Speculation: Nylander Discussion - Part IV

[BAM]

As is the leafs top 5 would come in at around 52% as well...assuming 82.5 mil

The problem is that top 4/5 would all be forwards. It's not spread out.

Considering the fact that their 1D is signed for less than 5 million long term that's not necessarily all that bad. Factor in Liljegren-Sandin coming up in as soon as a year and they'll have some cheap, high end options to replace the likes of Gardiner, Marleau, etc.

 

[Faltorvo]

He wasn't talking about salary, he was talking average salary which is cap. If we go by salary Tavares makes 15.25 this season. He meant cap.

yes he was, you are just wrong on that front, sorry

 

[HarrisonFord]

Why should Nylander do that? He wants to sign a long-term contract now.

Because he’s not worth it and he has no leverage

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Considering the fact that their 1D is signed for less than 5 million long term that's not necessarily all that bad. Factor in Liljegren-Sandin coming up in as soon as a year and they'll have some cheap, high end options to replace the likes of Gardiner, Marleau, etc.

Marleau is still signed next season though. 6.25 mil.

Look I'm sure leafs have options and guys coming up but I don't consider Zaitsev a top pairing guy. I think he's a #3 so I don't think leafs should be looking at just depth talent on D or rookies who will eventually emerge as good players at NHL level.

The bad thing is leafs are a little off balanced in their salary expenditure.

The good thing is leafs have a shitload of trading chips to change that.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

yes he was, you are just wrong on that front, sorry

Actually no, you're wrong, sorry.

He said Tavares is 2nd highest paid.

I think he means average salary, you think he means salary:

By Salary:

Browse - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Highest paid.

By Cap:

Browse - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Second highest paid.

So yeah...it's clear what he meant...

 

[Number 57]

Actually I ran the numbers quickly and it comes out to under the projected $82M cap, although pretty tight. And it only includes one upgrade, on defense. BTW this is for 2020 and beyond.

Hyman (2.2) - Tavares (11) - Marner (8)
Johnson (1.5) - Matthews (11) - Nylander (7)
Kapanen (2) - Kadri (4.5) - Brown (2)
Jooris (0.7) - Gauthier (0.7) - Grundstrom (1)

Rielly (5.0) - Zaitsev (4.5)
Dermott (2.5) - UFA (5)
Gardiner (4.5) - Ozhiganov (1.0)

Andersen (5.0) - Sparks (1.0)

TOTAL: 80.1

It's not too bad, but there's very little room to navigate. As I said, Kadri and Zaitsev are prime candidates for trades, as are Hyman and Brown.

 

[BAM]

Marleau is still signed next season though. 6.25 mil.

Look I'm sure leafs have options and guys coming up but I don't consider Zaitsev a top pairing guy. I think he's a #3 so I don't think leafs should be looking at just depth talent on D or rookies who will eventually emerge as good players at NHL level.

The bad thing is leafs are a little off balanced in their salary expenditure.

The good thing is leafs have a ****load of trading chips to change that.

I was talking about after that, like after all the big contracts the Leafs pipeline is well suited to replace the veterans with cheap elc talent like SDA, Grundstrom, Bracco, Liljegren, Sandin.

I agree, nobody calls Zaitsev a top pairing guy however, he's a good middle pairing guy right now. The Leafs have a 1D in Rielly, 3D in Gardiner, a 4 in Zaitsev and a potential top 4 guy in Dermott. Hainsey at this point is better served as a bottom pairing D-man that gets a lot of pk time.

 

[DanM]

Marleau is still signed next season though. 6.25 mil.

Look I'm sure leafs have options and guys coming up but I don't consider Zaitsev a top pairing guy. I think he's a #3 so I don't think leafs should be looking at just depth talent on D or rookies who will eventually emerge as good players at NHL level.

The bad thing is leafs are a little off balanced in their salary expenditure.

The good thing is leafs have a ****load of trading chips to change that.

Very fair analysis.

I am excited to see Lilly and Sandin when they are ready, but it maybe a year or two.

 

[hyduK]

Actually I ran the number quickly and comes out to under the projected $82M cap, although pretty tight. And it only includes one upgrade, on defense.

Hyman (2.2) - Tavares (11) - Marner (8)
Johnson (1.5) - Matthews (11) - Nylander (7)
Kapanen (2) - Kadri (4.5) - Brown (2)
Jooris (0.7) - Gauthier (0.7) - Grundstrom (1)

Rielly (5.0) - Zaitsev (4.5)
Dermott (2.5) - UFA (5)
Gardiner (4.5) - Ozhiganov (1.0)

Andersen (5.0) - Sparks (1.0)

TOTAL: 80.1

It's not too bad, but there's very little room to navigate. As I said, Kadri and Zaitsev are prime candidates for trades, as are Hyman and Brown.

