be keep having them start in the dzone?

If you want to match up two adv stats to make the worthwhile, check dzone starts and combine them with dzone exits and ozone entries.

What's behind door number 3?

Josh Archibald or Zach Aston Reese.

 

[Gurglesons]

It was the second article that I read about a year ago that may be start to dismiss the binary statement of "Dzone start = expected low production" when none of it account for on-the-fly changes. I still have not found a chart showing the distribution of face-off start (by zone) and change-on-the-fly.

It's why I've been critical of the statements/arugment against (or for) guys like Carter where I (or anyone) says: Jeff Carter sucks. And the reply is "well his dzone start is 50+% so that justifies it". No, that means Jeff Carter and his line have an inability to effectively leave the zone and gain the offensive blue line. That's the issue. Not the zone start. Throughout the course of the game, a player will find themselves on both ends of the ice and the goals and expectations will be the same, regardless of where they started. If they can't exit the zone...of what f***ing good are they and why would be keep having them start in the dzone?

If you want to match up two adv stats to make the worthwhile, check dzone starts and combine them with dzone exits and ozone entries.

I think the argument with Carter is more centered around the idiocy of our coach viewing Carter as a player that he uses as a defensive face-off guy. Which is 100% happening.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

At this point regardless of the cap hit remaining the best realistic outcome in regards to Carter is if he simply retires. The team isn't gonna do the whole LTIR song and dance with him and I doubt he wants to waive to finish his career off on yet another team.

He'd potentially be fine as a situational guy that can help on PP2 and play ~50 games a year with the rest on the bench. Maybe even be fresh enough this way to score a few goals in a possible playoff run. But I don't see Sullivan learning many lessons these days... even hard-earned object lessons such as Jeff Carter. So... yeah...