(Official) Around the NHL 8.0

[DCDM]

Would you guys give up one of Ortio/Gillies/MacDonald for Bernier?

Was just thinking about this very question. I would think about trading Ortio because of a few reasons. A) He has the most NHL experience and has looked good during it. B) We would hope that Ortio develops into a Bernier-level player at some point. C) Ortio, while a good player IMO, has probably the lowest upside out of the three goalies in our system.

MacDonald and Gillies would be non-starters though.

EDIT: Just realized it sounds rather contradictory for me to say all that when we would still all be hoping that either MacDonald or Gillies become Bernier-level players. I just think there's a higher chance of them doing it than Ortio (significantly so with regards to Gillies).

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Would you guys give up one of Ortio/Gillies/MacDonald for Bernier?

Yes to Ortio or MacDonald.

Gilles less so.

That being said, I would gladly trade Ortio or MacDonald, Hiller or Ramo and a plus for Bernier.

Only problem is I don't see Toronto doing that unless Bernier has made it clear he plans on leaving during UFA next off season.

 

[Taranis]

I wouldn't give up McDonald or Gillies for Bernier, although if a package was to be made I could see Ortio+

 

[Flames Fanatic]

While MacDonald had a solid season I don't see what puts him on par with Gilles in terms of untouchable?

 

[Dertell]

Would you guys give up one of Ortio/Gillies/MacDonald for Bernier?

Hell no. I'm fine with having a mediocre goaltender, I'll be concerned with having one getting north of 5M$ AAV for several years and at the cost of a promising prospect to boot.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I too like the idea of acquiring Bernier, but I bet the Leafs would want a fair amount in return for him.

I thought that to, but it's not out of the question that the Leafs let him walk as a UFA if he gets awarded over 5 million. At that amount the a Leafs can walk and that might be more than they're willing to pay a starter when they want to tank. This may be a case where you can get a guy for bargain bin pricing if you strike now.

 

[Taranis]

I don't know why the Leafs would let him walk when they have nothing immediate to take the place, unless they think Reimer is going to all of a sudden turn it around.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I don't know why the Leafs would let him walk when they have nothing immediate to take the place, unless they think Reimer is going to all of a sudden turn it around.

Reimer would be a step towards Mathews. Also, losing Bernier would shed cap. I don't think they want to lose him, but I don't think they want him at all for over 5 million. I think this because of how bad they are low balling him. Honestly it's almost insulting.

 

[Taranis]

I agree with you, their offer is insulting all things considered. I think 3.7-4m is more then fair given what other goaltenders have gotten around the league.

Also, the Leafs could Buffalo it up this season and end up with the 4th OA pick.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I agree with you, their offer is insulting all things considered. I think 3.7-4m is more then fair given what other goaltenders have gotten around the league.

Also, the Leafs could Buffalo it up this season and end up with the 4th OA pick.

Totally agree on the amount with you. So let's say they think he's going to get somewhere between 4 - 4.5 in arbitration, and are prepared to walk away at that amount. Well then they would be foolish to not trade him to us for say Hiller (perhaps retained salary) Ortio and a 3rd, at least they get some assets.

I'd quite happy paying Bernier 4 million over 3 years.

 

[Taranis]

Isn't Bernier essentially stuck getting a one year deal now? I'm not really up on club elected arbitration. I believe hes a UFA next year as well so I'd pass if those are the circumstances.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Isn't Bernier essentially stuck getting a one year deal now? I'm not really up on club elected arbitration. I believe hes a UFA next year as well so I'd pass if those are the circumstances.

I would think its the same circumstances as any other RFA going into it. If we trade for him, basically I can't see why we can't sign him to a multi year deal before an agreement is reached.

 

[GAMO1992]

So Bernier is asking for around 5M, and the Leafs are, lowballing, him with under 3M?
Yeah, he needs to go to arb and then walk next year. Bernier is a legit starting goalie.

And for trading for him, the Leafs are going to want a nice package.
2nd, Ortio, and TSpoon is what I'd offer for him, and then we can trade Hiller @ 50% to some team.

 

[Gritty]

So Bernier is asking for around 5M, and the Leafs are, lowballing, him with under 3M?
Yeah, he needs to go to arb and then walk next year. Bernier is a legit starting goalie.

And for trading for him, the Leafs are going to want a nice package.
2nd, Ortio, and TSpoon is what I'd offer for him, and then we can trade Hiller @ 50% to some team.

I don't think he would command that much for two reasons:

1. It's becoming obvious that the relationship is fragile at best or potentially fractured after this arbitration case. Offering him %15 less than his previous deal is a huge slap to the face.

2. The goalie market is near non-existent.

I could see an offer of Ramo/Hiller + Wotherspoon + 3rd being enough. I'd definitely feel a lot more confident with Bernier in net over Ramo or Hiller.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

If we offered Hiller at 50%, then a decent future (ie. Wotherspoon) I bet they bite providing they think Bernier will get over 4 million.

Hiller at 50% saves them cap and there's no long term commitment for them. Maybe throw in a 3rd (just not a 4th, that's our lotto round).

 

[Anglesmith]

Perhaps getting a good contract requires a skill-testing question. Like, say, "who is Nelson Mandela?"

 

[GAMO1992]

I think it'd take a liiiitle bit more to pry Bernier out of Toronto than Hiller @50% and a 3rd.
I think that Ortio + TSpoon and a 2nd/3rd is a very fair offer and I think it'd be enough to get them to pull the trigger, and I'd be okay with that deal as well.

 

[Pirate King Luffy]

Perhaps getting a good contract requires a skill-testing question. Like, say, "who is Nelson Mandela?"

One of the greatest hockey players of all time.

 

[Bouma Fett*]

Leafs can't walk away from Bernier cause its club elected arbitration I believe.

 

[Calculon]

Ortio's trade value is minimal. If a team wants him in the NHL, they can simply claim him off of waivers. If they want him in the AHL, then they'll wait until the Flames take the risk of exposing Ortio to waivers, but his value would still be low.

And it's arbitration and a brand new management group. Bernier did nothing last year to warrant a long term extension.

 

[Dertell]

I think that Ortio + TSpoon and a 2nd/3rd is a very fair offer

I'm sure the leafs would say the same.

Bernier did nothing last year to warrant a long term extension.

this

 

[Anglesmith]

Ortio's trade value is minimal. If a team wants him in the NHL, they can simply claim him off of waivers. If they want him in the AHL, then they'll wait until the Flames take the risk of exposing Ortio to waivers, but his value would still be low.

And it's arbitration and a brand new management group. Bernier did nothing last year to warrant a long term extension.

That's not exactly true. If a team actually wants him as a target for the NHL, then they need to make sure no other team can get him first.

 

[Unlimited Chequing]

That's not exactly true. If a team actually wants him as a target for the NHL, then they need to make sure no other team can get him first.

Yeah it's not first come first served. If more than one team tries to grab him, lowest one in the rankings gets him.

Last thing we want is him in Edmonton

 

[Taranis]

 

[1989]

When it comes to rival teams, I am ALL ABOUT players getting paid. Show me the money, makin' it rain, etc.


Seriously though, from all the discussion on the main boards about Sutter, he should be a
3.5m AAV player at best, especially with term like 5 years. He honestly sounds like Colborne but with less tenacity and more finish. It'll be interesting to see if it's Horvat or Sutter in the second line role come October.