Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread: We suck again summer edition

[pistolpete11]

Thus, go out and get guys who can score and provide us with things we are missing. We are missing a Hagelin in the bottom 6 IMHO. Athanasiou is as about as close to a modern-day Hagelin as you can get and I trust his ability to do spot duty in the top 6.

Until I see Sullivan behind the bench game 1 or the new GM comes out and confirms Sullivan is staying, I'm still leaning towards him NOT being the coach next year to be quite honest.

I am the exact opposite. I'll believe Sullivan is fired when I see it.

So until then, I'll disagree with brining in an offensive player to play them on a defensive line.....again.

Hagelin and Athanasiou are nothing alike, by the way, other than being super fast.

 

[SEALBound]

Wood is definitely an intriguing player, he is someone I have had an eye on for a middle 6 role on this team for some time.

He was coming back from a major injury last year and didn't seem to have his legs for most of the season but as the season and playoffs went on I started seeing some more of the old Miles Wood. He would be a risk/reward player who definitely brings a skillset that would help our bottom 6

As far as AA he would be the new whipping boy here, guy is one of the streakier players in the NHL and isn't even that good. (he's got some wheels though and good offensive instincts, I dont think he has a clue defending though) Its hard to believe he's already been in the league 8 years......Im getting old

Production is streaky for AA for sure but that;s why you have to find a combination of guys that can still be impactful even when one guy is on a drought. If AA can still provide the speed and forecheck and the other two guys fill the net, then you're okay. You just can't have three offensively anemic guys like Heinen-Carter-Kapenen who all go cold at the same time and there's no one that provides anything that can help the line.

Agreed on Wood and reading some of the devils fans posts, they don't want to bring Wood back. I found he did a good job against Carolina, was involved in the play, forecheck and even created offensive oppertunities. I'd sign him to a 2-3 year contract under 2.5 per

I didn't hate his game in the playoffs. Just don't know what his contract expectations are. I think in the past, I had him on a 2x2mil for the armchair GM. I think AA i had at 2yr x $3mil.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I could genuinely see Nylander getting like 30-40 points and being strong defensively with Malkin, given the appropriate usage. All at the cost of 775K.
His career 5v5 P60 is the same as Zucker and Rakell's. He got booted from the NHL because of his serious injury and 2-way effort, both of which have been solved now.
Give him Rust's usage from this year and I'm very curious to see what happens.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Garland is so small. I'm tired of the NHL lying about height stats. I did the math:

 

[SEALBound]

I am the exact opposite. I'll believe Sullivan is fired when I see it.

So until then, I'll disagree with brining in an offensive player to play them on a defensive line.....again.

Hagelin and Athanasiou are nothing alike, by the way, other than being super fast.

AA is better offensively, CH is better defensively but in case you didn't know, the FA market this off-season is not particularly great nor do we have a ton of assets to use to get a guy like Hagelin.

Garland is so small. I'm tired of the NHL lying about height stats. I did the math:

If you change that to centimeters it might make him seem taller. That's how I measure certain parts of the body.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Interested in Garland for sure. With or without Zucker.

I keep wanting to give Hextall the benefit of the doubt and he thought he was trading for GARLAND and not Granlund

 

[SEALBound]

I keep wanting to give Hextall the benefit of the doubt and he thought he was trading for GARLAND and not Granlund

Just like in the Kapanen trade, I kept wanting them to say "Sorry, not Jesper Lindgren, it was Timothy Liljegren...because...ya know the Penguins gave up a 1st".

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Garland is so small. I'm tired of the NHL lying about height stats. I did the math:

He's not standing erect here. Narrative-driven calculations!

 

[ChaosAgent]

Garland is so small. I'm tired of the NHL lying about height stats. I did the math:

I think height is overrated for hockey players. Look at Crosby. He benefits from lower center of gravity. I"d rather have 5'9 185 with speed over 6'2 180

 

[DrDangles]

I could genuinely see Nylander getting like 30-40 points and being strong defensively with Malkin, given the appropriate usage. All at the cost of 775K.
His career 5v5 P60 is the same as Zucker and Rakell's. He got booted from the NHL because of his serious injury and 2-way effort, both of which have been solved now.
Give him Rust's usage from this year and I'm very curious to see what happens.

