McKenzie: Oilers in on Barrie? (Part II)

[OutForMilk]

Avs get a blue chip prospect plus for a UFA to be in ROR after being told they would get nothing substantial for him and now that return they got is meh? LOL. Never disappoint HF.

Sooooooo, what piece isn't meh? None of them. Crap return.

 

[PAZ]

Best they could find? Problem is, the best they could find kind of sucks. In fact, they totally suck. Not a single piece that belongs on a championship caliber team, or seems to be tracking that way either. Quit trying to sugar coat it. We aren't. We hate the Hall trade. Like I said. Optimism at its finest.

So you're saying the Avs should've either signed him for 8+ mil a year, or let him walk to free agency within a two years? Great idea, you should definitely sign up to be a GM.

 

[Muffin]

Sooooooo, what piece isn't meh? None of them. Crap return.

Zadorov, Grigorenko, Compher, 31st overall. Actually enlighten me on which piece you think is meh? Next season will the first season all three of those players will be in the NHL full time, how can you even judge the trade before they're even playing in the NHL yet? Not to mention the 31st overall turned into AJ Greer and Cam Morrison.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Sooooooo, what piece isn't meh? None of them. Crap return.

It was a futures trade. Are you really trying to judge it one season later? Can we let Compher, Greer and Morrison attend at least one NHL training camp before writing them off as busts? Or see what 21 year old Zadorov does with another year of AHL development under his belt?

 

[Jarey Curry]

Based on my own opinion, I'm gonna say the Avs and Barrie are apart by around 10m for the the length of the contract. The Avs want to give him something like 7 years and 35-39M and Barrie wants 7 years and 45-49M. Or something similar to that.

I think you are very close.

 

[OutForMilk]

So you're saying the Avs should've either signed him for 8+ mil a year, or let him walk to free agency within a two years? Great idea, you should definitely sign up to be a GM.

maybe I should be a gm. I could do the job about as good as this:

112 points, 90 points, 82 points. That's what, a -30 swing in two years? I could do that. It's easy, I saw it in Edmonton for years. Trade legit nhl talent for sub quality return, fail to replace said traded players with quality replacements thru trading or signing ufa's, draft poorly outside of the 1st round, and put inexperienced players in positions above their head where they are bound to fail.

 

[OutForMilk]

Zadorov, Grigorenko, Compher, 31st overall. Actually enlighten me on which piece you think is meh? Next season will the first season all three of those players will be in the NHL full time, how can you even judge the trade before they're even playing in the NHL yet? Not to mention the 31st overall turned into AJ Greer and Cam Morrison.

Unless Colorado went into a mini rebuild last year and failed to let any one know, that trade didn't make them a better team. And none of them are tracking well either. Any of those players can prove me wrong, of course.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

maybe I should be a gm. I could do the job about as good as this:

112 points, 90 points, 82 points. That's what, a -30 swing in two years? I could do that. It's easy, I saw it in Edmonton for years. Trade legit nhl talent for sub quality return, fail to replace said traded players with quality replacements thru trading or signing ufa's, draft poorly outside of the 1st round, and put inexperienced players in positions above their head where they are bound to fail.

And the year before that 112 pt season, where did they finish in the standings? I'd say they've improved since finishing with the 2nd worse record in the league, wouldn't you?

 

[OutForMilk]

And the year before that 112 pt season, where did they finish in the standings? I'd say they've improved since finishing with the 2nd worse record in the league, wouldn't you?

So, you're happy with colorados trajectory? I think when you have to use 4 years ago as some kind of benchmark, you're in trouble. You sound like we did.

 

[OutForMilk]

I'm getting off the point of the thread here, sorry. My point is this: colorados existing management has shown , IMO, that are are both willing to trade talented players as well as shown that they can make poor trades. Lots of room for us to speculate here. Never underestimate what a bad gm will do.

 

[El_Loco_Avs]

I'm getting off the point of the thread here, sorry. My point is this: colorados existing management has shown , IMO, that are are both willing to trade talented players as well as shown that they can make poor trades. Lots of room for us to speculate here. Never underestimate what a bad gm will do.

RoR was never going to sign here. His antics during negotiations have shown enough about his character. Colorado got a solid return. Not a bad one at all and one that should shore up weaknesses while not leaving a gap.
So no. They aren't willing to randomly trade talented players and they haven't made poor trades.

 

[OutForMilk]

RoR was never going to sign here. His antics during negotiations have shown enough about his character. Colorado got a solid return. Not a bad one at all and one that should shore up weaknesses while not leaving a gap.
So no. They aren't willing to randomly trade talented players and they haven't made poor trades.

You sure do like stating your opinions as if they were facts.

 

[Don Corleone]

They aren't willing to randomly trade talented players and they haven't made poor trades.

Not true. While there has not been any really bad deals where they gave up a high quality player for scraps there has certainly been stinkers. Berra and Stuart trades are the obvious examples of trades that were terrible the second they happened.

 

[tucker3434]

Unless Colorado went into a mini rebuild last year and failed to let any one know, that trade didn't make them a better team. And none of them are tracking well either. Any of those players can prove me wrong, of course.

In the short term, no. In the long term we'll see.

