Speculation: Nylander Discussion - Part IV

[shortfuze]

I agree, he is getting lowballed.
It easy to say to the players to take a paycut, but did Shanahan take paycuts when he enterd his prime?
Or does Dubas and and Shanny taking paycuts now, so they can invest more in scouts? Their drafting has not been as good as people claim they do,
I remember all those posts after the 2015 years draft.....

How do you know if Shanahan has never taken a pay cut or if he didn’t agree to take a little less?

 

[Stuzchuk]

why would Nylander be worth 8M? lmao

hes an RFA, hes worth around 6-6.5M on a non bridge deal

you have missed the Lebrun/Dreger segment apparently

 

[Lunatik]

Oh my bad...youre being selective about stats to cover your salt.... I misunderstood that and thought you would assess a player on his whole career... My bad. You got this bro.

Using most recent seasons to determine a players value as a free agent is being selective now? Well shit, in that case, Joe Thornton is one of the best playmakers of all time, he should get at least 10 million too, right? Or does this whole career narrative only fit for Leafs players? I hate to break it to you. but teams aren't going to look at a players entire career to determine the value of their contract.

 

[The Burdened]

Yzerman is a GOAT negotiator + the whole no state tax thing is a huge bonus.

Toronto entrusted a kid with little experience to re-sign their core. We will see just how that works out for them.

He & Shanny know that Nylander is the player they have to get for cheaper. If they can't get him for bellow 7, then they will have a tough time getting Marner for below 9 (especially if he breaks 80 this year) & Matthews below 12.

 

[Hunter368]

He's not 7.

Seven is more than Pasternak.

I'm not saying I would offer him 7.....I'm saying even during a drawn out negotiations I would never go over 7. During negotiations at times both sides have to give and suffer a bit. If your asking me what I think he's worth as a fair number to both sides.....its 6.5 million.

 

[Contenderorpretender]

I think he'll end up with a short bridge like 1-2 years @ 6.5 or something, then either sign him if he proves he can be better or trade for nice pieces

If he gets a bridge deal, he much more likely to get 4mil than 6mil. 6.5mil is long term money

 

[Brock Radunske]

Bad news guys. According to the other Nylander thread, his value might have fallen to zero or even negative value.
Nice one, Dubas...

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

No.

They've said repeatedly they aren't going to trade him and there is no reason to believe he will be now.

He would still cost a massive overpay.

The problem is this holdout has been very public, Toronto doesn't hold a bunch of negotiating power for trades. You aren't going to get an overpay at this point, needless to say a massive overpay. Im not saying he'll go dime for dollars either. Toronto needs to pay him. Toronto's "we aren't going to trade him" stance is their only attempt at controlling his trade value. If they don't want to trade him his value is higher than if they want to move him.

 

[ER89]

Silly is to come up again with a Tuch proposal for a salty marshmellow

Tuch has less value than a signed nylander stick.

 

[Brock Radunske]

So after you just buried him by calling him a soft 60 point winger who doesn’t show up in the playoffs, do you think teams will line up to trade assets for him plus give him 8 million a year? Great selling features.

OP accomplished their goal (bold text) with no intention of taking it any further

 

[varano]

Using most recent seasons to determine a players value as a free agent is being selective now? Well ****, in that case, Joe Thornton is one of the best playmakers of all time, he should get at least 10 million too, right? Or does this whole career narrative only fit for Leafs players? I hate to break it to you. but teams aren't going to look at a players entire career to determine the value of their contract.

You're comparing a player who is 11 years older than tavares.... Well done bud... the shovel is over there next to the salt.

 

[bernmeister]

4 ?s:
what is he worth in a vacuum?
what is he worth to TOR?
what is he worth to a suitor?
is that last one worth for Leafs to trade him?

Short term, Leafs can status quo/ignore.
The Leafs have to make space for Matthews etc and have to either move Nyl or Kadri or a combo of other guys. So status quo is temp.

They want a Dumba, won't get him. Supply and demand, few RDs.
NY has small surplus of LD, could see something around Skeji, +s on both sides, which would be safe and instant return as opposed to picks.

It's all conjecture now until the clock forces somebody get off the pot.

 

[shortfuze]

OP accomplished their goal (bold text) with no intention of taking it any further

Ya that sounds about right

 

[shortfuze]

Agree. Holding onto these kids may be much harder then what the Leafs thought a year ago. The Traverse signing may come back and haunt them. The Leafs have to sign them but the cost could seriously hurt the team going forward. Better win the SC now or their SC window may close as fast has it just open.