Nylander ain't scoring 40 in this league even if you staple him next to McDavid. It's painfully obvious he doesn't have the IQ to be impactful offensively.

 

[Gurglesons]

Alex Nylander being strong defensively is the funniest thing I’ve heard in months.

Production is streaky for AA for sure but that;s why you have to find a combination of guys that can still be impactful even when one guy is on a drought. If AA can still provide the speed and forecheck and the other two guys fill the net, then you're okay. You just can't have three offensively anemic guys like Heinen-Carter-Kapenen who all go cold at the same time and there's no one that provides anything that can help the line.

I didn't hate his game in the playoffs. Just don't know what his contract expectations are. I think in the past, I had him on a 2x2mil for the armchair GM. I think AA i had at 2yr x $3mil.

AA can provide the forecheck? Lol okay.

Guess it is the summer.

 

[pistolpete11]

AA is better offensively, CH is better defensively but in case you didn't know, the FA market this off-season is not particularly great nor do we have a ton of assets to use to get a guy like Hagelin.

As long as Sully is still here, it's a no-go for me, man. Athanasiou is dogshit defensively and would be asked to play in a defensive role. While 40points on the 3rd line sounds nice, that's going to take a hit when he switches from getting 60% O-zone starts to 60% D-zone starts. It would be worse than Kapanen and the majority of this board was thrilled to lose Kapanen for nothing.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Nylander ain't scoring 40 in this league even if you staple him next to McDavid. It's painfully obvious he doesn't have the IQ to be impactful offensively.

Not sure I buy this yet. Looked quite good with the chance generation and possession with Malkin. Pretty unlucky not to get more points. Might break through given more time in the top 6.

Career 5v5 P/P60:
Rakell: 1.76
Zucker: 1.78
Nylander: 1.73

If you're gonna bury him on L3 and give him 70% D-zone starts (as Sully surely will) then yeah, no chance he can reach that. But if you give him Rust's ES minutes from this year and keep him on L2 then I think he could surprise you.
He was Wilkes' leading power play producer, despite playing 17 fewer games than 2nd best (Puustinen). 12 PPG's. For a guy you're claiming has no offensive IQ, that seems a little weird.
He should be on our PP2 next season.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I thought Nylander looked comparable to Rust this past season.

But that's more because Rust was f***in' horrible.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I thought Nylander looked comparable to Rust this past season.

But that's more because Rust was f***in' horrible.

It was working. Just a little more finish next year and they have something cooking.

Nylander's other 2 lines were also dominant in possession.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I dunno. At like 37 years old I would hope this team would actually got get Malkin some help. Not rewind back to the Blake Comeau days. I'm not saying Nylander can't help fill in here and there. But the idea of having him play full time on L2 without an absolute stud on the other side doesn't much excite me. And no Jason Zucker, Granlund, Rust or whoever else is currently on the roster ain't that stud.

 

[DrDangles]

Not sure I buy this yet. Looked quite good with the chance generation and possession with Malkin. Pretty unlucky not to get more points. Might break through given more time in the top 6.

Career 5v5 P/P60:
Rakell: 1.76
Zucker: 1.78
Nylander: 1.73

If you're gonna bury him on L3 and give him 70% D-zone starts (as Sully surely will) then yeah, no chance he can reach that. But if you give him Rust's ES minutes from this year and keep him on L2 then I think he could surprise you.
He was Wilkes' leading power play producer, despite playing 17 fewer games than 2nd best (Puustinen). 12 PPG's. For a guy you're claiming has no offensive IQ, that seems a little weird.
He should be on our PP2 next season.

