McKenzie: Oilers in on Barrie? (Part II)

[strictlyrandy]

Every team has a cupboard full of prospects like this so don't hold your breath

A cupboard full of blue chip prospects like Zadorov? Neat. Amazing how little value prospects and players have once they become Avs. Especially considering how untouchable they were beforehand.

Avs fans get told their players are worth nothing special, then when they return something special, that special gets downgraded to likely busts and meh every team has those guys. Hilarious really.

There's a reason Avs fans are high on guys like Zadorov, Bigras, Compher, and Greer. It's because they all have legitimate chances to be impact players in the NHL.

Seems some of you can't comprehend that if the Avs had signed ROR, they couldn't afford Barrie and MacKinnon. ROR is a fantastic player, which some of you didn't believe until he left the Avs, but he is most certainly not worth that cap crunch the Avs would have been under. It was a win / win trade for both clubs. Some of you just don't want to believe that the Avs can do any good though, so props to you I guess. Keep telling Avs fans how bad their players are though.

 

[strictlyrandy]

Boy was this thread derailed. So what's the update on Barrie to the Oilers?

Not happening. Sakic has said that one way or the other, Barrie is remaining in an Avs jersey. He likes the kid and I'm willing to bet a long term deal is reached before arbitration.

Now if the Oilers were to want Cody McLeod or John Mitchell...

 

[Avsblitzkrieg]

Why are we talking about the ROR trade here? Let's get back to Yak + 2nd for Barrie

I counter with Comeau, Gelinas and a 3rd for mcdavid.

 

[tempest2i]

Boy was this thread derailed. So what's the update on Barrie to the Oilers?

Probably 12 months away unless something unexpected happens.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Every team has a cupboard full of prospects like this so don't hold your breath

Zadorov at the time of the trade had a similar value to what Nurse does now IMO. Not every team has a prospect of that caliber on D.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Not happening. Sakic has said that one way or the other, Barrie is remaining in an Avs jersey. He likes the kid and I'm willing to bet a long term deal is reached before arbitration.

Now if the Oilers were to want Cody McLeod or John Mitchell...

I know that we see a lot of GM's saying stuff like this but how often is it more of a negotiating ploy than reality? Didn't Montreal's GM say that Subban wasn't available? I know that Poille said that Jones wasn't available seemingly weeks before he was moved to Columbus. Not saying that Barrie gets dealt for sure or anything like that, but I wouldn't take it to the bank that he won't either. Sakic will do what he feels is best for the team regardless of what he's said to the press, he'd be a poor GM otherwise IMO.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

Zadorov at the time of the trade had a similar value to what Nurse does now IMO. Not every team has a prospect of that caliber on D.

Watching both in the OHL I don't think Zadorov ever was of the same caliber as Nurse. Zadorov in the OHL was a very good defenseman with moments of brilliance, Nurse was completely dominant d-man who rarely had a single shift where he wasn't making a positive contribution out there.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Watching both in the OHL I don't think Zadorov ever was of the same caliber as Nurse. Zadorov in the OHL was a very good defenseman with moments of brilliance, Nurse was completely dominant d-man who rarely had a single shift where he wasn't making a positive contribution out there.

Who has had the better transition to the pro game so far? Zadorov would absolutely crush guys with hits. I didn't see much of either in junior but their draft pedigrees were similar and my main point was that Zadorov was not a David Musil type of D, he was a highly regarded prospect at the time that the trade went down.

 

[EscapedGoat]

Who has had the better transition to the pro game so far? Zadorov would absolutely crush guys with hits. I didn't see much of either in junior but their draft pedigrees were similar and my main point was that Zadorov was not a David Musil type of D, he was a highly regarded prospect at the time that the trade went down.

This is your second post today where you've said he "was" a highly regarded prospect.

What has made you, and many other posters on this thread, change your mind over the last year? Have you watched his development in the AHL and seen flaws in his game? Have you watched him play and seen a lack of development?

I'm going to assume you didn't see him play a single game last year. All that's changed is the sweater he wears and all of a sudden he "was" a highly regarded prospect. Funny how that works, huh?

