Nylander contract discussion - New Poll

[ULF_55]

Cap rising $4m next year. If my math is correct Matty and Willie get $6.216m in raises so we will have $2.216m less to fill out the roster. Go get 'em Tre.

It is really about drafting.

It doesn't end with ELC, though.

IMO, Brodie doesn't bring $5mm worth of value at this stage in his career.

So next year if Liljegren can be signed at double his current contract, I'd be fine with him replacing the Brodie. That's a savings of approximately $2mm.

If your drafting sucks you can't rely on internal improvement.

Can Minten do what Kampf does next year, the year after?
Can Cowan replace Domi's offense?
Can Niemela make the jump and bring some offense?

If the drafting is good you can manage the overpaid. If drafting fails you're scrambling to find more Benoit and Gregor's just to have enough players capable of spending minimal time on the ice.

 

[notDatsyuk]

This is an argument that cuts both ways, however. Presumably, Nylander being on the second line a lot of the time often means he isn't being matched up against the other teams best defenders because they are matched up against Matthews.

That's been shown to be false. Between home and away matchups, coaching strategies (match top lines or go with shutdown) icings, and in-play line changes, that isn't anywhere near as clear-cut as some believe. It's also been shown that quality of linemates is more relevant than quality of opposition.

 

[IPS]

Willie @ 11.5mx8 or Pasta @ 11.25mx8. Who you taking? Clearly the Willie camp bent over the team that is a cash cow. The Bruins would have let him walk or traded him. It took months and a 60 goal pace for them to soften and pay Pasta.

I need some vague abstract /60 adjusted % stats before I can make my educated assessment, sorry. Bergeron and Marchand still carrying him?

 

[NMacrules]

I'll be sleeping like a baby knowing Matthews and Nylander are signed.

So awake for an hour and cry for an hour, awake for an hour, cry for an hour?

 

[notDatsyuk]

Would you rather pay for a 4 hour Taylor Swift concert or 4, one hour Yoko Ono concerts?

I think I'd pay to not have to go to either!

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

When the 3 stars were on ElC and the under dogs, they would take the series to the very end for us.

I can't be the only one curious to see what they can do today if they were surrounded by players that exceed their cap hits in playoffs instead of being surrounded by Thornton Spezza bunting Engvall Mik Kerfoot and the like.

Can you imagine if Treliving find 4-5 mil value out of 1-2 mil this deadline to go with Bertuzzi?

 

[Jojalu]

You don't get paid for playing in the playoffs, but I don't think it's true that your playoff performance doesn't affect your value.

Two different things.

I think it's very marginal. If at all. The odd player might pick up a few hundred thousand but can you name an example of anyone who has gotten paid because of playoff performance?

 

[ZEBROA]

Not sure how (or if) this factors into your thinking, but we've been a sub .500 team in the playoffs for 7 years in a row with Matthews and Nylander.

Not to butt in, but... Have they ever been on fire at the same time? I think thats what we want. Actually all four at there best. That would be nice.

 

[4thline]

I think it's very marginal. If at all. The odd player might pick up a few hundred thousand but can you name an example of anyone who has gotten paid because of playoff performance?

The great Fernando Pisani

 

[therealkoho]

How are we in a shitty predicament we have been able to retain 3 of the best players in the NHL for almost a decade and we are still a pretty competitive team.

People can say all they want we lost Kadri and Hyman and whoever else, but the reality is we had those guys plus the 3 core forwards and still didn’t win. IMO I think we’ve seen enough to know that these guys are capable of playing with structure. The problem is being motivated to do so on a consistent basis. That screams to me COACHING ISSUE. I think if we have any other coach we probably get past first round sooner

When a team such as Florida is pounding you into a juicy pulp, and their players are boxing your ears and nobody is saying anything back much less punching somebody's face in is not a coaching problem, and never has been, unless of course the coach is instructing them to just lay back and enjoy it.

In fact I'd imagine Shelly was imagining/wishing he could strap on the pads, lace up the skates and go out there and try on Tkachuk, or Reinhart

 

[Captain34]

Willy at $11.5MILx8 = $92mil.

Only the Leafs can offer him that 8th year. Meaning that on a 7-year deal, a team would have to pay him $13MIL+ to match the $92mil the Leafs are offering him.

I love Willy and want him to stay, but that is too rich. The Leafs are negotiating against themselves here.

Willy is demanding a salary in excess of what Pastrnak is making while Pastrnak has been the superior player throughout his career and Pastrnak's numbers and stats exceed Nylander's in virtually every offensive category throughout their careers.

You just can't win with 3 to 4 players taking so much of the cap. If Willy truly wants to stay a Leaf, and win with the Leafs, he ought to sacrifice.

Willy at $10.5MILx8 would be the HIGHEST I'd offer, with reluctance.

 

[ToneDog]

I think it's very marginal. If at all. The odd player might pick up a few hundred thousand but can you name an example of anyone who has gotten paid because of playoff performance?

Binnington, and Hill. Some might argue Towes and Kane. Domi and Bertuzzi this year? Kubel. LOL.

 

[ULF_55]

How do you do that when up until this point, Marner has demonstrably been the better player?

That is the problem with the precedent in these dumb deals the Leafs keep doing.

marner isn't due yet.

Perhaps he will play next season without signing like Nylander is doing this year, betting on himself.

This current trend shouldn't change:

What can't change is how much they've already been paid.

 

[Jojalu]

Binnington, and Hill. Some might argue Towes and Kane. Domi and Bertuzzi this year? Kubel. LOL.

Domi was going to get 3 mil regardless. Bertuzzi too for that matter.

If playoff success had any bearing on contracts and GM's believed that, they would have had multi year options and got paid accordingly.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Is it a realistic scenario that Treliving would trade Marner and Tavares for massive assets next season and do a quick rebuild around Matthews and Nylander as the new slimmed down core? Opening up money for defense and goaltending?

You won't trade either for massive assets.

Both would be UFAs. Sign and trade.

Tavares won't get a lot anyway. Sign him for 5 or 6 for a couple of years, and you might find a team to give you a second or late first.

Marner would need to be signed for probably 12 (and he'd likely want an NMC) or he tries the market, and how much will someone trade for him at 12?

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

Not to butt in, but... Have they ever been on fire at the same time? I think thats what we want. Actually all four at there best. That would be nice.

They haven't even had nhl caliber goalie for the last 3 runs to go with 750k style depth play. It was fraud goalies masquerading as above average somehow. I'd start there before looking into if they need to be on fire at the same time. Even 2 hot per series can get it done if team plays hard.

We need to see something different in depth build principles before consider removing stars.

 

[NMacrules]

Its funny thinking most of you think Nylander is negotiating this contract. Rest assured its the agent. His job is to get as much money possible which also inflate his fees.

 

[4thline]

Willy at $11.5MILx8 = $92mil.

Only the Leafs can offer him that 8th year. Meaning that on a 7-year deal, a team would have to pay him $13MIL+ to match the $92mil the Leafs are offering him.

His dad signed a 4 year deal @ 9.7% of the cap at age 37- Willy is an extremely fit, extremely confident guy, I doubt he values his age 35 season at 0.

 

[Jojalu]

Its funny thinking most of you think Nylander is negotiating this contract. Rest assured its the agent. His job is to get as much money possible which also inflate his fees.

While this is true, Willy also pays him and has the ability to fire him if he doesn't do what he is asking.

It would take nothing for him to say I want to stay in Toronto for my career, but I also believe that we need more help. Take a team friendly deal

 

[trellaine201]

Why does TO overpay almost every FA? If it was such a dream to play in TO why not take market value? Nylanders apparent contract has gone up almost $2M this season From what was offered earlier this year. Apparently.

 

[ZEBROA]

They haven't even had nhl caliber goalie for the last 3 runs to go with 750k style depth play. It was fraud goalies masquerading as above average somehow. I'd start there before looking into if they need to be on fire at the same time. Even 2 hot per series can get it done if team plays hard.

We need to see something different in depth build principles before consider removing stars.

If i made a team from scratch i would start with D and goalie position. The problem is this aint from scratch.

 

[therealkoho]

No, it will still be 12.5% whether it's 7 years or 8.

Tavares three seasons before his UFA contract 98 goals 220 points 0.93 ppg.

Panarin three seasons before his UFA contract 86 goals 243 points 1.00 ppg.

Nylander two + seasons before his UFA contract 95 goals (and counting) 226 points (and counting) 1.11 ppg.

Geez Will is pretty good huh?

 

[notDatsyuk]

Because Rielly re-signed recently, and at a very good price. The guys in the room aren't stupid - they know Rielly is more valuable to the team than Nylander (position-wise anyway). Matthews getting paid what he did was what it was - best goal scorer in the world can make different demands. Nylander though - there's many of his prototypes around the league.

What does this do to the room when Rielly (the leader of the bunch) is taking less only for the other star players to oppress the team by demanding every penny?

Add in the playoff failures over the years taking its toll and I'm not really sure where that locker room is going to be at.

I wasn't speaking of Matthews, but the other two.

Who are the "many of his prototypes around the league", and what do they get paid? Would Willy get 10 from other teams (that's what I think he's worth, but I understand the problems Dubas created here)?

I agree that Rielly got the short end of the stick (similar to Willy), because of Dubas. He could likely be getting 9 elsewhere

 

[WillyC]

Is that how we're doing contracts now? Just picking out one specific point in time and paying them based on that?

As it stands at this moment - he is a career high 87 point player. One stretch of 54 points in 37 games does not take priority over the entire body of work of a 27 year old player who's been in the league since 2015.

When the Bruins paid Pastrnak - he was in the middle of his career season except he's posted years where he's on pace for similar totals - like the year where he finished with 95 points and 48 goals in 70 games.

The gaslighting around here is unreal.

That’s often how contract years go with pending UFAs… Kadri just got paid the bag for his one career year in Colorado.

Willy is doing the same this season.

 

[therealkoho]

His dad signed a 4 year deal @ 9.7% of the cap at age 37- Willy is an extremely fit, extremely confident guy, I doubt he values his age 35 season at 0.

Other than the dad stuff, you can say the exact same thing about our Captain, who I would think is also one the strongest guys on the team!