And it's totally false none of them are tracking well. Compher had a monster season in Michigan last year, more than doubling his prior career high. He'll probably be with the NHL team at some point this season. Grigorenko had about twice as many points last season as his entire career total points in Buffalo. And Zadorov was .6ppg on one of the worst AHL teams in the league. We could have three NHL players from that trade this year with the oldest one being 22.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Not true. While there has not been any really bad deals where they gave up a high quality player for scraps there has certainly been stinkers. Berra and Stuart trades are the obvious examples of trades that were terrible the second they happened.

So, they risked 2nds and a 6th in attempts to get a decent backup G and a veteran D. I'd say the Berra trade worked out OK. Acquiring Stuart would have been fine if they hadn't extended him before he played a game.

And, keep in mind they just traded Berra for Grimaldi, a former 2nd round pick. And they got back everything they gave up for Stuart in exchange for moving down 8 spots in the second round.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

So, you're happy with colorados trajectory? I think when you have to use 4 years ago as some kind of benchmark, you're in trouble. You sound like we did.

Considering how bad the team was during the Sacco years, I'm absolutely happy with the path the team is on. But, I also understand that rebuilding a roster as bad as Sakic inherited isn't an overnight fix.

 

[Freudian]

Will be an interesting arbitration amount.

He has put up a lot of points, and the people around him (points wise) make some big money.

Almost no player with 50+ points signed a RFA contract and can't be used as a comparable in arbitration.

The RFA contracts that will be used by Avs are Josi ($4M cap hit) and Klingberg ($4.25M cap hit) and by Barrie Spurgeon ($5.187M cap hit) and Krug ($5.25M cap hit).

I very much doubt Ekblad will be used since it's very easy to show a different pedigree and overall game for Avs. The arbitrator will just ignore that argument.

I would be shocked if Barrie gets over $5.5M in arbitration with the comparables that exist.

 

[TFHockey]

Considering how bad the team was during the Sacco years, I'm absolutely happy with the path the team is on. But, I also understand that rebuilding a roster as bad as Sakic inherited isn't an overnight fix.

Wow, you guys really do sound like Edmonton. That is exactly the situation here. Chia inherited a flawed line up and can't fix everything overnight.

Both GMs have their work cut out for them.

 

[tempest2i]

Almost no player with 50+ points signed a RFA contract and can't be used as a comparable in arbitration.

The RFA contracts that will be used by Avs are Josi ($4M cap hit) and Klingberg ($4.25M cap hit) and by Barrie Spurgeon ($5.187M cap hit) and Krug ($5.25M cap hit).

I very much doubt Ekblad will be used since it's very easy to show a different pedigree and overall game for Avs. The arbitrator will just ignore that argument.

I would be shocked if Barrie gets over $5.5M in arbitration with the comparables that exist.

Both Doughty and Pietrangelo had seasons where they hit 40+ and 50+ points prior to signing their current RFA contracts. Their contracts start with salaries ranging from 5.5M through 7M through comparable years that the arbitrator will be awarding in the Barrie case.

 

[Freudian]

Both Doughty and Pietrangelo had seasons where they hit 40+ and 50+ points prior to signing their current RFA contracts. Their contracts start with salaries ranging from 5.5M through 7M through comparable years that the arbitrator will be awarding in the Barrie case.

Same as with Ekblad. You can't make a credible case that Doughty and Pietrangelo are good comparables for Barrie. They are all-star players, top two/four overall picks, Olympians and have an all-round game Barrie doesn't have.

Newport Sports aren't going to use them as comparables because it'll just be ignored by the arbitrator. Avs will easily prove they are terrible comparables.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

You sure do like stating your opinions as if they were facts.

You mean kinda like calling a trade bad before some of the players/prospects acquired in the trade ever step foot in the NHL and others are still developing?

 

[tempest2i]

Same as with Ekblad. You can't make a credible case that Doughty and Pietrangelo are good comparables for Barrie. They are all-star players, top two/four overall picks, Olympians and have an all-round game Barrie doesn't have.

Newport Sports aren't going to use them as comparables because it'll just be ignored by the arbitrator. Avs will easily prove they are terrible comparables.

I'm almost certain Newport will be using those players as comparables. As a professional agency, I expect they have a good handle on how the arbitration process will go and what they need to do to get their client (and in turn, themselves) the most money.

 

[ManofSteel55]

I'm almost certain Newport will be using those players as comparables. As a professional agency, I expect they have a good handle on how the arbitration process will go and what they need to do to get their client (and in turn, themselves) the most money.

As a professional agency, they should also realize that using ridiculous comparables probably hurts their argument rather than helps it. There are other good comparables out there without them having to make ridiculous arguments.

 

[tempest2i]

As a professional agency, they should also realize that using ridiculous comparables probably hurts their argument rather than helps it. There are other good comparables out there without them having to make ridiculous arguments.

Point scoring Dmen get paid. Always.

 

[smackdaddy]

You mean kinda like calling a trade bad before some of the players/prospects acquired in the trade ever step foot in the NHL and others are still developing?

So what, you want to put the trade on the shelf while it matures for a few years before anyone gets to analyze it?

Trade stinks now and that's what matters. The dice roll is that it won't down the line but odds aren't good