Confirmed with Link: Pär Lindholm for Nic Petan

[Trinity]

Par was what I expected...underwhelming. Chevy definetley lost this trade.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Par was what I expected...underwhelming. Chevy definetley lost this trade.

Do you think Petan was going to sign here this off-season?

He was moved because he wanted a fresh start somewhere.

What else could we have gotten for him? Chevy traded a UFA 13th forward for a UFA 13th forward.

 

[Ducky10]

The low bar some set for 4th line players here is baffling, incredibly short sighted as well.

Lindholm has a good game because he doesn't do anything anyone notices. Exciting.

 

[iannn]

He was fine and the reality is when we're healthy I wouldn't want to see either of him or Petan in the lineup. To me it's a wash, they both have very large gaps in their game that will keep them out of most NHL lineups (and especially a contenders). I think personally I'd rather have Lindholm as a depth injury guy because while he provides no offense, he'll be far less of a liability if he's caught out against a bad matchup.

 

[surixon]

He was fine and the reality is when we're healthy I wouldn't want to see either of him or Petan in the lineup. To me it's a wash, they both have very large gaps in their game that will keep them out of most NHL lineups (and especially a contenders). I think personally I'd rather have Lindholm as a depth injury guy because while he provides no offense, he'll be far less of a liability if he's caught out against a bad matchup.

The numbers say he is more of a liability because he gets out shot and out chanced where as Petan out shoots and out chances.

I get it coaches are incredibly risk adverse and tend to like players who grind and play simple games on the fourth line because for some reason they feel the simpleness makes them safer players then the more creative types. At the end of the day the whole point of hockey is to score more then the other team, not sure why coaches are so concerned with trying to limit offense on the fourth line. They should treat the line like any other, construct it to attack and outscore the opposition.

 

[KingBogo]

I disagree with your philosophy. Why dress a placeholder line if you can dress a line that can dictate play and pop a few goals in.

Lindholm is 3 or so years older and has vastly inferior numbers.

Petan 53.2% CF and a 1.8 p/60
Lindholm 46.9% CF and a 1.2 p/60

We downgraded from a player who drives possession and scores at a 2nd/3rd line rate to an older player who scores at a fourth line rate and gets caved in possession wise.

But hey he looks like he is trying out there and can kill penalties. Style over substance yet again.

Where did you get 53.2% CF% for Petan's career? When I looked it up it was a shade below 50%.

 

[Atoyot]

Fun fact (small sample alert) Petan was the Jets' top Corsi player this season when we traded him.

 

[KingBogo]

Fun fact (small sample alert) Petan was the Jets' top Corsi player this season when we traded him.

Very small sample. Against very weak competition.

 

[Atoyot]

Very small sample.

As mentioned.

 

[The Blue Baron]

It cannot be argued Parr maybe a much better fit on the 4th than Nic ever was.Now Par only played 1 game but he looked fantastic in the role.

After 1 game two thumbs up for Par.

 

[surixon]

Very small sample. Against very weak competition.

I was using this year as the comparison as it is the only year both have played at the same time.

 

[Atoyot]

Very small sample. Against very weak competition.

Little has done much worse this season against similarly weak competition. As has Lemieux, Appleton, Laine, Roslovic, etc etc. It's not bad to have a 4th line player who can dominate lesser competition.

 

[KingBogo]

I was using this year as the comparison as it is the only year both have played at the same time.

Wouldn't you consider career CF% as a better measure?

 

[KingBogo]

Little has done much worse this season against similarly weak competition. As has Lemieux, Appleton, Laine, Roslovic, etc etc. It's not bad to have a 4th line player who can dominate lesser competition.

Are you sure you want to measure all those players along the same spectrum? Laine has consistently played against top 6 competition.

 

[surixon]

Wouldn't you consider career CF% as a better measure?

One has a career that started at age 26 (Players physical peak) and one started at age 20 as an undersized not physically ready player. Even so his career corsi is superior as is his career rel corsi while being a much younger player.

Not sure what the big deal is here, we got an older Maurice type that isn't at all effective. It was a waste of a trade, I would have rather taken a 6th or 7th round pick or held onto him to package him with Trouba or Perrualt this summer.

 

[Atoyot]

Are you sure you want to measure all those players along the same spectrum? Laine has consistently played against top 6 competition.

I don't think that's true but all my QoC go-tos have been shut down recently. Laine-Little has been pretty sheltered this season especially at home with Scheif and Lowry's lines taking a very large chunk of the top 6 matchups.

 

[Atoyot]

Just to delve further into the kind of season Little has been having, as some got pretty enraged over a couple posters (myself included) suggesting that it was probably best that he be moved to the wing. He's had a rough season defensively while not being used in a defensive role and having ~60% offensive zone starts.

 

[surixon]

Just to delve further into the kind of season Little has been having, as some got pretty enraged over a couple posters (myself included) suggesting that it was probably best that he be moved to the wing. He's had a rough season defensively while not being used in a defensive role and having ~60% offensive zone starts.

Yikes, didn't think it was that bad. Playing mostly with the Myers pairing and young wingers certainly doesn't help though.

What do Petan's and Lindholms charts look like.

 

[KingBogo]

One has a career that started at age 26 (Players physical peak) and one started at age 20 as an undersized not physically ready player. Even so his career corsi is superior as is his career rel corsi while being a much younger player.

Not sure what the big deal is here, we got an older Maurice type that isn't at all effective. It was a waste of a trade, I would have rather taken a 6th or 7th round pick or held onto him to package him with Trouba or Perrualt this summer.

But to be fair you are also comparing to a player a player adapting to a new league. In all honesty Petan had little to no value and if Chevy was going to be true to his word in giving him an opportunity elsewhere Linholm was a serviceable player back. Too bad for Petan he landed with an even more of an old school coach in Babs. I'll almost guarantee you Babs would prefer to have the serviceable and predictable Par over Petan for his 4th line.

 

[Atoyot]

Yikes, didn't think it was that bad. Playing mostly with the Myers pairing and young wingers certainly doesn't help though.

What do Petan's and Lindholms charts look like.

Hard to really judge Petan because of the sample size and I think the heatmap is a lot more indicative of a centerman's skills than a winger's, but

Pretty good. Not a whole lot of shots from the areas he's expected to protect.

Lindholm's is good too, but again mostly in front of the net where he never played. His own defensive side as a winger seems to have been left open a lot.

 

[surixon]

But to be fair you are also comparing to a player a player adapting to a new league. In all honesty Petan had little to no value and if Chevy was going to be true to his word in giving him an opportunity elsewhere Linholm was a serviceable player back. Too bad for Petan he landed with an even more of an old school coach in Babs. I'll almost guarantee you Babs would prefer to have the serviceable and predictable Par over Petan for his 4th line.

Of course Babs would, likely why the forward thinking GM shipped him off so that his coach couldn't use him. It will be very interesting to see how Dubois and Babs coexist moving forward as I think the GM has a completely different philosophy on the type of players he wants on his roster.

 

[surixon]

Hard to really judge Petan because of the sample size and I think the heatmap is a lot more indicative of a centerman's skills than a winger's, but

Pretty good. Not a whole lot of shots from the areas he's expected to protect.

Lindholm's is good too, but again mostly in front of the net where he never played. His own defensive side as a winger seems to have been left open a lot.

Thanks for this, so really neither is a defensive liability but Petan likely was better at driving offense. I just want to play effective players no matter what that player looks like on the ice.

 

[Atoyot]

Thanks for this, so really neither is a defensive liability but Petan likely was better at driving offense. I just want to play effective players no matter what that player looks like on the ice.

Yeah like I said, hard to say much of anything with Petan's sample size. The main thing I take from Lindholm's is man does Gauthier and co. ever keep the front of the net clear. Looking at that versus Little's graph might give an idea as to why Andersen is a Vezina candidate and Hellebuyck isn't this season.

 

[Peggy]

It was a bad trade

you can spin it anyway you want

But Petan has more value than par lindholm

Traded more value for less value

 

[KingBogo]

It was a bad trade

you can spin it anyway you want

But Petan has more value than par lindholm

Traded more value for less value

Chevy has been shopping Petan for a while and Par ended up being an actual return. Doesn't look like anyone would give up more so not sure you can call it a bad trade.