The AHL is full of PPG players that can't translate it to the NHL, Nylander is one of them. Watching him play it's obvious he can't keep up mentally at NHL speed. His reactions are slow and he doesn't anticipate the play well at all, classic example of having tools but no toolbox IMO.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

The AHL is full of PPG players that can't translate it to the NHL, Nylander is one of them. Watching him play it's obvious he can't keep up mentally at NHL speed. His reactions are slow and he doesn't anticipate the play well at all, classic example of having tools but no toolbox IMO.

While probably true what does that say about Bryan "Contract Year" Rust?

Because I was serious when I said I couldn't tell much different with and without last season.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I dunno. At like 37 years old I would hope this team would actually got get Malkin some help. Not rewind back to the Blake Comeau days. I'm not saying Nylander can't help fill in here and there. But the idea of having him play full time on L2 without an absolute stud on the other side doesn't much excite me. And no Jason Zucker, Granlund, Rust or whoever else is currently on the roster ain't that stud.

Well I suggest this for purposes of strengthening L3, while making L2 marginally less productive, but better defensively.
I like the idea of Rakell on L3 if he's not with Sid. I don't like him with Malkin. The line fails.
Balanced approach for harder matchups. Bigger net gains as a team.

 

[SEALBound]

As long as Sully is still here, it's a no-go for me, man. Athanasiou is dogshit defensively and would be asked to play in a defensive role. While 40points on the 3rd line sounds nice, that's going to take a hit when he switches from getting 60% O-zone starts to 60% D-zone starts. It would be worse than Kapanen and the majority of this board was thrilled to lose Kapanen for nothing.

I've made my position clear on what a shit metric zone starts are to judge nearly anything. So there that.

I'm okay if he pots 20-40pts. A guy like AA can at least help push pace and provide transitionary speed. Kapanen, while fast, did not skate or play fast the vast majority of the time here. Skill-wise, they are probably the same.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

The AHL is full of PPG players that can't translate it to the NHL, Nylander is one of them. Watching him play it's obvious he can't keep up mentally at NHL speed. His reactions are slow and he doesn't anticipate the play well at all, classic example of having tools but no toolbox IMO.

I gave you his NHL production rate. He is producing at a rate that's acceptable from a 2nd liner on a bad team. He just needs the minutes, linemates and O-zone starts to put up more points now.
He made a lot of sound decisions with entries, possession and defense for someone you say doesn't anticipate the play. All 3 of his lines flourished with shot shares and chance generation.

I think it's too soon for summary judgment. Give the guy a chance.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

It's reasonable to think that Nylander doesn't have it at this level.

It's just as reasonable to want to hold of on hardening that conclusion until he's been given more of a shot here.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Well I suggest this for purposes of strengthening L3, while making L2 marginally less productive, but better defensively.
I like the idea of Rakell on L3 if he's not with Sid. I don't like him with Malkin. The line fails.
Balanced approach for harder matchups. Bigger net gains as a team.

I mean I guess at this point I don't care much. Sure give him a shot.

But I suppose I would ask this... what made you dislike Evgeni Malkin so much?

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I've made my position clear on what a shit metric zone starts are to judge nearly anything. So there that.

There's a profoundly strong correlation between production and zone starts. It's a lot more reliable than shit like expected goals.
It's also easier to defend when you get a ton of O-zone starts. The opponents needs to spend a good chunk of their shifts just to get possession in your end.

 

[Gurglesons]

There's a profoundly strong correlation between production and zone starts. It's a lot more reliable than shit like expected goals.
It's also easier to defend when you get a ton of O-zone starts. The opponents needs to spend a good chunk of their shifts just to get possession in your end.

Zone-Starts – Hockey Graphs

Posts about Zone-Starts written by Matt Cane, Benjamin Wendorf, Garret Hohl, and garik16

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How much do zone starts matter part II: A lot on their own, not that much in aggregate

In Part I of our review of zone starts, we looked at the how the traditional definition of zone starts varied from what most people would consider a “true” zone start, and found that when we applie…

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