Nylander contract discussion - New Poll

[Clark4Ever]

JT won't be making anywhere near what he is now. Kopitar signed a 2 year extension that kicks in after this season for 14 million. You can argue who you'd rather have but wouldn't give him anymore than 7 and because of his skating I think you offer less or say see you later.

I think it should be even less considering the overpay on his current deal and the fact that he's a hometown captain of the team.

If JT really wants to win and cement his legacy on the team, he should be willing to sign an extension at that point for a 5-6 million AAV. He's already made his money.

 

[4thline]

You can't win with a team built like this. You need talented depth. You can't round out your roster year after year with $800,000 dollar guys.

Go and actually look at what the top two teams in each division are paying their 7th through 13th highest paid forwards.

In Atlantic Florida and Boston have 1 player combined over 1.5 million, in 2m Morgan Geekie
If they were healthy the Rangers would have Kaako and Lafreniere a shade of 2m each.
Carolina has Staal, Fast, Martinook at 2.9, 2.4, 1.8
Jets have Lowry, Appleton, Namestnikov at 3.25 -2
Avalanche have Miles Wood
Canucks have Suter and Blueger at 1.9 and 1.6 respectively
Knights have Stephenson and Howden at 2.75 and 1.9.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

I really don’t think he gives a f. I would urge him to stop riding the subway if he’s not a perennial 100 point player at that cap hit though

Why? Because potentially a few low life losers would harass him?

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

You’re a fan of players, not the team.

Strange but there’s a lot like you.

Wrong again.

I'm a fan of the Stanley cup and smart moves. To get what I want I need Matthews and Nylander.

You have a fetish with cap space so you can waste your day fantasize about combos. There's a lot like you.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Wrong again.

I'm a fan of the Stanley cup and smart moves. To get what I want I need Matthews and Nylander.

You have a fetish with cap space so you can waste your day fantasize about combos. There's a lot like you.

Not sure how (or if) this factors into your thinking, but we've been a sub .500 team in the playoffs for 7 years in a row with Matthews and Nylander.

 

[Shooter2x]

Dubas fans are probably stumped on how to deal with the fraction of posters who hate Dubas but also fight to the death for the core.

It's like damn do we stand up for our boy Dubas or enjoy having these guys as our core enforcers

 

[notDatsyuk]

You didn't point anything out. You twisted it out of context much as possible to make Nylander seem somewhat comparable.

Tavares for reference was second in league scoring, 1 point away from winning the Art Ross with 86 points in 2015.

You ignore the fact the league is way higher scoring, that Nylander plays on a better team with better offensive players and you only look at PPG and cap percentage ignoring Nylander has never led him team in scoring like those 2.

Also, you think 8 years and 7 years makes no difference for a 28 year old player (when his contract starts).

Maybe you just missed it. I pointed out that $11M is 12.5% of an $87.7M cap, whether it's for 7 years or 8. Nothing twisted about that simple fact.

Willy plays on the second line behind one of the top two or three players in the league - big surprise he doesn't lead the team in scoring.

Ok - lower scoring in their pre-UFA years - let's do the math.

Tavares' three pre-UFA seasons, league scoring was 2.82 goals per team per game. Panarin's was 2.92. Nylander's is 3.16. 12% more than Tavares and 8% more than Panarin.

Adjusting Tavares' scoring by 12% gives 110 goals and 246 points, for a ppg of 1.04.

Adjusting Panarin's scoring by 8% gives 92 goals and 262 points, for a ppg of 1.08.

Willy at 95 goals (and counting) and 221 points (and counting), for a ppg of 1.11.

Without even taking into consideration that Tavares and Panarin each averaged over a minute more ice time per game (excluding PK time).

 

[stickty111]

The Marner contract is the one where you need to be ruthless. They clearly valued Nylander enough that they are overpaying him to keep him. You can't give Marner Matthews money. You can't. If he won't accept less money, you need to move on even if the Paul's get upset.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Maybe you just missed it. I pointed out that $11M is 12.5% of an $87.7M cap, whether it's for 7 years or 8. Nothing twisted about that simple fact.

