Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread: We suck again summer edition

[Andy99]

Yeah and the top 6 produced like that because they were given excessive minutes and near 70% O-zone starts.
Sullivan sacrificed the bottom 6 at the altar to serve those guys.
Did it look worth it to you?

Zucker-Geno-Rakell were a -4 by season's end. They were given the usage to be difference makers, and they gave us a net negative. What a waste.

the pet peeve that Sullivan keeps putting Rust on the top line to the detriment of the team was justified…Rakell was not as good with Malkin.…any stupid boring stale coach could see this…I don’t get it really…lines at the end of the season should have been Jake-Sid-Rakell and Zucker-G-Rust at minimum…could that have cost us a game and the POs? Maybe … our finishing did suck but perhaps that change gets us a couple more goals

 

[SEALBound]

At this point regardless of the cap hit remaining the best realistic outcome in regards to Carter is if he simply retires. The team isn't gonna do the whole LTIR song and dance with him and I doubt he wants to waive to finish his career off on yet another team.

He'd potentially be fine as a situational guy that can help on PP2 and play ~50 games a year with the rest on the bench. Maybe even be fresh enough this way to score a few goals in a possible playoff run. But I don't see Sullivan learning many lessons these days... even hard-earned object lessons such as Jeff Carter. So... yeah...

Personally, if they hired me as the GM, I'd do the following:

1. "Hello Bryan, this is SEALBound, your new GM. How's your summer going? Uh hu...uh hu, yeah that's nice, hey I want to talk to you about your NMC. Are you happy in Pittsburgh? Is there any team you would waived your NMC for and if so, who?"

Not that I would 100% trade him but it would at least plant the seed that people are looking at him and he should NOT be as "comfortable" as he seemed to be last year.

2. "Hello Jeff, SEALBound here. Are you willing to waive your NMC and if so, to who? I'll be honest, you will be the 13 or 14F here. If you want to play, waive your NMC and I will do my best to get you to a team that will play you. *click*"

3. "Mike, I'm going to bring in the following players: X, Y, Z. If you make Jeff Carter anything other than the 13/14F with this healthy lineup, I will fire you. This is the red line. You can play him if we have up to two or more injuries. When healthy, he will be on the bench. No discussion. Reirden will take over for you if you cross me on this. *click*"

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Personally, if they hired me as the GM, I'd do the following:

1. "Hello Bryan, this is SEALBound, your new GM. How's your summer going? Uh hu...uh hu, yeah that's nice, hey I want to talk to you about your NMC. Are you happy in Pittsburgh? Is there any team you would waived your NMC for and if so, who?"

Not that I would 100% trade him but it would at least plant the seed that people are looking at him and he should NOT be as "comfortable" as he seemed to be last year.

2. "Hello Jeff, SEALBound here. Are you willing to waive your NMC and if so, to who? I'll be honest, you will be the 13 or 14F here. If you want to play, waive your NMC and I will do my best to get you to a team that will play you. *click*"

3. "Mike, I'm going to bring in the following players: X, Y, Z. If you make Jeff Carter anything other than the 13/14F with this healthy lineup, I will fire you. This is the red line. You can play him if we have up to two or more injuries. When healthy, he will be on the bench. No discussion. Reirden will take over for you if you cross me on this. *click*"

I would hire SEALGM.

I personally do NOT think Bryan Rust is "poised for a bounceback year." I think he's largely just the guy we saw. But I agree that his comfort level is way too high and he gets zany terms tossed his direction such as "ultimate Penguin" that makes me think the brainworms are spreading in this organization. Maybe putting him back on the edge would up his workrate, at least. But were there a real trade scenario available I would sprint headlong into pursuing it.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

the pet peeve that Sullivan keeps putting Rust on the top line to the detriment of the team was justified…Rakell was not as good with Malkin.…any stupid boring stale coach could see this…I don’t get it really…lines at the end of the season should have been Jake-Sid-Rakell and Zucker-G-Rust at minimum…could that have cost us a game and the POs? Maybe … our finishing did suck but perhaps that change gets us a couple more goals

Or Rakell staying on L3 could have been the solution. We may have made Granlund more of a contributor this way.
GCRust was hot to end the season, offensively and defensively. I wasn't keen to break it up.
GCRak had a strong season overall but it did sputter pretty bad before Rust replaced Rakell. Who knows if they coulda found their old form again?

