Nikita Kucherov is the clear favorite for the Art Ross Trophy

  • PLEASE check any bookmark on all devices. IF you see a link pointing to mandatory.com DELETE it Please use this URL https://forums.hfboards.com/
Status
Not open for further replies.

McShogun99

Registered User
Aug 30, 2009
18,585
15,081
Edmonton
He missed 2 games at the start of the season with an upper body injury that was anticipated to see him out up to 2 weeks. No matter which way you slice it, he wasn't 100% for 100% of the season. And his 75% might still exceed many players 100% so I guess "garbage" is subjective :)
I think he came back early as well to play in the heritage classic.
 

jigglysquishy

Registered User
Jun 20, 2011
8,102
8,475
Regina, Saskatchewan
Do you think they skip games if they are within a point or 2 or 3 of a scoring title though? All players will say they care more about winning then individual stats, but I can’t see a guy skipping a game to ret if it means he loses a chance to win a scoring title….you have to have an ego to play at that level, so would be surprised if their egos let them do that
McDavid missed the last game of 21-22 to rest up for the playoffs.

The Oilers have a really compressed schedule in the last month and particularly the last week.

The playoffs are the focus. Management got him to rest in 2022, they can get him to rest again in 2024.

I agree it's unlikely he misses game 81. But I would anticipate he misses game 82.
 

klefbombs shoulder

Registered User
Jul 21, 2023
536
977
I may have already said this, but its looking like the most exciting Ross race in a decades time.

McDavid missed the last game of 21-22 to rest up for the playoffs.

The Oilers have a really compressed schedule in the last month and particularly the last week.

The playoffs are the focus. Management got him to rest in 2022, they can get him to rest again in 2024.

I agree it's unlikely he misses game 81. But I would anticipate he misses game 82.
It really depends. If home ice/first in the division is on the line I don't think he sits. If the Art Ross is up for grabs I don't think he sits either.
 

Toby91ca

Registered User
Oct 17, 2022
2,315
1,702
McDavid missed the last game of 21-22 to rest up for the playoffs.

The Oilers have a really compressed schedule in the last month and particularly the last week.

The playoffs are the focus. Management got him to rest in 2022, they can get him to rest again in 2024.

I agree it's unlikely he misses game 81. But I would anticipate he misses game 82.
But in 2021-22 missing the last game would have had no impact on his chances to win the scoring race. If he's 10pts up with a couple games to go or 10pts back, I can see him skipping a couple games, but if it's close, I suspect he cares enough about the scoring title to play those games and go for it.
 

Grifter3511

Registered User
Nov 3, 2009
2,456
2,672
There's a lot that's not quite true here. 1) I don't think McDavid was playing injured, he just had a slow start. He definitely didn't look like garbage at any point, let alone the first 3rd of the season....he had 40pts after 25 games. Maybe you can look at the first 11 games where he only had 10 points....which is quite good, but perhaps garbage for him. 2) Probably not fair to say that McDavid got behind the 8 ball early, so what he's doing is even better since Mack and Kucherov have been firing on all cylinders all season.....Mack had 11pts through 11 games and 34 points through 25 games....how does that compare to McDavid?

Kucherov was bit hotter from the start, but not a huge advantage....he had 11pts through 10 games, but then scored 5pts in 11th game.....he was sitting at 42pts through 25 games....so only 2 ahead of McDavid through first third of the season.
I should clarify that I meant McDavid looked like garbage relative to his usual self. McD averages over 1.5 ppg. After 11 games he was 0.9. That is a HUGE drop off. Whereas the other two (Kuch & Mack) produced starts almost (but not quite) in line with their career average ppgs. So yes, I stand corrected in that McD was never truly behind the 8 ball. But it would also be disingenuous to say that this was a typical start to the season for McD.

And now Kuch and Mack are on pace to shatter their career highs in points and are still in jeopardy of being beaten by McD who is not pacing for his best season. I'm not a McD fan by any stretch, but I am continually amazed at how head and shoulders better he is than anyone else out there.
 
Last edited:

Cup or Bust

Registered User
Oct 17, 2017
4,311
3,769
I should clarify that I meant McDavid looked like garbage relative to his usal self. McD averages over 1.5 ppg. After 11 games he was 0.9. That is a HUGE drop off. Whereas the other two (Kuch & Mack) produced starts almost (but not quite) in line with their career average ppgs. So yes, I stand corrected in that McD was never truly behind the 8 ball. But it would also be disingenuous to say that this was a typical start to the season) for McD.