Willy plays on the second line behind one of the top two or three players in the league - big surprise he doesn't lead the team in scoring.

Ok - lower scoring in their pre-UFA years - let's do the math.

Tavares' three pre-UFA seasons, league scoring was 2.82 goals per team per game. Panarin's was 2.92. Nylander's is 3.16. 12% more than Tavares and 8% more than Panarin.

Adjusting Tavares' scoring by 12% gives 110 goals and 246 points, for a ppg of 1.04.

Adjusting Panarin's scoring by 8% gives 92 goals and 262 points, for a ppg of 1.08.

Willy at 95 goals (and counting) and 221 points (and counting), for a ppg of 1.11.

Without even taking into consideration that Tavares and Panarin each averaged over a minute more ice time per game (excluding PK time).

This is an argument that cuts both ways, however. Presumably, Nylander being on the second line a lot of the time often means he isn't being matched up against the other teams best defenders because they are matched up against Matthews.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I don't get the playoff arguement. No one gets paid based on what they have done in the playoffs. It's not how sports works.

Whether it should is a fair discussion

You don't get paid for playing in the playoffs, but I don't think it's true that your playoff performance doesn't affect your value.

Two different things.

 

[BraveCanadian]

The Marner contract is the one where you need to be ruthless. They clearly valued Nylander enough that they are overpaying him to keep him. You can't give Marner Matthews money. You can't. If he won't accept less money, you need to move on even if the Paul's get upset.

How do you do that when up until this point, Marner has demonstrably been the better player?

That is the problem with the precedent in these dumb deals the Leafs keep doing.

 

[ToneDog]

lol we go after those players because we dont have the space for impact players after the "core 4" divvy up their share of the team cap. expecting to find players that "play 5x worth their cap" with the available money we have left over is completely unrealistic.

Would you rather pay for a 4 hour Taylor Swift concert or 4, one hour Yoko Ono concerts?

 

[therealkoho]

The master plan is backing up matthews-marner with the 2024 version of Poni-Stajan-Antropov. Need 11 mil to get it done.

Jeebuzz remember when that was the first line?

 

[AtomicJets]

Is it a realistic scenario that Treliving would trade Marner and Tavares for massive assets next season and do a quick rebuild around Matthews and Nylander as the new slimmed down core? Opening up money for defense and goaltending?

 

[notDatsyuk]

One could easily argue that Rielly has been more valuable than Nylander to the team over the years, and has been just as valuable to the team this year during Nylander's career year.

So why'd Rielly only get peanuts? Why the f*** would he leave money on the table just for greedy shitheads to go scoop it up and not leave any room to make the team better?

If I was Rielly i'd knock some teeth out of Nylander the next time I see him.

Nylander, who's been making less? Why not knock some teeth out of one of the players making more, without contributing more to team success?

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

Not sure how (or if) this factors into your thinking, but we've been a sub .500 team in the playoffs for 7 years in a row with Matthews and Nylander.

Doesn't factor in at all.

Like I said, there's 32 teams in the league. There's a sea of players to hit on that can exceed their cap hit values in the playoffs.

We want to get rid of the good stuff just because we deploy guys who play like they're worth 750k instead ?

If we can find some good depth that plays hard in playoffs and we are actually sad that we can't re-sign them because of how well they played and we still can't win rounds then I'll consider rid of a star player.


I'm not getting rid of star players because Thornton failed on PP1 or we couldn't afford to keep Bunting and Mik and Kerfoots etc

 

[IPS]

Nylander, who's been making less? Why not knock some teeth out of one of the players making more, without contributing more to team success?

Because Rielly re-signed recently, and at a very good price. The guys in the room aren't stupid - they know Rielly is more valuable to the team than Nylander (position-wise anyway). Matthews getting paid what he did was what it was - best goal scorer in the world can make different demands. Nylander though - there's many of his prototypes around the league.

