Nylander contract discussion - New Poll

[Menzinger]

Worth noting that if Nylander does sign at 11.5 it will carry a lower cap % than both Matthews and Marner's RFA deals when they were signed, and will have 8 years of term

 

[Gary Nylund]

Doesn't factor in at all.

Like I said, there's 32 teams in the league. There's a sea of players to hit on that can exceed their cap hit values in the playoffs.

We want to get rid of the good stuff just because we deploy guys who play like they're worth 750k instead ?

If we can find some good depth that plays hard in playoffs and we are actually sad that we can't re-sign them because of how well they played and we still can't win rounds then I'll consider rid of a star player.

I'm not getting rid of star players because Thornton failed on PP1 or we couldn't afford to keep Bunting and Mik and Kerfoots etc

Yeah, I can tell.

I guess you haven't noticed that M&M have a history of not playing up to their cap hit values during the playoffs.

Not to butt in, but... Have they ever been on fire at the same time? I think thats what we want. Actually all four at there best. That would be nice.

I've seen all go cold at the same time, like every game 7 we've ever played. Does that count?

Yeah sure but it's all Marners fault, is how it goes

I think you know that it's never that simple. Marner deserves his fair share of blame, no more, and no less.

 

[djdev]

Worth noting that if Nylander does sign at 11.5 it will carry a lower cap % than both Matthews and Marner's RFA deals when they were signed, and will have 8 years of term

not sure 8 years is a thing that makes this better tbh lol
he will be 37 when the contract is up....

 

[Menzinger]

not sure 8 years is a thing that makes this better tbh lol
he will be 37 when the contract is up....

35.

And funnily enough his dad had two of his best career seasons at 34 and 35

 

[BraveCanadian]

Is it a realistic scenario that Treliving would trade Marner and Tavares for massive assets next season and do a quick rebuild around Matthews and Nylander as the new slimmed down core? Opening up money for defense and goaltending?

No, they both have NMC.

I don't know why people keep suggesting moving these players when the players are in control.

 

[djdev]

35.

And funnily enough his dad had two of his best career seasons at 34 and 35

hes turning 28 on may 1st, he will be 29 before the 1st season of his new contract is up, how do you figure 35?

 

[Jojalu]

not sure 8 years is a thing that makes this better tbh lol
he will be 37 when the contract is up....

So much can happen between now and 8 years. The least of my worries is how the 8th year plays out

 

[4thline]

hes turning 28 on may 1st, he will be 29 before the 1st season of his new contract is up, how do you figure 35?

Because barring major scheduling change he would play precisely 0 regular season games of that conract as a 36 year old

 

[GoonieFace]

Should have signed him in the summer before Matthews, number would have been under 10 now 11.5

I doubt that very much, and there is nothing that suggests Willy would sign in the summer anyway. If 11.5 is the number that’s outrageous and I like Nylander.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Binnington, and Hill. Some might argue Towes and Kane. Domi and Bertuzzi this year? Kubel. LOL.

Add Dave Bolland to that list. He did didley squat in the regular season compared to the playoffs. We paid him for his Playoff warrior mentality...no matter what people say...the playoff performances matter and get you paid.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

Yeah, I can tell.

I guess you haven't noticed that M&M have a history of not playing up to their cap hit values during the playoffs.

I've seen all go cold at the same time, like every game 7 we've ever played. Does that count?

I think you know that it's never that simple. Marner deserves his fair share of blame, no more, and no less.

You're free to punish the stars if you wish but you're extending the cup win to 5-10+ years instead of 0-3.

We are allergic to depth that exceeds their cap hit and thats more important than singling out stars. Only 1 team wins the cup a year. Stars dying unexpectedly in a series loss is way of life.

Our series always go down to the wire where just 1 depth player rising to the occasion flips the series. Tampa even gets this from a Nick Paul walking in on Brodie for a game winner. Our stars get zero help.

 

[Jojalu]

Add Dave Bolland to that list. He did didley squat in the regular season compared to the playoffs. We paid him for his Playoff warrior mentality...no matter what people say...the playoff performances matter and get you paid.

I would concede it matters for role players far more than the star player.

Again though. Check every sport and see who the highest paid players are and if the have won a Championship or not.

 

[ACC1224]

Yeah sure but it's all Marners fault, is how it goes

He does have the meanest dad though

 

[DraftSchmaft]

When the 3 stars were on ElC and the under dogs, they would take the series to the very end for us.

I can't be the only one curious to see what they can do today if they were surrounded by players that exceed their cap hits in playoffs instead of being surrounded by Thornton Spezza bunting Engvall Mik Kerfoot and the like.