The Tavares signing will not hurt them in anyway. They will make it work with or without Nylander

 

[ToneDog]

Same trade value as before... 60pt young winger. Nothing has changed.

Don't know why Leaf fans keep mention Draisaitl and his contract in various threads. Nylander is not as good and doesn't deserve the same money. It's a joke to say put Nylander next to McDavid and he'll score 90pts. Um, he plays with Matthews?

Leaf fans are saying this because Dreger said that Willie is asking Draisaitl money.

 

[BruinsBtn]

How do you know if Shanahan has never taken a pay cut or if he didn’t agree to take a little less?

Only he knows but we do know that he signed an offersheet.

 

[King In The North]

Nope. It will cost any team a fortune to get Nylander.

 

[Brock Radunske]

How do you see anything with your head buried so deep in the sand? The Leafs just overpaid Tavares (yeah yeah I know someone supposedly offer him more money, but that doesn't mean it wasn't an overpay), now they are in the media begging a kid to take more than he's worth because Shanahan claims the Wings players did it (hint: they didn't). Nylander could easily get 4-5 million per year to play in the KHL and pay much less in taxes, so he wouldn't lose anywhere close to the $10 million you claim, he probably wouldn't even lose half of that.

I'm going to ignore the stacked team nonsense, it's pretty clear you aren't what we in the real world would call a reasonable fan.

You are more concerned with all of this than any of the Leafs fans.
I'd take care your own house, first. It needs some major upgrades.

 

[FrozenJagrt]

Yzerman is a GOAT negotiator + the whole no state tax thing is a huge bonus.

Toronto entrusted a kid with little experience to re-sign their core. We will see just how that works out for them.

He & Shanny know that Nylander is the player they have to get for cheaper. If they can't get him for bellow 7, then they will have a tough time getting Marner for below 9 (especially if he breaks 80 this year) & Matthews below 12.

How much experience did Yzerman have versus Dubas?

 

[The Burdened]

How much experience did Yzerman have versus Dubas?

Yzerman had like 5-years working as an NHL GM before he really had to sign his core.

iirc Yzerman signed some stinkers of contracts early on like Callahan, Carle, Filppula however he learned from mistakes.

Dubas has been thrown into the figurative fire + is under the biggest microscope in hockey.

 

[Jimclar]

Shanahan shouldn't have gone public with the negotiations. But there is no proof or reason for the Leafs not to offer a fair contract to Willy. It's really hard to logically think he worth more than 7m, maybe even 6.5m.
Nylander with his RFA leverage, or lack of it seems destined not to win the salary/term battle with the Leafs this year. If he wants to play on the NHL this year, it will much closer on the Leafs terms, not his.

 

[Pavlikovsky]

NYI, COL, NJ, CAR could realistically offer sheet Nylander for 7mil to 8 mil for 5 years and it would only cost a 1st, 2nd, 3rd which i think is worth it, because the Leafs cant reply with an offer sheet of their own for the next 8 or so years with Matthews and Marner up for contracts next year. Or they could take the best case scenario and trade Nylander with an Extension in place to Carolina for 1 of their RHD and shore up their biggest need.

 

[Pavlikovsky]

Nope. It will cost any team a fortune to get Nylander.

Technically it could only cost as little as 1st + 2nd + 3rd for Nylander the hinge on it tho is he might not live up to the contract.

 

[varano]

Yzerman had like 5-years working as an NHL GM before he really had to sign his core.

iirc Yzerman signed some stinkers of contracts early on like Callahan, Carle, Filppula however he learned from mistakes.

Dubas has been thrown into the figurative fire + is under the biggest microscope in hockey.

Dubas had the chance to learn for three years under Lou, and had the chance to soak up info from Hunter and Shanahan too.... Dubas was also the GM of the Marlies. Its time to let the training wheels off.

 

[Jimclar]

Yzerman had like 5-years working as an NHL GM before he really had to sign his core.

iirc Yzerman signed some stinkers of contracts early on like Callahan, Carle, Filppula however he learned from mistakes.

Dubas has been thrown into the figurative fire + is under the biggest microscope in hockey.

Yzerman's Tampa team have finished out of the playoff three of seven years with Tampa. And that included having a # 1 overall on the team when he arrived and drafting Hedman in the first year. Somehow Yzerman has been made out to be a Sam Pollock in the eyes of so many. Dubas wouldn't last seven years as a Leaf GM if he had Yzerman's record.