What does this do to the room when Rielly (the leader of the bunch) is taking less only for the other star players to oppress the team by demanding every penny?

Add in the playoff failures over the years taking its toll and I'm not really sure where that locker room is going to be at.

 

[therealkoho]

11.5mil is abit rich

So is 13.4
So is 10.6
So is 11 even though he was a UFA

The only high dollar, correct value contract is Morgans

 

[notDatsyuk]

Boston has a tradition of top players taking and less and also a tradition of winning

Chicken or egg argument I guess

As for the leafs …teams with mediocre d and g don’t win . But most teams don’t win and this is entertainment

Boston has management that knows what it's doing.

 

[freshwind]

a few things I have been thinking

1) we don't know the final number so the hand wringing maybe premature (still hoping for under the rumoured 11.5)
2) I'd rather overpay willie a bit on deal 3 than marner ... nylander's skating gives him a better shot at aging well, marner already looks like he is slowing down (willie's dad had his best seasons mid 30's I believe)
3) complaints on willie have always been about consistency - but i do recall an article last year that said he suffered from migraines and the lighting triggered it .... he went with special tinted visor and the migraines were not as much of an issue, and since then he has been very very good - i have not had migraines but i hear they are debilitating, maybe the willie of the last 16 months or so is the real willie? we can hope

i think i would go to marner this summer and give him an offer for his extension, tell him it does not change one cent, regardless of the season he has ... if he does not sign ask him to waive his nmc and they'll find someone who will pay him... in theory they could retain on him next year and still have additional money to invest elsewhere (real dollars are 775,000 after july 1)

trading or letting willie walk would have almost guaranteed mitch asking for 13 minimum

 

[djdev]

Would you rather pay for a 4 hour Taylor Swift concert or 4, one hour Yoko Ono concerts?

dafuq...

 

[IPS]

Tied with McDavid for 5th in the NHL at 54 points… 9 points ahead of Matthews, 14 points ahead of Marner, and 20 points ahead of Tavares.

Yeah, he’s getting paid north of $11 million.

Is that how we're doing contracts now? Just picking out one specific point in time and paying them based on that?

As it stands at this moment - he is a career high 87 point player. One stretch of 54 points in 37 games does not take priority over the entire body of work of a 27 year old player who's been in the league since 2015.

When the Bruins paid Pastrnak - he was in the middle of his career season except he's posted years where he's on pace for similar totals - like the year where he finished with 95 points and 48 goals in 70 games.

The gaslighting around here is unreal.

 

[therealkoho]

He was really good last year for 2/3rds of the season as well. Feel like this season is a little too cinderella like for me. Its just everything is going in that he touches and feel like he's not even actually playing that well for quite a while.

Willy was excellent right from the start of training camp. There were threads made last season wondering if Will was going to hit 50 goals, 90 points and such. He had a slight lull in the second half, but I think he might have been hurt or at least a little bit beaten up.

 

[81Leafs50]

Current 82-game points pace:
Nylander 120
Matthews 103
Marner 89
Tavares 75
Rielly 66

Marner is regressing. Most metrics show it.

 

[ToneDog]

Is that how we're doing contracts now? Just picking out one specific point in time and paying them based on that?

As it stands at this moment - he is a career high 87 point player. One stretch of 54 points in 37 games does not take priority over the entire body of work of a 27 year old player who's been in the league since 2015.

When the Bruins paid Pastrnak - he was in the middle of his career season except he's posted years where he's on pace for similar totals - like the year where he finished with 95 points and 48 goals in 70 games.

The gaslighting around here is unreal.

Willie @ 11.5mx8 or Pasta @ 11.25mx8. Who you taking? Clearly the Willie camp bent over the team that is a cash cow. The Bruins would have let him walk or traded him. It took months and a 60 goal pace for them to soften and pay Pasta.