 

[Avenger*]

Considering he just signed MacKinnon for a 6.3 cap hit.. he really doesn't. Little known fact, they also offered Stastny more than 6 to stay. Keep on with that narrative though even though it's false.

Sakic didn't have a choice in this case. The market clearly indicates that a player of MacKinnon's stature that the team threw a year in the trash for by tanking to obtain had to be paid more.

Quite frankly, I also wouldn't be using $300K as a supporting argument. That amount is barely over the $6 million dollar amount.

 

[Rebuilt]

This is your second post today where you've said he "was" a highly regarded prospect.

What has made you, and many other posters on this thread, change your mind over the last year? Have you watched his development in the AHL and seen flaws in his game? Have you watched him play and seen a lack of development?

I'm going to assume you didn't see him play a single game last year. All that's changed is the sweater he wears and all of a sudden he "was" a highly regarded prospect. Funny how that works, huh?

I thought the Avs bent the Sabres over in that deal but its going to take a few years to bare fruit.

 

[Hennessy]

I love underdogs. Always root hard for losers. A decade+ of you Edmonton guys? Continue.

 

[Avenger*]

The Avs are one of the most tight lipped organizations out there. I'd safely bet my next paycheck that he knows nothing about what Roy thinks of Barrie. You keep hammering this whole "there's no proof Roy didn't say it"... except there is...right in front of you. Roy played Barrie well over 20 minutes a game. A number 5 defenseman doesn't get those kind of minutes. You're so bent on wanting to believe that Roy hates Barrie that you completely ignore facts because they don't suit your own agenda.

There's more to believe on Stauffer's end then that coming from the Colorado camp. Stauffer has accurately predicted several league wide moves the last few years where as Sakic stated they had no interest in moving ROR and then did the exact opposite a few days later. Ice time also doesn't indicate a personal opinion of a player. Justin Schultz regularily topped 20+ minutes a night in Edmonton despite everyone and their dog knowing that he shouldn't have been and was finally moved when new managament had the first opportunity.

Again, these arguments against are just as poor as those for.

 

[Rebuilt]

I love underdogs. Always root hard for losers. A decade+ of you Edmonton guys? Continue.

They cant hear you. They got 5 stanley cup rings in their ears and are looking at a photo of the greatest player to ever play - and only one to have the entire league retire his number.

 

[strictlyrandy]

Sakic didn't have a choice in this case. The market clearly indicates that a player of MacKinnon's stature that the team threw a year in the trash for by tanking to obtain had to be paid more.

Quite frankly, I also wouldn't be using $300K as a supporting argument. That amount is barely over the $6 million dollar amount.

Hilarious man. You get shown facts and stats that prove your arguments false, but you refuse believe anything but your own special narrative.

"Avs don't pay anyone more than 6 million!"

"Uh, they just paid MacKinnon over 6 million."

"Sakic didn't have a choice, $300K doesn't count!"

I think we've seen all we need to see from you. You clearly have your own agenda/narrative and refuse to listen to logic and statistics. Good for you. You enjoy your day, I'm done with you.

 

[strictlyrandy]

There's more to believe on Stauffer's end then that coming from the Colorado camp. Stauffer has accurately predicted several league wide moves the last few years where as Sakic stated they had no interest in moving ROR and then did the exact opposite a few days later. Ice time also doesn't indicate a personal opinion of a player. Justin Schultz regularily topped 20+ minutes a night in Edmonton despite everyone and their dog knowing that he shouldn't have been and was finally moved when new managament had the first opportunity.

Again, these arguments against are just as poor as those for.

Wait a minute...you claim to believe that Roy thinks Barrie is nothing more than a #5 D, but him playing more than 20 minutes a night doesn't mean anything?! You do know Roy is the coach and that he chooses who plays for how long right? If Roy thought Barrie was nothing more than a 5 D, Barrie wouldn't be playing 20 minutes a night. That's all there is to it.

TL;DR: You think coach Roy thinks that Barrie is nothing more than a #5 D. Yet that Barrie plays more than 20 minutes a game, doesn't mean that Roy thinks he's more than that, despite Roy actually choosing to play Barrie that much?

Holy crap. You're a wonderful source of amusement.