Not terrible.

Could easily see Matthews or Marner getting .5-1m more than you're projecting though.

 

[Skolman]

Considering the fact that their 1D is signed for less than 5 million long term that's not necessarily all that bad. Factor in Liljegren-Sandin coming up in as soon as a year and they'll have some cheap, high end options to replace the likes of Gardiner, Marleau, etc.

Didn't Rielly sign for 5 mil per?

You honestly don't believe those 2 will come into the league in the next year or two and be high end players, do you?

 

[Number 57]

Not terrible.

Could easily see Matthews or Marner getting .5-1m more than you're projecting though.

If Sandin/Liljegren can come in on a cheap contract they'd save a lot by moving Gardiner, Zaitsev or not signing that UFA.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

I'm guessing you're one of those unobjective leaf haters I was referring to.

I'm not suggested thaaaaaat we did - I'm suggesting thaaat we will.

[mod]

If you're going to account for unobjective leaf haters you should account for unobjective leaf homers as well. Saying that you will always dodge the bullet means you have zero objectivity.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

I was talking about after that, like after all the big contracts the Leafs pipeline is well suited to replace the veterans with cheap elc talent like SDA, Grundstrom, Bracco, Liljegren, Sandin.

I agree, nobody calls Zaitsev a top pairing guy however, he's a good middle pairing guy right now. The Leafs have a 1D in Rielly, 3D in Gardiner, a 4 in Zaitsev and a potential top 4 guy in Dermott. Hainsey at this point is better served as a bottom pairing D-man that gets a lot of pk time.

Well that is the problem. These guys need to be signed for this season/next season as their contracts are closing out or they're waiting(Nylander) so Marleau needs to be traded or fit next season and even guys coming up need to replace Gardiner who is UFA at end of this season. On D you'll have a #1 Rielly and a #3-4 in Zaitsev with not much money to get new guys. i'm sure young guys can fill in but that won't be a peak year for the leafs if they're hoping these guys fill in for actually top 4 Ds.

 

[Whileee]

yes he was, you are just wrong on that front, sorry

I couldn't care less about actual salaries year-to-year, because that fluctuates. It's all about AAV / cap hit. Tavares is 2nd highest in the NHL.

You implied that he took a substantial "haircut" on the deal financially to play for the Leafs. I pointed out that from a franchise perspective, the Leafs don't have him on a deal that represents tremendous value. If anything, the cap hit is on the high side in relation performance.

Though I don't care much about Tavares' financial situation, I'm sure he considered the financial advantages of playing in Toronto vs. other less avid hockey markets, just like Hedman likely considered the tax situation in Florida.

 

[Rubi]

Nylander on Maple Leafs negotiations: 'I have to take care of myself' - Sportsnet.ca

Nylander acknowledged to Aftonbladet that he’s currently sacrificing a lot of pay by sitting out but added: "In the end I have to take care of myself and do what I and my agent thinks is right. Especially if it’s about several years to come. I need to think long term. It’s my own future it’s about."

 

[The Burdened]

Remember how over the years Chicago had to sell off Byfuglien, Ladd, Versteeg, Niemi, Campbell, Teravainen, Kopecky, Saad, Hjalmarsson, Brouwer etc etc because they had all their high end player locked into huge contracts and the could not afford depth?
Leaf fans should be thinking along those lines.

It also should have been much worse for Chicago if not for that awesome Duncan Keith deal and getting him for nearly a 40% discount.

 

[Duke Silver]

As is the leafs top 5 would come in at around 52% as well...assuming 82.5 mil

The problem is that top 4/5 would all be forwards. It's not spread out.

Washington: top 4 = 3F+1G, top 5 = 4F-1G
Pittsburgh: top 4 = 3F-1D, top 5 = 3F-1D-1G

I don't think it's as big a deal as you think it is. We're getting fantastic value out of the Rielly and Kadri contracts, which helps.

 

[BAM]

Didn't Rielly sign for 5 mil per?

You honestly don't believe those 2 will come into the league in the next year or two and be high end players, do you?

Rielly signed for 5 correct, I got his contract mixed up with Kadri's.

And no I don't think they'll be stars next year but they're on track to be a much better bottom pairing than what we currently have and in the case of Liljegren, will help letting Gardiner go much easier. I can see Liljegren becoming a more refined version of Gardiner without the mistakes and Sandin is a terrific prospect who has great skating ability and IQ, almost like a Dermott clone.

They were great all pre-season much like Bouchard who Oilers fans already have as their 1D going forward lmao

Next year if Gardiner is let go.

Rielly - Hainsey
Zaitsev- Dermott
Liljegren-Sandin

I like the puck-possession/movement far more with that group that what we have now. With the exception of Hainsey, all are very mobile defensemen that have great skating ability and IQ, the modern NHL d-corps.

 

[HOPE]

This part is not true. He took less money to play here.

he was a UFA, he took less to play there, but he didn't do any discount.

discount = take less than you're actual value.

Willy is RFA, but he sure could get 8M if he was UFA.

let's get real 11M is no discount. Tavares didn't take a paycut to "win"
Now the managament are asking younger players to take longterm paycut simply because "HEY WE MADE YOU A GIFT BY SIGNING TAVARES"
it's a business. whoever is mad at nylander for wanting to get paid is dumb, he put up 61pts as a 20year old and 21 year old. He still has room to improve.

 

[member 157595]

Remember how over the years Chicago had to sell off Byfuglien, Ladd, Versteeg, Niemi, Campbell, Teravainen, Kopecky, Saad, Hjalmarsson, Brouwer etc etc because they had all their high end player locked into huge contracts and the could not afford depth?
Leaf fans should be thinking along those lines.

It also should have been much worse for Chicago if not for that awesome Duncan Keith deal and getting him for nearly a 40% discount.

If we could get something worthwhile for Nylander I'd consider moving him.

I'm not interested in Hall for Larsson Part 2: The Shittening.

 

[Duke Silver]

Well the Marleau contract is already hindering your cap for next season and that's the FIRST year of your big-4 getting big money. There's a reason why Dubas is playing hard ball with Willy right now. He simply cannot afford to overpay. The next 8-10 years will be hard to manage for the Leafs. It's just the reality of having a lot of great players.

Kadri and Zaitsev will likely be traded in the next year or two out of necessity.

Marleau will be off the cap in 20-21 and everything will be peachy. It's just 19-20 that's going to be difficult. But they'll find a way, and if they have to lose a non-core piece it's not a big deal. The Blackhawks were fine after their first cup.

Thanks for your concern.

 

[Skolman]

Rielly signed for 5 correct, I got his contract mixed up with Kadri's.

And no I don't think they'll be stars next year but they're on track to be a much better bottom pairing than what we currently have and in the case of Liljegren, will help letting Gardiner go much easier. I can see Liljegren becoming a more refined version of Gardiner without the mistakes and Sandin is a terrific prospect who has great skating ability and IQ, almost like a Dermott clone.

They were great all pre-season much like Bouchard who Oilers fans already have as their 1D going forward lmao

Next year if Gardiner is let go.

Rielly - Hainsey
Zaitsev- Dermott
Liljegren-Sandin

I like the puck-possession/movement far more with that group that what we have now. With the exception of Hainsey, all are very mobile defensemen that have great skating ability and IQ, the modern NHL d-corps.

You literally can't have a discussion without taking a shot at the Oilers, eh? No Oiler fan has Bouchard pencilled in as our #1 D-man. Grow up.

 

[Faltorvo]

I couldn't care less about actual salaries year-to-year, because that fluctuates. It's all about AAV / cap hit. Tavares is 2nd highest in the NHL.

You implied that he took a substantial "haircut" on the deal financially to play for the Leafs. I pointed out that from a franchise perspective, the Leafs don't have him on a deal that represents tremendous value. If anything, the cap hit is on the high side in relation performance.

Though I don't care much about Tavares' financial situation, I'm sure he considered the financial advantages of playing in Toronto vs. other less avid hockey markets, just like Hedman likely considered the tax situation in Florida.

well sorry that you don't think 2m per less then SJ is substantial , i do

and walking away from a guarantied extra 11m from NYI says alot.

 

[strictlyrandy]

If the Leafs value Nylander so little, they should move on from him. Avs will offer Spencer Martin for that AHL goalie spot and Andrighetto as a roster player. No need to thank us. We're doing you a favor, I promise.

 

[hyduK]

well sorry that you don't think 2m per less then SJ is substantial , i do

and walking away from a guarantied extra 11m from NYI says alot.

No one even knows if that 13m contract was real.