And now Kuch and Mack are on pace to shatter their career highs in points and are still in jeopardy of being beaten by McD who is not pacing for his best season. I'm not a McD fan by any stretch, but I am continually amazed at how head and shoulders better he is than anyone else out there.
The year to year margins offensively between players will never be like they were in the 80's because no teams score 400 goals a season any more but career wise no one currently in the NHL is even close to McDavid, he is elite every season and at the top of the charts every single season. Other players at their absolute best for 1 or 2 seasons match what McDavid does every season.
 

jigglysquishy

Registered User
Jun 20, 2011
8,102
8,475
Regina, Saskatchewan
The year to year margins offensively between players will never be like they were in the 80's because no teams score 400 goals a season any more but career wise no one currently in the NHL is even close to McDavid, he is elite every season and at the top of the charts every single season. Other players at their absolute best for 1 or 2 seasons match what McDavid does every season.
It wasn't "teams". It was just the Gretzky Oilers at his absolute peak.

The 10 highest scoring non-Oilers of the 80s.

Flames 88 - 397
Islanders 82 - 385
Kings 89 - 376 (Gretzky in on 44.7% of goals)
Flames 85 - 363
Nordiques 84 - 360
Canadiens 82 - 360
Jets 85 - 358
Islanders 84 - 357
Nordiques 82 - 356
Islanders 81 - 355

With the Oilers
Oilers 84 - 446 (Gretzky in on 46.0% of goals)
Oilers 86 - 426 (Gretzky in on 50.5% of goals)
Oiles 83 - 424 (Gretzky in on 46.2% of goals)
Oilers 82 - 417 (Gretzky in on 50.8% of goals)
Oilers 85 - 401 (Gretzky in on 51.9% of goals)
Oilers 87 - 372 (Gretzky in on 49.2% of goals)
Oilers 88 - 363 (Gretzky in on 41.0% of goals)

Look at this year
Avalanche - 230 GF (MacKinnon in on 45.6% of goals)
Oilers - 212 GF (McDavid in on 46.7% of goals)
Lightning - 211 GF (Kucherov in on 49.8% of goals)

Gretzky was able to put up 50+% of team goals in Cup-winning deep teams 3 times. Yes, he's not putting up 215 today. But there's no reason to think he wouldn't dominate to a greater degree than McDavid does.
 

Beukeboom

Registered User
Apr 1, 2007
1,952
1,414
It’s a 1 horse race. McDavid has already closed a 20+ point gap, has games in hand, and is several tiers above both to begin with.
If he was several tiers above them he'd won the Art already. I think Gretzky would have won playing a little over half a season his craziest season, and Lemieux could generally skip 20 games or so (non Peak Gretzky years).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nathaniel Skywalker

GrandmaCookie

Registered User
Feb 10, 2019
2,475
2,925
It might be time to update the title to there is no clear cut favorite
No because that is the whole point of this thread, to talk trash about the scoring leader and props another player more deserving of the art ross even if he has less points.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HabsQC

Canovin

1% is the new 11.5%
Oct 27, 2010
19,104
10,472
780
It actually might be between Mackinnon and McDavid. The Avs and Oilers had some fire power up front
 

Cup or Bust

Registered User
Oct 17, 2017
4,311
3,769
It wasn't "teams". It was just the Gretzky Oilers at his absolute peak.

The 10 highest scoring non-Oilers of the 80s.

Flames 88 - 397
Islanders 82 - 385
Kings 89 - 376 (Gretzky in on 44.7% of goals)
Flames 85 - 363
Nordiques 84 - 360
Canadiens 82 - 360
Jets 85 - 358
Islanders 84 - 357
Nordiques 82 - 356
Islanders 81 - 355

With the Oilers
Oilers 84 - 446 (Gretzky in on 46.0% of goals)
Oilers 86 - 426 (Gretzky in on 50.5% of goals)
Oiles 83 - 424 (Gretzky in on 46.2% of goals)
Oilers 82 - 417 (Gretzky in on 50.8% of goals)
Oilers 85 - 401 (Gretzky in on 51.9% of goals)
Oilers 87 - 372 (Gretzky in on 49.2% of goals)
Oilers 88 - 363 (Gretzky in on 41.0% of goals)

Look at this year
Avalanche - 230 GF (MacKinnon in on 45.6% of goals)
Oilers - 212 GF (McDavid in on 46.7% of goals)
Lightning - 211 GF (Kucherov in on 49.8% of goals)