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I would hire SEALGM.

I personally do NOT think Bryan Rust is "poised for a bounceback year." I think he's largely just the guy we saw. But I agree that his comfort level is way too high and he gets zany terms tossed his direction such as "ultimate Penguin" that makes me think the brainworms are spreading in this organization. Maybe putting him back on the edge would up his workrate, at least. But were there a real trade scenario available I would sprint headlong into pursuing it.

Well his shot percentage is bound to improve at least. He shot 4, 5, and 8 % higher the previous 3 years, respectively. I think his average defensively play for the year will be better. I could see him being our best PK'er too.
The durability will very likely be worse though.

It will depend on his PP1 minutes as well. Maybe we have top 6 injuries this time and he fills in. It was a freak season that way. 13 man-games lost in the top 6.

 

[Gurglesons]

Rust and Petry are fine at their cap hits.

I don't think you're going to improve on them with the assets we have and I don't think you'll find a favorable situation to move them into without taking back a worse contract or shittier player.

I'd rather just use the limited assets we have on improving the team rather than shaking up the forward group. Buy out Granlund and make some other moves that push Rust down the line-up.

 

[Pens x]

Rust and Petry are fine at their cap hits.

I don't think you're going to improve on them with the assets we have and I don't think you'll find a favorable situation to move them into without taking back a worse contract or shittier player.

I'd rather just use the limited assets we have on improving the team rather than shaking up the forward group. Buy out Granlund and make some other moves that push Rust down the line-up.

Pixie defending Petry. In other words, water is wet.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Well his shot percentage is bound to improve at least. He shot 4, 5, and 8 % higher the previous 3 years, respectively. I think his average defensively play for the year will be better. I could see him being our best PK'er too.
The durability will very likely be worse though.

It will depend on his PP1 minutes as well. Maybe we have top 6 injuries this time and he fills in. It was a freak season that way. 13 man-games lost in the top 6.

True. I'm not sold on Rust being a super useful powerplay guy even in a pinch, though. I know he's had success here and there in that area over the years but this team already has a dumb enough group on PP1. Dunno if they can afford another powerplay dunce on that unit.

Rust and Petry are fine at their cap hits.

I don't think you're going to improve on them with the assets we have and I don't think you'll find a favorable situation to move them into without taking back a worse contract or shittier player.

I'd rather just use the limited assets we have on improving the team rather than shaking up the forward group. Buy out Granlund and make some other moves that push Rust down the line-up.

Rust will never move down the lineup. Full stop.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I was kidding before but for real... not a Malkin fan, eh? I guess he doesn't PK...

I don't make my opinions about the prosperity of the team based on favorites. Never have. Never will. Feelings go on the backburner.
As proof you're under the impression that I don't like him, when he's my 3rd favorite on the team. Similarly, HoG accused me of hating Kapanen when he was my #2.

Whatever works best for improving team results, whoever gets sacrificed in the process, I don't care.
I would suggest trading my favorite player on the team if I was convinced that's what would help the most. In fact I have done that, when talking about us needing to rebuild ASAP instead of wasting years like we're doing right now.

It's about this <<<<<

NOT this <<<<<

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

But... both pictures are the same.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I don't make my opinions about the prosperity of the team based on favorites. Never have. Never will. Feelings go on the backburner.
As proof you're under the impression that I don't like him, when he's my 3rd favorite on the team. Similarly, HoG accused me of hating Kapanen when he was my #2.

Whatever works best for improving team results, whoever gets sacrificed in the process, I don't care.
I would suggest trading my favorite player on the team if I was convinced that's what would help the most. In fact I have done that, when talking about us needing to rebuild ASAP instead of wasting years like we're doing right now.

It's about this <<<<<

NOT this <<<<<

In this case you aren't even talking about trading Malkin. Just that we should prioritize the 3rd line.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

But... both pictures are the same.

In everyone's eyes here but mine, yes. I know.
You guys have gotten too attached, like Sully with his favorites. Lost sight of objective #1.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Why prioritize the third line?

So they can get buried again by the coach?

What kind of plan is that? You can't just keep throwing money at that problem and expect better results.

Also why wouldn't I be attached to the #1, 2 and probably 3 reason this team has been a huge success for nearly 20 years? Better than getting attached to third liners, goaltenders and pfffffft.... coaches.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Why prioritize the third line?

So they can get buried again by the coach?

What kind of plan is that? You can't just keep throwing money at that problem and expect better results.

Also why wouldn't I be attached to the #1, 2 and probably 3 reason this team has been a huge success for nearly 20 years? Better than getting attached to third liners, goaltenders and pfffffft.... coaches.

#1, #2, and #3 didn't advance past the ECF in 7 years until they got third liners, a goalie and a coach.

But whatever. I'd just bring in Garland, play Rust on the other side and motivate him to pull his head out. Buy out Granlund.

 

[Gurglesons]

Why prioritize the third line?

So they can get buried again by the coach?

What kind of plan is that? You can't just keep throwing money at that problem and expect better results.

Also why wouldn't I be attached to the #1, 2 and probably 3 reason this team has been a huge success for nearly 20 years? Better than getting attached to third liners, goaltenders and pfffffft.... coaches.

If the third line is great it makes it easier to make the analytic argument that it's Sid and Malkin's fault.

See BART.

 

[Pancakes]

I wouldn't object to trading Petry if we could do it. Not because I think he sucks (he doesn't) but he's old and signed for longer than I'd like.

I wouldn't mind moving Petry and taking a run at Severson in UFA.

But, it won't happen. Petry's got that modified NMC and given his age and contract status I don't see a lot of takers for him.

 

[Andy99]

View attachment 708961

Or Rakell staying on L3 could have been the solution. We may have made Granlund more of a contributor this way.
GCRust was hot to end the season, offensively and defensively. I wasn't keen to break it up.
GCRak had a strong season overall but it did sputter pretty bad before Rust replaced Rakell. Who knows if they coulda found their old form again?

Well the answer clearly is not Rakell with Geno

 

[AuroraBorealis]

In this case you aren't even talking about trading Malkin. Just that we should prioritize the 3rd line.

Malkin wasn't tradeable last summer as a UFA. I was talking about Sid.
The chance to blow it up and rebuild properly has passed. They locked themselves in with these deals.
I've accepted that they're not gonna rebuild for 3+ years, so I'm moving on to the best ways to try and win now, even though it looks hopeless.

Not talking about prioritizing L3, really. More about net gains from the Forward corps as a whole.
Balance will work best for us now IMO, because a loaded top 6 (in personnel and usage) doesn't defend well enough to dominate and make that sacrifice worthwhile. Plus I expect their scoring to regress too from this season.

For this team to make the playoffs, none of our go-to lines can be allowed to get nuked defensively, or be worthless offensively anymore. This conference is too strong.

 

[Gurglesons]

I wouldn't object to trading Petry if we could do it. Not because I think he sucks (he doesn't) but he's old and signed for longer than I'd like.

I wouldn't mind moving Petry and taking a run at Severson in UFA.

But, it won't happen. Petry's got that modified NMC and given his age and contract status I don't see a lot of takers for him.

Imagine if we traded Petry for younger less physical Petry

 

[ChaosAgent]

Malkin wasn't tradeable last summer as a UFA. I was talking about Sid.
The chance to blow it up and rebuild properly has passed. They locked themselves in with these deals.
I've accepted that they're not gonna rebuild for 3+ years, so I'm moving on to the best ways to try and win now, even though it looks hopeless.

Not talking about prioritizing L3, really. More about net gains from the Forward corps as a whole.
Balance will work best for us now IMO, because a loaded top 6 doesn't defend well enough to dominate and make that sacrifice worthwhile. Plus I expect their scoring to regress too from this season.

For this team to make the playoffs, none of our go-to lines can be allowed to get nuked defensively, or be worthless offensively anymore. This conference is too strong.

I think Garland/Zucker-Geno-Rust can be a very good line. Ask Rust to waive his NTC. Rattle his cage.

I'm not sure I agree with your point that the lack of DZ% enables the bad defensive habits, but I'm up for trying. I see the merits even though I'm not agreed until I see it

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

#1, #2, and #3 didn't advance past the ECF in 7 years until they got third liners, a goalie and a coach.

But whatever. I'd just bring in Garland, play Rust on the other side and motivate him to pull his head out. Buy out Granlund.

Despite my grousing and gleeful way in which I keep poking you guys with a stick... it's not at all worth getting all worked up about anymore. This past year or next year should have been the time to reap the benefits of whatever retool and savvy/bold series of moves Hextall/whoever never made. The payoff... not the start over point, in other words. We're all sitting here stamping our feet and getting mad over a gnarly piece of road kill, now.

I'm not one of these dorks who is still mad that they didn't blow up the core but can't actually articulate why it would have helped. Nor am I one of these sad individuals who is actively cheering for them to fail. But I mean... we're looking for ways at this point just to get them into the dance and see if some things break right to maybe get them to the ECF and end this era at least on a somewhat high note. Not contend.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'd pay nothing to acquire Garland. If we can get him for that I'd be good.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Despite my grousing and gleeful way in which I keep poking you guys with a stick... it's not at all worth getting all worked up about anymore. This past year or next year should have been the time to reap the benefits of whatever retool and savvy/bold series of moves Hextall/whoever never made. The payoff... not the start over point, in other words. We're all sitting here stamping our feet and getting mad over a gnarly piece of road kill, now.

I'm not one of these dorks who is still mad that they didn't blow up the core but can't actually articulate why it would have helped. Nor am I one of these sad individuals who is actively cheering for them to fail. But I mean... we're looking for ways at this point just to get them into the dance and see if some things break right to maybe get them to the ECF and end this era at least on a somewhat high note. Not contend.

It's all good. As noted I think a Malkin-Kane line is a defensive disaster. I'm not willing to pay JR's asking price for Miller given where we are currently at.

If your main objective is building a good Malkin line, this year's Zucker and 2021's Rust are a great way to get there. Not some Kessel 2019 abomination.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I think Garland/Zucker-Geno-Rust can be a very good line

Yeah, I'm convinced it could be.

I'm not sure I agree with your point that the lack of DZ% enables the bad defensive habits

That wasn't the point I was making today. I'm saying that giving 70% O-zone starts and huge minutes to Malkin and Sid isn't paying off. More Malkin's line than Sid's though.
If you sacrifice that hard for the top 6 to carry, those lines need to come away with strong goal differentials to make what you sacrificed in the bottom 6 worth it.

But yeah, I'd argue that having low D-zone starts makes lines sloppy defensively often, because they aren't afraid to make stupid mistakes so far away from their net. Then they get burned in transition all the time like ZMRak did. When you get more D-zone starts you commence your shifts with a defensive structure/mindset more often. It's good for habits in the long run, cuz you don't take shit for granted.
Plus I'd argue that lowering O-zone starts for the top 6 when they suck is very healthy for the team, in that accountability exists. The players need to believe in that concept again. It didn't exist this year.
Solid performance didn't get rewarded. Garbage play didn't get punished.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It's all good. As noted I think a Malkin-Kane line is a defensive disaster. I'm not willing to pay JR's asking price for Miller given where we are currently at.

If your main objective is building a good Malkin line, this year's Zucker and 2021's Rust are a great way to get there. Not some Kessel 2019 abomination.

Obviously I've said over and over that I watch sports for entertainment and not some weird armchair coach competition to see why can convince themselves they liked being bored to death more. But having said that it really isn't at all about "ooh Malkin do shiny things!" at all. Not these days. I just don't think sticking some AHLer like Nylander on his wing along with whatever trash-ass game Bryan Rust plays these days is any kind of solution. You want to clean that line up and make it harder to play against but at the expense of scoring then I'm all about it. But some combination of Rust/Garland/Zucker/Raks/Nylander/Granlund is definitely gonna leave you guys unhappy in pretty much every regard. That a giant bucket of "blah."

I don't have any terrific solutions, either. To be clear. I just know that ain't it.