Can you imagine if Treliving find 4-5 mil value out of 1-2 mil this deadline to go with Bertuzzi?

Preach Hoglund.

If you want to know what the amigos can do with more Tampa like cost effective depth building (as in their cheap cap hits dont end up playing cheap), just think back to when we were under dogs with the 3 ELCers carrying us to the very end.

You can even go as far as saying getting to round 2 would be enough for them to skate circles all the way to the cup finals...and they weren't as good then as they are today.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Yeah, I can tell.

I guess you haven't noticed that M&M have a history of not playing up to their cap hit values during the playoffs.

I've seen all go cold at the same time, like every game 7 we've ever played. Does that count?

I think you know that it's never that simple. Marner deserves his fair share of blame, no more, and no less.

What gets people pissed at AM and MM is they got paid ahead of time because Dubas told us this was the new landscape for RFA's. We were expecting Stanley Cups and Hart Trophy's when we paid them ahead of time. When that fact is brought up to their fanboys we get told to "Not get hung up on the past contracts".

We already paid them like they were going to do something and they didn't....that was a mistake that seems to be paying dividends years later. At least Willy is willing to go for 8yrs for that kind of money.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You're free to punish the stars if you wish but you're extending the cup win to 5-10+ years instead of 0-3.

We are allergic to depth that exceeds their cap hit and thats more important than singling out stars. Only 1 team wins the cup a year. Stars dying unexpectedly in a series loss is way of life.

Our series always go down to the wire where just 1 depth player rising to the occasion flips the series. Tampa even gets this from a Nick Paul walking in on Brodie for a game winner. Our stars get zero help.

These are Marners playoff numbers. Maybe if he didn't fade away when the chips are down, we wouldn't need "just 1 depth player to rise to the occasion".

Games 1-4 - 1.19 PPG
Games 5-7 - 0.47 PPG

To be clear, it's not just Marner's fault. He's certainly not the only choker on the team, he's just the biggest one.

It's not about "punishing" anyone, that's nothing more than a pointless straw man argument. Most of us don't care how many "stars" we have, we just want to see a team that wins in the playoffs.

 

[Gabriel426]

You're free to punish the stars if you wish but you're extending the cup win to 5-10+ years instead of 0-3.

We are allergic to depth that exceeds their cap hit and thats more important than singling out stars. Only 1 team wins the cup a year. Stars dying unexpectedly in a series loss is way of life.

Our series always go down to the wire where just 1 depth player rising to the occasion flips the series. Tampa even gets this from a Nick Paul walking in on Brodie for a game winner. Our stars get zero help.

Or one of our top guys scoring a goal when needed like JT against TB last playoffs.

Then our top three highest paid players combined for ONE goal out of TEN goals in the second round. I can really see the lack of scoring from our depth guys was a huge reason we lost to the Panthers.

I would concede it matters for role players far more than the star player.

Again though. Check every sport and see who the highest paid players are and if the have won a Championship or not.

Beside baseball, pretty much the highest paid players in other team sports won Championships.

 

[ULF_55]

Who is Nylander poaching his points off?

33 assists
21 goals

What happens if others stop scoring?
You can't make a career of point poaching can you?

 

[stickty111]

These are Marners playoff numbers. Maybe if he didn't fade away when the chips are down, we wouldn't need "just 1 depth player to rise to the occasion".

Games 1-4 - 1.19 PPG
Games 5-7 - 0.47 PPG

To be clear, it's not just Marner's. He's certainly not the only choker on the team, he's just the biggest one.

It's not about "punishing" anyone, that's nothing more than a pointless straw man argument. Most of us don't care how many "stars" we have, we just want to see a team that wins in the playoffs.

Signifies again when the pressure isn't there, he shines. When the games get tougher and pressure increases, he crumbles.

 

[Nineteen67]

You're free to punish the stars if you wish but you're extending the cup win to 5-10+ years instead of 0-3.

We are allergic to depth that exceeds their cap hit and thats more important than singling out stars. Only 1 team wins the cup a year. Stars dying unexpectedly in a series loss is way of life.

Our series always go down to the wire where just 1 depth player rising to the occasion flips the series. Tampa even gets this from a Nick Paul walking in on Brodie for a game winner. Our stars get zero help.

The stars need to be surrounded by better D.

 

[Jojalu]

Or one of our top guys scoring a goal when needed like JT against TB last playoffs.

Then our top three highest paid players combined for ONE goal out of TEN goals in the second round. I can really see the lack of scoring from our depth guys was a huge reason we lost to the Panthers.


Beside baseball, pretty much the highest paid players in other team sports won Championships.

Here is why it doesn't matter as much as people want to believe.

In any given year, how many teams know they are going to make the playoffs? How many teams really believe they can win?

Now usually the guys that can help you win in the playoffs will help you win in the regular season but there are not enough teams that know they can make the playoffs, and not enough capspace to sign guys that you think can help you win.

In hockey 2 out of the top 10 and I think 8 out of the top 20 have ever won.

Football is tougher because a QB will always be the highest paid and they can almost win by themselves.

Or one of our top guys scoring a goal when needed like JT against TB last playoffs.

Then our top three highest paid players combined for ONE goal out of TEN goals in the second round. I can really see the lack of scoring from our depth guys was a huge reason we lost to the Panthers.


Beside baseball, pretty much the highest paid players in other team sports won Championships.

Even in the NFL only 3 out of the top 10 have ever won the SuperBowl

 

[Gary Nylund]

Signifies again when the pressure isn't there, he shines. When the games get tougher and pressure increases, he crumbles.

That's the Marner story so far, no two ways about it. Of course there are the lame brains who can't/won't see the reality and any criticisms get deflected with the "he once flipped the puck over the glass" or "people hate his father" nonsense but geez, anyone who watched him play in game 3 against Florida saw a boy playing among men, and a boy who looked scared out of his mind at that.

There's still time for Marner to change the narrative but it's hard to have much faith in that happening. If he has another mediocre playoffs and we reward him by paying him top dollar, I'm going to puke. I wish I could say I'll stop watching or start rooting for another team or whatever else but I can't. I've been watching for over 50+ years and I can't stop now, nothing to do but hope for a miracle.

Here is why it doesn't matter as much as people want to believe.

In any given year, how many teams know they are going to make the playoffs? How many teams really believe they can win?

Now usually the guys that can help you win in the playoffs will help you win in the regular season but there are not enough teams that know they can make the playoffs, and not enough capspace to sign guys that you think can help you win.

In hockey 2 out of the top 10 and I think 8 out of the top 20 have ever won.

Football is tougher because a QB will always be the highest paid and they can almost win by themselves.

Even in the NFL only 3 out of the top 10 have ever won the SuperBowl

I know you love to make excuses for these guys, I just don't know how you can justify doing it. You're a mystery to me.

 

[Jojalu]

That's the Marner story so far, no two ways about it. Of course there are the lame brains who can't/won't see the reality and any criticisms get deflected with the "he once flipped the puck over the glass" or "people hate his father" nonsense but geez, anyone who watched him play in game 3 against Florida saw a boy playing among men, and a boy who looked scared out of his mind at that.

There's still time for Marner to change the narrative but it's hard to have much faith in that happening. If he has another mediocre playoffs and we reward him by paying him top dollar, I'm going to puke. I wish I could say I'll stop watching or start rooting for another team or whatever else but I can't. I've been watching for over 50+ years and I can't stop now, nothing to do but hope for a miracle.


I know you love to make excuses for these guys, I just don't know how you can justify doing it. You're a mystery to me.

What are you talking about? I hate that they can't get it done. I wouldn't have neen upset if they traded anyone outside of maybe Matthews.

I carry a different point of view because of what I do.

 

[stickty111]

That's the Marner story so far, no two ways about it. Of course there are the lame brains who can't/won't see the reality and any criticisms get deflected with the "he once flipped the puck over the glass" or "people hate his father" nonsense but geez, anyone who watched him play in game 3 against Florida saw a boy playing among men, and a boy who looked scared out of his mind at that.

There's still time for Marner to change the narrative but it's hard to have much faith in that happening. If he has another mediocre playoffs and we reward him by paying him top dollar, I'm going to puke. I wish I could say I'll stop watching or start rooting for another team or whatever else but I can't. I've been watching for over 50+ years and I can't stop now, nothing to do but hope for a miracle.


I know you love to make excuses for these guys, I just don't know how you can justify doing it. You're a mystery to me.

There is no reasoning with that crowd who can't accept criticism of Mitch.
These are Nylander's splits in the series.
Games 1-4: 24/31= 0.77
Games 5-7: 16/19= 0.84.
So his performance kind of stays the same no matter where the series is, with slight improvement later on. It doesn't fall off a cliff like Marner's.

PS. I used the first 3 games of Jackets series as games 1-4 category, and last 2 games as games 5-7 category

 

[Kiwi]

35.

And funnily enough his dad had two of his best career seasons at 34 and 35

Thats one of the things that doesn't worry me about this deal

Nylander has a history of not getting injuries and he's an unbelievable skater, that ages well usually