Nylander contract discussion - New Poll

[BraveCanadian]

That's been shown to be false. Between home and away matchups, coaching strategies (match top lines or go with shutdown) icings, and in-play line changes, that isn't anywhere near as clear-cut as some believe. It's also been shown that quality of linemates is more relevant than quality of opposition.

Yeah, I don't buy it. The stats nerds always have it figured out right up until they don't again.

These are Marners playoff numbers. Maybe if he didn't fade away when the chips are down, we wouldn't need "just 1 depth player to rise to the occasion".

Games 1-4 - 1.19 PPG
Games 5-7 - 0.47 PPG

To be clear, it's not just Marner's fault. He's certainly not the only choker on the team, he's just the biggest one.

It's not about "punishing" anyone, that's nothing more than a pointless straw man argument. Most of us don't care how many "stars" we have, we just want to see a team that wins in the playoffs.

Shocker that a team with players who have lost the vast majority of their playoff series have poor numbers in later games..

 

[Gary Nylund]

What are you talking about? I hate that they can't get it done. I wouldn't have neen upset if they traded anyone outside of maybe Matthews.

I carry a different point of view because of what I do.

What do you mean?

 

[WTFMAN99]

I can't believe this guy bid himself up to the tune of 11.5M x 8 years

It's laughable.

 

[HellasLEAF]

35.

And funnily enough his dad had two of his best career seasons at 34 and 35

Ya 8 is a good thing (not understanding the talk there to the contrary). And Willie doesn't look to be a guy that will regress much physically.. Pro.

 

[Da Mash]

initially it will look bad and in end part of his contract it will look bad.

it is all bad.

We have no idea what the cap will be like in 4 yrs

It’s funny….we bash the previous GM for contracts and now we have another GM giving out what is the going rate.

Go figure…agents know what their clients take home pay will be compared to other players.

Careers can be short so I have no issue with players getting paid. The cap isn’t their problem. That’s the GM job

 

[Gary Nylund]

Shocker that a team with players who have lost the vast majority of their playoff series have poor numbers in later games..

I think you meant to say that it's not surprising that a team who's stars fade away in later games keeps losing.

 

[BraveCanadian]

I think you meant to say that it's not surprising that a team who's stars fade away in later games keeps losing.

It is the same kind of argument as saying Patrick Roy lost a lot of game 7s (he did by the way) so he must be a bad playoff goaltender.

 

[GoonieFace]

I can't believe this guy bid himself up to the tune of 11.5M x 8 years

It's laughable.

It is, but it’s directly as a result of Mitch making $11 mil for the past 5 seasons. I don’t blame Nylander one bit

 

[Clark4Ever]

At least Nylander is willing to commit to a maximum term which is a benefit to the team as well. Will Marner be willing to follow suit?

 

[BraveCanadian]

It is, but it’s directly as a result of Mitch making $11 mil for the past 5 seasons. I don’t blame Nylander one bit

It is a direct result of setting the bar at 11 million with Tavares and then having 3 players who are better than him. And no effort whatsoever to keep a lid on things by Dubas at all.

 

[Gary Nylund]

It is the same kind of argument as saying Patrick Roy lost a lot of game 7s (he did by the way) so he must be a bad playoff goaltender.

Not even close to being the same. If Marner raised his level of play and was at 1.3 PPG instead of .47 PPG when the chips are down, nobody would be on his case. I don't follow the Habs so I have no idea what happened there, but I know he's a legend, so I'm going to guess that his performance in those games was pretty good.

 

[ACC1224]

Yeah, I don't buy it. The stats nerds always have it figured out right up until they don't again.



Shocker that a team with players who have lost the vast majority of their playoff series have poor numbers in later games..

It’s not ‘players’ it’s always just one holding the rest of the dynamo’s back.

 

[stickty111]

There is no reasoning with that crowd who can't accept criticism of Mitch.
These are Nylander's splits in the series.
Games 1-4: 24/31= 0.77
Games 5-7: 16/19= 0.84.
So his performance kind of stays the same no matter where the series is, with slight improvement later on. It doesn't fall off a cliff like Marner's.

PS. I used the first 3 games of Jackets series as games 1-4 category, and last 2 games as games 5-7 category

Here are Matthews' splits
Games 1-4: 29/31= 0.93
Games 5-7: 15-19= 0.78

Tavares
Games 1-4: 11/19= 0.58
Games 5-7: 11/11= 1.00

So common theme here. None of the other 3 have started off series as well as Marner, but the 3 haven't callapsed in the important games like Marner has.

 

[ACC1224]

At least Nylander is willing to commit to a maximum term which is a benefit to the team as well. Will Marner be willing to follow suit?

Don’t see why not. He wanted 8 last time but Dubas wouldn’t have it.
The Dubas dysfunction with these contracts is going to haunt this team for years.

 

[stickty111]

Not even close to being the same. If Marner raised his level of play and was at 1.3 PPG instead of .47 PPG when the chips are down, nobody would be on his case. I don't follow the Habs so I have no idea what happened there, but I know he's a legend, so I'm going to guess that his performance in those games was pretty good.

Not even 1.3 PPG, but if it was even Matthews level at 0.78, we probably win couple series more by now

At least Nylander is willing to commit to a maximum term which is a benefit to the team as well. Will Marner be willing to follow suit?

Marner always wanted to follow Matthews. He wanted close to same AAV and wanted the same term and he got it. Marner is going to do it again. Dubas sadly let Marner control the organization.

 

[Drytoast]

We have no idea what the cap will be like in 4 yrs

It’s funny….we bash the previous GM for contracts and now we have another GM giving out what is the going rate.

Go figure…agents know what their clients take home pay will be compared to other players.

Careers can be short so I have no issue with players getting paid. The cap isn’t their problem. That’s the GM job

Doesn't matter what the cap is in 4 years. 11.5 mil will not age out as a mid term contract in 8 years.

And Canada is heading into a recession just fyi. Not like that matters because see above.

Tavares making 11 right now is bad. It was bad when he signed it, and it is bad now at the very end of it. We are all waiting now for this contract to end and are hoping he takes like half that amount. So it will be with Willy.

 

[HellasLEAF]

Doesn't matter what the cap is in 4 years. 11.5 mil will not age out as a mid term contract in 8 years.

And Canada is heading into a recession just fyi. Not like that matters because see above.

Tavares making 11 right now is bad. It was bad when he signed it, and it is bad now at the very end of it. We are all waiting now for this contract to end and are hoping he takes like half that amount. So it will be with Willy.

He is one of the best players in the league so, it probably won't 'age out' as a mid term contract in 8 years you are right.

 

[Drytoast]

He is one of the best players in the league so, it probably won't 'age out' as a mid term contract in 8 years you are right.

He is NOT one of the best players in the league. This year in points he will finish top 10. This is his peak. He will not hit these numbers again and we will still not go deep in the playoffs while teams with lesser skilled, harder working teams will.

So what have we bought here?

Hair.

 

[HellasLEAF]

He is NOT one of the best players in the league. This year in points he will finish top 10. This is his peak. He will not hit these numbers again and we will still not go deep in the playoffs while teams with lesser skilled, harder working teams will.

So what have we bought here?

Hair.

He is one of the best players in the league. I hadn't considered his hair though, which is pretty solid.

 

[Martin Skoula]

He is NOT one of the best players in the league. This year in points he will finish top 10. This is his peak. He will not hit these numbers again and we will still not go deep in the playoffs while teams with lesser skilled, harder working teams will.

So what have we bought here?

Hair.

Sorry about your skullet guy, rooting for advancements in hair restoration technology for you

 

[Arzak]

He is NOT one of the best players in the league. This year in points he will finish top 10. This is his peak. He will not hit these numbers again and we will still not go deep in the playoffs while teams with lesser skilled, harder working teams will.

So what have we bought here?

Hair.

Paying for hair is almost as stupid as paying for elite* PK.


*bad at preventing goals, scores on PK

 

[HolyCrap]

Reinhart
Only plays a little more than half his games in Florida.
On $5mm

Florida tax - $1,932,978
Ontario tax - - $2,643,876

So he only has to get $10.3mm

Yup. But apparently taxes don’t mean anything. So we’ve been told here many times. Lol.

 

[notdoneyet]

I think you meant to say that it's not surprising that a team whose stars fade away in later games keeps losing.

Since you always have to include marner in your criticism of the team because of your bias agenda
Please do the same for
Nylander matthews and Tavares

 

[Martin Skoula]

Yup. But apparently taxes don’t mean anything. So we’ve been told here many times. Lol.

This is a stupid take, the GMs in Florida and Texas are just always really really good at negotiating every single time. They just always hire the elite of the elite negotiators without fail and they only acquire players who are willing to sacrifice money for the team to the point that they have 90% of the guys willing to take discounts in the league. The fact the discounts are almost always the exact same amount as the tax difference is irrelevant at best and dangerous conspiratorial thinking at worst

 

[Gabriel426]

Here is why it doesn't matter as much as people want to believe.

In any given year, how many teams know they are going to make the playoffs? How many teams really believe they can win?

Now usually the guys that can help you win in the playoffs will help you win in the regular season but there are not enough teams that know they can make the playoffs, and not enough capspace to sign guys that you think can help you win.

In hockey 2 out of the top 10 and I think 8 out of the top 20 have ever won.

Football is tougher because a QB will always be the highest paid and they can almost win by themselves.


Even in the NFL only 3 out of the top 10 have ever won the SuperBowl

If highest paid players don’t win Championships, why do teams even bother paying them?

Don’t answer that.

The point is there are expectations when it comes to highest paid players. Now some teams want to make noise… and believe they are that ONE player away from winning. Sharks failed with EK but Vegas won with Eichel. Then there are teams that just needed to pay their own stars bc they can’t replace them.

To complete ignore playoffs performance is foolish but to use playoff performance as the be all and and all is equally foolish.

Even without the salary cap, Hockey is unique compare to the other big 3 NA sports. Basketball is literally a one man show as we seen with our Raptors having a Kawhi on the team made them Champs and you have to go back to the Pistons team like 20yrs to find a Championship team that didn’t had a top 3 player in the league if not the best player in the league.
NFL is similar as QB will make or break a team.
Baseball is a game of individuals. It is always the pitcher Vs the batter.
Football or soccer is actually the closest comparison to Hockey where individuals are important but team play is equally important .
Having said all that, being paid the highest comes with expectations, both personal and team, esp when the team got talents. When Ovie and his Caps couldn’t make it through the 2nd round, it was never oh the supporting players didn’t show up but rather can Ovie lead the Caps?
Same with Mack? It is completely fair to ask the same questions to AM, MM, JT and Willie. Can any of them lead the Leafs to Cup? If anything that is a compliment to them being top players in the league as trust me, guys like Kampf and Gregor would love someone asking them can they lead the Leafs to win the Cup.
To kept blaming other factors such as being out goalied or tough opponents or supporting cast not good enough or Keefe or even fans…. Although some are true but deep down, our highest paid guys need to be a lot better and not be outplayed by opposing team highest paid players where pretty much made a few millions less than anyone of AM, MM and JT.