Gretzky was able to put up 50+% of team goals in Cup-winning deep teams 3 times. Yes, he's not putting up 215 today. But there's no reason to think he wouldn't dominate to a greater degree than McDavid does.
My point was not whether Gretzky or McDavid would dominate more or less, my point is that no player would ever dominate to the same degree because it's not likely for any team to score 360 - 400 goals and create that large of a disparity. When the best offensive teams are only scoring 280 to 320 goals a season in most cases and even less in previous seasons until recently and there is a salary cap which only allows so much high end talent per team you are not likely to ever get 50 or 60 point variances in most cases between the best performing players in the league in the scoring race, at least not consistently. If Gretzky played in today's era on a team that scores 300 goals a season which is high end in today's game, even if he scored on 50% that is only 150 points. That is not likely going to win the scoring title by 50-60 points.

That was not even my point at all begin with, my point was even with diminished margins in the ability to dominate peers on a season to season basis, McDavid's overall career is far above anyone else currently in the league which is why a lot of his accomplishments have to be compared to guys like Lemieux and Gretzky. It was not meant to compare to Gretzky's dominance.
 
Last edited:

Toby91ca

Registered User
Oct 17, 2022
2,315
1,702
I should clarify that I meant McDavid looked like garbage relative to his usual self. McD averages over 1.5 ppg. After 11 games he was 0.9. That is a HUGE drop off. Whereas the other two (Kuch & Mack) produced starts almost (but not quite) in line with their career average ppgs. So yes, I stand corrected in that McD was never truly behind the 8 ball. But it would also be disingenuous to say that this was a typical start to the season for McD.

And now Kuch and Mack are on pace to shatter their career highs in points and are still in jeopardy of being beaten by McD who is not pacing for his best season. I'm not a McD fan by any stretch, but I am continually amazed at how head and shoulders better he is than anyone else out there.
I don't disagree with most of this, I guess I just think his apparent meteoric rise through the scoring list is overblown or somewhat misleading.

You are suggesting amazement at McDavid competing for the the scoring title in a year where Mack and Kuch are pacing to "shatter" their career highs while McDavid isn't pacing for his best. Reality is that McDavid is pacing for his 2nd best and I wouldn't suggest Mack and Kuch are pacing to "shatter" their best.....Mack was pacing for close to 130pts last year and Kuch has scored close to 130pts before.....
 

Grifter3511

Registered User
Nov 3, 2009
2,456
2,672
I don't disagree with most of this, I guess I just think his apparent meteoric rise through the scoring list is overblown or somewhat misleading.

You are suggesting amazement at McDavid competing for the the scoring title in a year where Mack and Kuch are pacing to "shatter" their career highs while McDavid isn't pacing for his best. Reality is that McDavid is pacing for his 2nd best and I wouldn't suggest Mack and Kuch are pacing to "shatter" their best.....Mack was pacing for close to 130pts last year and Kuch has scored close to 130pts before.....
You don't find it amazing that McD can get off to such a dismal start and still end up pacing for his 2nd highest points total ever?

And my apologies for being nitpicky, but your last point is exactly why I said 'point totals' and not 'ppg' in that last post. Kucherov is on pace to get 10 more points than his previous career high. Mack is on pace to beat his previous high by 30+ points. Maybe the Kucherov one is a bit of a stretch, but I think we can classify those as shattering their previous bests.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Frosty415

Toby91ca

Registered User
Oct 17, 2022
2,315
1,702
You don't find it amazing that McD can get off to such a dismal start and still end up pacing for his 2nd highest points total ever?
To be honest, no. Everyone goes through hot and cold streaks and we’re only talking about 10 or 11 games where he was able to still get 10 points, so his cold streak was pretty limited
 

cupface52

Registered User
Jan 12, 2008
4,430
651
Burlington, On
To be honest, no. Everyone goes through hot and cold streaks and we’re only talking about 10 or 11 games where he was able to still get 10 points, so his cold streak was pretty limited

After coming back from injury, McDavid had 2 points in 6 games, which I believe is roughly how many games he was supposed to miss originally, 6-8 games total. That is easily his worst stretch in his entire career, including his rookie year, when scoring was way down.

Without those 6 games, McDavid is scoring at 1.87ppg. Exact same ppg he had last year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Regal

JFedol

Registered User
May 25, 2023
91
140
Calgary, Alberta
108 for Nate Dawg, Kuch needs to start going, excited for tomorrows matchup against my Flames

McDavid with those games in hand could again/seal and finish the job tho
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad