Speculation: Offseason Thread XVII: Trade a spade for a jade

[I Eat Crow]

Am i alone in thinking that Yandle was a slightly better player than Shatty?

I'm sure that you aren't the only one, but I disagree. Shattenkirk is the much better player overall.

 

[RangerBoy]

If Girardi and Staal are gone, I see no reason why this team shouldn't add Shattenkirk.

Why didn't they just pay Yandle than having to fork over more assets for Shattenkirk? Staal and Girardi are still on the team.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

It mostly has to do with GP, which Trouba is going to meet regardless of the team he's on.

Anyone with less than two years of pro hockey experience are exempt, but Trouba is beyond this.

All in all, Trouba would need to be protected either through selection, or his next contract has an NMC. Otherwise, he will be exposed.

If Trouba gets an NMC, it won't kick in until after his RFA years, per the rules of the CBA. And even if that weren't true, and the Rangers were to acquire him and give him that NMC, then McDonagh would have to be exposed. Trading one problem for another.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be all over a deal for Trouba if it could be done (and figure out the 2017 once you've got him - something along the lines of getting Girardi to waive under the threat of buyout), but one of the appealing things about Honka is that he's exempt from the expansion draft.

 

[FLYLine27*]

Am i alone in thinking that Yandle was a slightly better player than Shatty?

Shatty >> Yandle.


Shatty's defense is much better than Yandle's.

 

[Ghost of jas]

The Rangers traded a #1 and Duclair for Yandle. They do not re-sign Yandle and then trade more assets for Shattenkirk and give him at minimum the Yandle deal.

The needs at the time of the Yandle deal are different than the current needs. The Rangers have a greater need for a quality RHD that can play top 4 minutes. Yandle turned out to be a luxury they could not afford, especially with Skjei ready. Yandle is also two years older than Shattenkirk. There are reasons that Shattenkirk would fit into this lineup better than Yandle. Would I prefer adding younger players like a Trouba, Honka or Dumba? Yes, but given that the best RHD this team has is Kevin Klein, I'm open to a deal for Shattenkirk under the proper circumstances.

 

[Irishguy42]

If Trouba gets an NMC, it won't kick in until after his RFA years, per the rules of the CBA. And even if that weren't true, and the Rangers were to acquire him and give him that NMC, then McDonagh would have to be exposed. Trading one problem for another.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be all over a deal for Trouba if it could be done (and figure out the 2017 once you've got him - something along the lines of getting Girardi to waive under the threat of buyout), but one of the appealing things about Honka is that he's exempt from the expansion draft.

Good point. Totally forgot about that for a moment.

I think if the Rangers make a trade for a Top-4 RHD like Trouba/Shattenkirk/etc., an actual NHL ready player, then one of Staal/Girardi is definitely going to be gone before expansion happens.

 

[Ori]

I don`t think we should move Nash or another forward for a D core player, because it`s not certain that Buch can fill those top roles on the 2nd or 1st line in his first NHL season.
I know the hopes are high and all that, but I`m a realist too. I don`t have seen enough of him from Russia to be that hopeful to be honest.
And again I really doubt that AV have plans to use Buch as a 1st or 2nd role player in his first NHL season.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

If Girardi and Staal are gone, I see no reason why this team shouldn't add Shattenkirk.

Eminently possible in the summer of '17. Do it then.

 

[Trxjw]

Frankly Trouba would be the best of the "big time" additions for the blue line, but, as has been said countless times, we simply don't have the pieces to land him from Winnipeg. He'd give us what I think is the perfect partner for McDonagh. Two guys who can play against anyone in the league, but are multi-dimensional to the point that they can generate offense as well and serve as a 2nd PP unit.

I see Shattenkirk as a high-end #3; A PP specialist. He's not the guy you put on the top pairing and I think the fact that he'll be 29 in the first year of his deal makes him an unlikely target.

 

[aufheben]

Good point. Totally forgot about that for a moment.

I think if the Rangers make a trade for a Top-4 RHD like Trouba/Shattenkirk/etc., an actual NHL ready player, then one of Staal/Girardi is definitely going to be gone before expansion happens.

How is this happening though?

 

[silverfish]

Why didn't they just pay Yandle than having to fork over more assets for Shattenkirk? Staal and Girardi are still on the team.

Because Girardi and Staal are still on the team. There was no room for Yandle. The Rangers backed the wrong d-men. Hindsight is 20/20. It happens. It'll happen again.

Eminently possible in the summer of '17. Do it then.

Absolutely.

The only reason I'm opposed to adding Shattenkirk for this season via trade is because I know G and Staal aren't going anywhere.

This team absolutely competes if you trade for Shatty and replace G's 22 mins a night with him. But that can't happen right now.

Don't trade for him. Get rid of G and Staal. Sign Shatty? **** yeah, sign me up.

 

[Lion Hound]

I just can't see the Rangers trading for Shattenkirk with Nash or Zucc going the other way...Unless an "un-desireable" contract was to also be included. A Girardi or Staal. Also don't think that #5 or #18 would be of interest to the Blues as they seem to be in a good spot with their current D.


Shatty as a Free agent coming to NY I think has a very good chance of happening if Nash is off the books at the trade deadline. If Nash remains a NYR, I just don't see it happening. Or...if Nash's return comes with a salary dump that also might prohibit Shattenkirk from signing with the Rangers next UFA period.

 

[Irishguy42]

How is this happening though?

No idea. I was just putting his name out there because he's been frequently discussed.

I was just trying to make a point about how if the Rangers make a trade for a RHD like Trouba/Shatty/etc, it likely means that one of Staal/Girardi are gone before expansion.

 

[aufheben]

No idea. I was just putting his name out there because he's been frequently discussed.

I was just trying to make a point about how if the Rangers make a trade for one of those RHD players, it likely means that one of Staal/Girardi are gone before expansion.

Winnipeg has like 45 wingers.

 

[RangerBoy]

The needs at the time of the Yandle deal are different than the current needs. The Rangers have a greater need for a quality RHD that can play top 4 minutes. Yandle turned out to be a luxury they could not afford, especially with Skjei ready. Yandle is also two years older than Shattenkirk. There are reasons that Shattenkirk would fit into this lineup better than Yandle. Would I prefer adding younger players like a Trouba, Honka or Dumba? Yes, but given that the best RHD this team has is Kevin Klein, I'm open to a deal for Shattenkirk under the proper circumstances.

Brady Skjei was ready to turn pro after his junior year. The Rangers thought he was ready. The Yandle deal made no sense. The Rangers made the deal. They traded assets for Yandle. Now they are trading more assets for Shattenkirk and giving him the Yandle contract at minimum. They look even more stupid.

 

[Ori]

I just can't see the Rangers trading for Shattenkirk with Nash or Zucc going the other way...Unless an "un-desireable" contract was to also be included. A Girardi or Staal. Also don't think that #5 or #18 would be of interest to the Blues as they seem to be in a good spot with their current D.


Shatty as a Free agent coming to NY I think has a very good chance of happening if Nash is off the books at the trade deadline. If Nash remains a NYR, I just don't see it happening. Or...if Nash's return comes with a salary dump that also might prohibit Shattenkirk from signing with the Rangers next UFA period.

Yes, I agree, if shattenkirk have plans to play in NY - then we should wait until he is a free agent. It`s not worth to give away a top 6 player before that happen and Gordon won`t do that as a GM.

 

[Irishguy42]

Winnipeg has like 45 wingers.

I feel like you're missing my point...

I was just using Trouba as a name to make a point. Not as an actual suggestion.

I edited my post to make it a bit clearer.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Eminently possible in the summer of '17. Do it then.

The cost could be higher financially at that point, and that could also be a consideration by Gorton. Gorton has he is willing to get younger, but, he has yet to show he's willing to trade for prospects. So the idea that he'll trade Nash, Klein or Zucc for prospects does not seem to be his modus operandi. He traded for a younger player whose developmental curve is still on the upswing, but is established enough to play regular minutes. Players like Dumba, Manson and Trouba fit that mold. A deal that included both Nichuskin and Honka would fir that mold. But, my guess is that Gorton needs a RHD that he'd feel comfortable playing top 4 minutes. If you had to part with Klein in order to get Honka, you'd need a RHD that could play top minutes.

This is why it's been my opinion that, in order to properly upgrade this D, multiple deal will have to be made. You can add a Honka, but, you need another quality RHD.

 

[RangerBoy]

The Rangers gave Staal 6 years and $5.7M. The Rangers trade Duclair and #1 pick for Yandle. Skjei is ready to turn pro. Yandle is traded to FL and signs a huge ass contract. The Rangers give up at least Zuccarello for Shattenkirk and give him a huge ass contract.

 

[TheTakedown]

Interesting tweet from the Stars beat reporter. Note that Honka's name appears nowhere on the list - my guess is because he (and by extension the Stars) doesn't think Honka will be ready to contribute this year.

So there's your rationale for a deal:

Nichushkin STILL isn't signed and Honka won't be ready - also, Nichushkin himself is still developing (only 29 points last year). Meanwhile, Zucc is a prime top-6 winger on a sweetheart deal and the Stars want to compete this year. If they up their bid, they can also have Klein to help out on the right side (important given the desire to compete right now).

Makes total sense for a retooling/rebuilding/whatever Rangers team that already has a bunch of guys (Buchnevich, Vesey, Skjei, McIlrath) who may need the season to grow into their roles. Lop a year off the Girardi & Staal deals serving as placeholders as the kids Skjei, McIlrath (if not moved in another deal), Graves and Honka all go through growing pains in the NHL/or in HFD... See if you can't move Staal at the deadline to a contender... Same with Nash once he's built back up his value... Options with Girardi get easier in the offseason (hopefully after he's had a much better season) when he loses his full NTC and his real money salary is only $4MM per year, providing a free $1.5MM in cap hit to a cap floor team...

I really like this post, and this idea!

 

[Ori]

Maybe move Hank, but we are not in a full rebuild mode so it`ll probably not happen.
And other teams have won the cup with less of a goalie for sure - Penguins last season for instance, a good example.

I don`t understand why Glass is still on the team though with his 1.4 mil $ contract - if we`ve plans to get younger. Besides, he is 32 years old.

 

[offdacrossbar]

unless rick nash is going the other way or is moved for picks and pretty much the same for marc staal, no way we can add shattenkirk. not happening.

there is nothing wrong with adding kevin shattenkirk now if we can extend him to a deal thats reasonable if adding him includes DUMPING RICK NASH and MARC STAAL.

trading for shatty with a new deal works fine but nash and staal gotta be gone.

sure we can add shattenkirk at the deadline after struggling all season without a dman who can play in the o zone, while competing with other teams looking to do the same as a rental. sure we can just sign him over the summer for just money and that costs us no players, and if he really wants to play here hell give us a discount right ? sure he will :snakehead

if we want to win this season, i mean compete and win, you MOVE NASH and ADD SHATTENKIRK and you are closer to winning this season. move staal for whatever and free up a spot for skjei on the left side.

then you tweek the lineup at the deadline and add a proven scorer and you are even closer.

or you can not add EXACTLY what we need in kevin shattenkirk and try to piece something together with honka - who may or may not be ready right now to help.

oh and shattenkirk is a much better 2 way dman than is keith yandle. yandle has always been a defensive liability.

 

[RangerBoy]

 

[QJL]

Buchnevich listed as a Center on traverse city roster?

 

[Irishguy42]

LW: Gettinger, Gropp, Joly, Kovacs, Vesey
C: Buchnevich, Duke*, Fogarty, Morrison, Nieves
RW: Betz*, Chapie, Ronning, Stromwall, Zborosky*
D: Bobyk*, Day, Gilmour, Malatesta*, Ottenbreit*, Andersson, Di Perna*, Zborovskiy
G: Halverson, Raaymakers*

* = Tryouts/Non-organization players, AFAIK