Speculation: Nylander Discussion - Part IV

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

You wish

 

[steveat]

I think he'll end up with a short bridge like 1-2 years @ 6.5 or something, then either sign him if he proves he can be better or trade for nice pieces

 

[Lunatik]

Or as an RFA he compromises and makes a deal or he sits out and loses money not to mention whatever development he would have had he been playing instead of sitting out. That's his choice. No team is obligated to overpay a player. Some do, like Edmonton did with Draisatdl, but most don't. As has been noted, if Nylander gets overpaid, then Marner will expect to be overpaid, and then Matthews will expect to be overpaid.

Any team wants to win the cup, they can't overpay players vs. their actual value not potential value. You want your team to overpay players, fine, but don't expect them to be any better than mediocre when all is said and done, as currently teams like Detroit, Edmonton and Montreal clearly demonstrate.

Both sides need to compromise, not just the player. Nylander wouldn't just sit out, he can go play in Europe for 2 seasons and IIRC he can become a UFA. Another thing he could do is f*** the Leafs and sign a 2 year offer sheet that doesn't give the compensation he's worth, where year 2 has a jacked up AAV forcing the Leafs to either lose him for less than he's worth, or match and deal and in two years have to choose to not qualify him at the end of the contract, or give him a large QO that he could accept. So. let's not pretend like he has no chips to play.

I'm willing to guess that most Leafs fans would be unhappy with Nylander being moved for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd if it were from a playoff team. Just imagine him signing an offer sheet with Nashville for 2 years, 7.5 AAV (year 1 being 6 million and year 2 being 9 million).

 

[Lunatik]

What would your team offer the Leafs at this point for a soft 60 point winger who doesn’t show up in the playoffs and wants 8 million dollars and maybe more? Does Nylander at 8x8 have negative value?

I personally think he could realistically be worth 8 million dollars or even more but what if he doesn’t take another step? It might become one of the worst contracts in the league.

Nope. Because we don't know all the details. We always hear about asks being high, then the player agrees to something more realistic. So really the asks we hear mean very little as they are either a starting point or simply not true. Hell when Gaudreau signed, I think it was just a week or two before he inked his deal there were rumors he wanted 9 million or something.

 

[Boutette]

Both sides need to compromise, not just the player. Nylander wouldn't just sit out, he can go play in Europe for 2 seasons and IIRC he can become a UFA. Another thing he could do is **** the Leafs and sign a 2 year offer sheet that doesn't give the compensation he's worth, where year 2 has a jacked up AAV forcing the Leafs to either lose him for less than he's worth, or match and deal and in two years have to choose to not qualify him at the end of the contract, or give him a large QO that he could accept. So. let's not pretend like he has no chips to play.

Maybe he can play in Europe. And that will cost him well over $10 million if he does that over the next couple years, talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. There's also hardly any teams left that can even make an offer sheet due to cap and draft pick options, and that includes several teams likely in line for Hughes this year with the draft picks they'd have to give up. Its in Nylander's best interest to accept a reasonable offer, put in his time on Toronto's stacked team and cash in like Tavares did when he hits UFA status, which is what reasonable players do, not the exceptionally and stupidly greedy ones do.

 

[gwh]

Maybe he can play in Europe. And that will cost him well over $10 million if he does that over the next couple years, talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. There's also hardly any teams left that can even make an offer sheet due to cap and draft pick options, and that includes several teams likely in line for Hughes this year with the draft picks they'd have to give up. Its in Nylander's best interest to accept a reasonable offer, put in his time on Toronto's stacked team and cash in like Tavares did when he hits UFA status, which is what reasonable players do, not the exceptionally and stupidly greedy ones do.

After escrow and tax? More like 5mil in 2 years.

However, "trade me for bad faith in negotiations" arrives in about 3 weeks.

 

[howkie]

No one knows what he's asking for or what the teams offering .

The only thing to come out from either side is Shanny/Dubas/Babs frequently saying they want the 3 kids to discounts .

Greater chance he's getting low balled than he's asking for to much .

I agree, he is getting lowballed.
It easy to say to the players to take a paycut, but did Shanahan take paycuts when he enterd his prime?
Or does Dubas and and Shanny taking paycuts now, so they can invest more in scouts? Their drafting has not been as good as people claim they do,
I remember all those posts after the 2015 years draft.....

 

[Tripod]

No one knows what he's asking for or what the teams offering .

The only thing to come out from either side is Shanny/Dubas/Babs frequently saying they want the 3 kids to discounts .

Greater chance he's getting low balled than he's asking for to much .

Yeah....the same Shanahan who had high contract demands at the same age Nylander is and signed an offer sheet from another team because of it.

He is a hypocrite.

 

[Spirit of 67]

No.

They've said repeatedly they aren't going to trade him and there is no reason to believe he will be now.

He would still cost a massive overpay.

 

[TT1]

why would Nylander be worth 8M? lmao

hes an RFA, hes worth around 6-6.5M on a non bridge deal

 

[Todd Parchment]

He should go to Arizona so he can meet up with Auston in a few years.

 

[Iceman]

What would your team offer the Leafs at this point for a soft 60 point winger who doesn’t show up in the playoffs and wants 8 million dollars and maybe more? Does Nylander at 8x8 have negative value?

I personally think he could realistically be worth 8 million dollars or even more but what if he doesn’t take another step? It might become one of the worst contracts in the league.

Matthews doesn’t show up either.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I wouldn't pay him more than 6 but Toronto has said they will keep everybody.

 

[Divine]

Both sides need to compromise, not just the player. Nylander wouldn't just sit out, he can go play in Europe for 2 seasons and IIRC he can become a UFA. Another thing he could do is **** the Leafs and sign a 2 year offer sheet that doesn't give the compensation he's worth, where year 2 has a jacked up AAV forcing the Leafs to either lose him for less than he's worth, or match and deal and in two years have to choose to not qualify him at the end of the contract, or give him a large QO that he could accept. So. let's not pretend like he has no chips to play.

I'm willing to guess that most Leafs fans would be unhappy with Nylander being moved for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd if it were from a playoff team. Just imagine him signing an offer sheet with Nashville for 2 years, 7.5 AAV (year 1 being 6 million and year 2 being 9 million).

No, Nylander has no leverage. He can't become an RFA before 27 if he doesn't play in the NHL. He would have to play in Europe for 5 years to become an RFA. Giving up 5 years of NHL salary to become an UFA (that would have happened even if he had played in the NHL) doesn't make any sense for him. He's better off just signing for 6 here and becoming an UFA. The only leverage an RFA in Nylander's situation has is offer sheets, and if no one is making them, the team has literally all the power. It's either sign or miss a year, get the same contract next year, and become an UFA a year later. If there's a 6 year contract on the table, why would you go play in Europe for 5 years instead of making (6 X 6) 30M in the NHL and then becoming a UFA?

 

[Tatar Shots]

I can’t imagine being a holdout in the middle of the season is good for his value. But still, the Leafs should not be under much pressure to actually pull the trigger on a trade.

From Detroit, I guess an offer could look like Mantha + Hronek for Nylander. Leafs would get a similar age replacement RW and an NHL ready RHD.

 

[airbus220]

a soft 60 point winger who doesn’t show up in the playoffs

what if he doesn’t take another step? It might become one of the worst contracts in the league.

Nylander already didn't take another step last season.

Goalie pads are reduced and forwards shoot more goals and suddenly they ask for the moon.
If it's easier now to shoot goals contract demands of agents need to be reduced too.

6M for Nylander lol ... the max he should get is twice as much as Hyman and then I still wouldn't want him.

 

[Lunatik]

Maybe he can play in Europe. And that will cost him well over $10 million if he does that over the next couple years, talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. There's also hardly any teams left that can even make an offer sheet due to cap and draft pick options, and that includes several teams likely in line for Hughes this year with the draft picks they'd have to give up. Its in Nylander's best interest to accept a reasonable offer, put in his time on Toronto's stacked team and cash in like Tavares did when he hits UFA status, which is what reasonable players do, not the exceptionally and stupidly greedy ones do.

How do you see anything with your head buried so deep in the sand? The Leafs just overpaid Tavares (yeah yeah I know someone supposedly offer him more money, but that doesn't mean it wasn't an overpay), now they are in the media begging a kid to take more than he's worth because Shanahan claims the Wings players did it (hint: they didn't). Nylander could easily get 4-5 million per year to play in the KHL and pay much less in taxes, so he wouldn't lose anywhere close to the $10 million you claim, he probably wouldn't even lose half of that.

I'm going to ignore the stacked team nonsense, it's pretty clear you aren't what we in the real world would call a reasonable fan.

 

[Lunatik]

After escrow and tax? More like 5mil in 2 years.

However, "trade me for bad faith in negotiations" arrives in about 3 weeks.

And it will be hilarious. And even funnier when Matthews and Marner refuse to take discounts too.

 

[airbus220]

Your posts in this thread are not very good. Playoffs is a small sample size. Pretty silly to compare 20 to 6 games as well. And then to mention tuch is 6"4 as if that is something great. Cool he is tall, so is yao ming?

Silly is to come up again with a Tuch proposal for a salty marshmellow

 

[Lunatik]

No, Nylander has no leverage. He can't become an RFA before 27 if he doesn't play in the NHL. He would have to play in Europe for 5 years to become an RFA. Giving up 5 years of NHL salary to become an UFA (that would have happened even if he had played in the NHL) doesn't make any sense for him. He's better off just signing for 6 here and becoming an UFA. The only leverage an RFA in Nylander's situation has is offer sheets, and if no one is making them, the team has literally all the power. It's either sign or miss a year, get the same contract next year, and become an UFA a year later. If there's a 6 year contract on the table, why would you go play in Europe for 5 years instead of making (6 X 6) 30M in the NHL and then becoming a UFA?

I'm pretty sure there is now a provision in the CBA where if a player received a QO and goes unsigned for 2 years, they become a UFA.

Even if there isn't he could go to the KHL and make 5+ million this year and sign an offersheet next summer when the Leafs won't be in a position to match.

 

[boredmale]

I'm pretty sure there is now a provision in the CBA where if a player received a QO and goes unsigned for 2 years, they become a UFA.

I never heard of that, say Nylander went to the KHL, he would have to wait till he was 27 to be a UFA

 

[flamesforcup]

No.

They've said repeatedly they aren't going to trade him and there is no reason to believe he will be now.

He would still cost a massive overpay.

Every team says that until they actually trade the player. What the team says means nothing there obviously not gonna come out and say "we are considering trading him" are they?
And there is a reason to believe he could be traded since he is sitting out without a contract halfway around the world

 

[varano]

How do you see anything with your head buried so deep in the sand? The Leafs just overpaid Tavares (yeah yeah I know someone supposedly offer him more money, but that doesn't mean it wasn't an overpay), now they are in the media begging a kid to take more than he's worth because Shanahan claims the Wings players did it (hint: they didn't). Nylander could easily get 4-5 million per year to play in the KHL and pay much less in taxes, so he wouldn't lose anywhere close to the $10 million you claim, he probably wouldn't even lose half of that.

I'm going to ignore the stacked team nonsense, it's pretty clear you aren't what we in the real world would call a reasonable fan.

Comparing the KHL to the NHL means YOU have your head buried in the sand.

If you want to win in hockeys best league, you go to the NHL. If you can't hack the NHL, you go to the KHL... OR if you're a retiring Russian you go to the KHL.

Coming from a team that pays Sean Monahan 6.3 million, I would expect you to understand what RFA means but you can't seem to grasp that. If you think that that the team wasn't excited about the leafs brass going out and getting a star player for what his market value was, then you're nuts.

Can you also explain HOW the leafs overpaid vs. What his original team offered????

 

[Kevs Security]

If anything, his value has risen because of this. GM's like guys who know their worth. Imagine walking in to a job interview and when asked about your desired salary, you'd say "umm... five dollars an hour sounds about right". They wouldn't hire you. You know why? Because you underestimate yourself, pal. Nylander wants that 8 million, because he knows he's just that good. He wont let you down. He's worth every penny, and will prove it. I'd give my heart(Casey Cizikas) and soul(Matt Martin) for this guy.

 

[Hunter368]

I doubt any team would want Nylander at the Rumored 8-8.5 million he's asking for.....so yeh if true that would cripple any trade value. He's worth about 6.5+ million over 7 years. Sounds like the Leafs are low balling him so he's refusing to budge off the 8-8.5 million number. Smells like a bridge coming, because the gap is too large between him and the Leafs. Bridge seems like the most reasonable outcome and most fair when the team is low balling and the player is way high.