 

[Avenger*]

Mighty strong words for someone who posted this earlier.



or this



Pot, meet Kettle

MacKinnon is currently making over 6m and would be the highest paid player on the Oilers. I mean, It isn't like in the past the Oilers have been willing to go out and do what it takes to fix their defense either. Perhaps even spend over $6m themselves.

Not sure where you are confused? There is nothing wrong with what I posted earlier regarding arbitration. Also, (although, I'm unsure how it's relevant) if the Oilers had an opportunity to pick up an elite d-man that commanded a salary higher then $6 million there wouldn't be an issue. The Oilers aren't the ones in the situation of holding out in paying a player what he's worth.

 

[Avenger*]

Hilarious man. You get shown facts and stats that prove your arguments false, but you refuse believe anything but your own special narrative.

"Avs don't pay anyone more than 6 million!"

"Uh, they just paid MacKinnon over 6 million."

"Sakic didn't have a choice, $300K doesn't count!"

I think we've seen all we need to see from you. You clearly have your own agenda/narrative and refuse to listen to logic and statistics. Good for you. You enjoy your day, I'm done with you.

in the NHL, 300K is splitting hairs. You should know that by now.

 

[Rebuilt]

in the NHL, 300K is splitting hairs. You should know that by now.

Why dont the Avs want to give Barrie 6mil + ? If Mac Kinnon was crackin 90 points he would be getting 8 or 9 million no?

 

[Avenger*]

Wait a minute...you claim to believe that Roy thinks Barrie is nothing more than a #5 D, but him playing more than 20 minutes a night doesn't mean anything?! You do know Roy is the coach and that he chooses who plays for how long right? If Roy thought Barrie was nothing more than a 5 D, Barrie wouldn't be playing 20 minutes a night. That's all there is to it.

TL;DR: You think coach Roy thinks that Barrie is nothing more than a #5 D. Yet that Barrie plays more than 20 minutes a game, doesn't mean that Roy thinks he's more than that, despite Roy actually choosing to play Barrie that much?

Holy crap. You're a wonderful source of amusement.

Obviously, you failed to comprehend what I said. The point I'm making is that players regularily are played more minutes then they should be. Is that the case for Barrie? Possibly not. But using ice time as an indication of what Roy personally sees the players as has no relevant context here. It's a poor arguement.

 

[strictlyrandy]

Obviously, you failed to comprehend what I said. The point I'm making is that players regularily are played more minutes then they should be. Is that the case for Barrie? Possibly not. But using ice time as an indication of what Roy personally sees the players as has no relevant context here. It's a poor arguement.

Suggesting that Roy views Barrie as and then arguing that the ice time Roy gives Barrie doesn't mean anything is absolutely and totally ridiculous. The coach controls ice time. If Roy viewed Barrie as a #5 defenceman, he'd play him as such. Plain and simple. There's absolutely no argument you can make against that.

If a coach doesn't trust a player and views them as only deserving of a limited role, that player isn't gifted extra minutes. It's black and white, yet you're trying to insist there's a grey area when there just isn't. This isn't a courtroom for you to argue semantics. The statistics disagree with everything you say. The numbers do not lie.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

in the NHL, 300K is splitting hairs. You should know that by now.

Is $6.3m greater than $6m or not? Stop moving the goal posts when people prove you wrong.

 

[Avenger*]

Why dont the Avs want to give Barrie 6mil + ? If Mac Kinnon was crackin 90 points he would be getting 8 or 9 million no?

Possibly but that hasn't happened. 50+ points for a d-man is equivelant to 80 for a forwawd. What's to say that situation wouldn't be decided in arbitration as well? Currently Mackinnon is slightly over paid based on age and potential.

 

[Avenger*]

Is $6.3m greater than $6m or not? Stop moving the goal posts when people prove you wrong.

There's nothing to move.

$6.3 is closer to 6 then 7. Pretty sure that's something you learn in elementry school

We're also talking NHL money here where 300K ends up in the governments pocket anyway.

 

[Makar Goes Fast]

in the NHL, 300K is splitting hairs. You should know that by now.

300k is tons of money dont be rediculous.

it adds up to 2.1 million at the end of the contract.

no chance anyone in the nhl views 300k as splitting hairs.