NHL to Atlanta odds just increased significantly

[FlyguyOX]

I’m excited for an Atlanta team. Just put a quality team on the ice and they will sell out games.

Also, they will not lack for corporate money. They are going to have corporate boxes and tickets 1000% sold and booked. Cash cow.

 

[Goose]

I feel like 32 is the perfect number of teams for the league, I don't have an opinion either way on Atlanta, but it feels like oversaturation if they're not moving a franchise, and with 33, you know they're going to try to get to 34 or 36.

 

[Golden_Jet]

When there's an equal number of US teams as the other major sports leagues who, I'm sure by pure coincidence and no correlation at all, rake in way more $$$. You're really concerned over the last 2 guys on an active roster that get single digit minutes in a game versus 1+ billion expansion fee and staking a team in the largest city and business hub in the southeast. Wild.


Oof, thinking these guys don't have families, or that these young players won't want to go to an NHL game, and that there's no correlation with hockey interest in the area with amount of interest in attending an NHL game.

Did you read your own link,

The Atlanta Amateur Hockey League (AAHLThe Atlanta Amateur Hockey League (AAHL) l is the oldest and largest premier adult recreational ice hockey league in Atlanta,

link says oldest Atlanta league, no mention of largest in US, even though “learn more” link doesn’t work.
Atlanta has struck out twice in the past.

No expansion needed atm.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

I have lived here for 50 years. How about you?

Did you have the same opinion when the Braves moved from the same Downtown area?

 

[#37]

My whole life. It's in a perfect location for all metro ATL (e the large majority of the cities population AND money AND families AND youth AND proximity to adulty hockey leagues AND youth programs AND ice rinks. I'm guessing you're ITP.

Nothing on GA 400, much less up in Cumming, is the perfect location for 'Metro Atlanta'. Well, unless it has MARTA access. The old Northridge mall area would be a better location.

You won't have college kids or many in their 20's. The crowd will be middle aged people and school aged children, the atmosphere is going to be horrible. The place will be empty during the 1st period because people will be fighting traffic, trying to pick up their families, and grab a meal so that they don't get gouged at the arena. And everyone will be complaining about the price of parking.

The golf courses will help you get end of the road restricted free agents, but most will be well aware of the hour long bus ride to the airport. Better to do that 2 times a year than 41.

Oh, like the Braves?

The Braves are in a better spot being right off 285 and near 75.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Nothing on GA 400, much less up in Cumming, is the perfect location for 'Metro Atlanta'. Well, unless it has MARTA access. The old Northridge mall area would be a better location.

You won't have college kids or many in their 20's. The crowd will be middle aged people and school aged children, the atmosphere is going to be horrible. The place will be empty during the 1st period because people will be fighting traffic, trying to pick up their families, and grab a meal so that they don't get gouged at the arena. And everyone will be complaining about the price of parking.

The golf courses will help you get end of the road restricted free agents, but most will be well aware of the hour long bus ride to the airport. Better to do that 2 times a year than 41.


The Braves are in a better spot being right off 285 and near 75.

They're in a better spot being right in the middle of their ticket-buying base. Has also been a huge bonus being surrounded by an entertainment district. Just like the proposed NHL team home.

 

[MuckOG]

When there's an equal number of US teams as the other major sports leagues who, I'm sure by pure coincidence and no correlation at all, rake in way more $$$. You're really concerned over the last 2 guys on an active roster that get single digit minutes in a game versus 1+ billion expansion fee and staking a team in the largest city and business hub in the southeast. Wild.

Two points....First, there already is an equal number of teams (or more) as the other major sports leagues as it currently stands:

NHL - 32
NFL - 32
MLB - 30
NBA - 30

Second, even if you factor in Europe, there aren't as many kids playing hockey as there are playing football, baseball and basketball to keep the league adequately filled.

I don't doubt the expansion fees are the huge draw for the league, but when you continually dilute the talent pool in the league, eventually the product becomes sub-par and less watchable.

 

[#37]

Did you have the same opinion when the Braves moved from the same Downtown area?

That's an interesting question. Being a life long Braves fan, I understood that the Braves needed to move because of their financial situation. Once they moved to Cobb and got into the real-estate business, the finances are much better.

Also, that shuttle from Five-points to Turner field kind of sucked, where CNN Center has/had it's own MARTA station. The neighborhood around Phillips was better than the neighborhood around Turner Field in terms of safety and entertainment choices as well.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

How else do the NHL get 130+ point players again while taking talent from other leagues so people lose interest and hockey dies?

Right. It would be better if that talent didn't get into the top league, maybe a 2nd league formed in competition to the 1st, the two leagues fought over players for a handful of years, people lost interest, hockey died (especially in that 2nd league), and at the end the two leagues merged and a few teams from the 2nd league came into the 1st.

And then we had 130+ point players again.

At the end of the day it will take an owner with deep pockets and a long term plan. The guys who bought the Thrashers only wanted the arena and basketball club. The NHL needs to keep this in mind.

The NHL's original plan was for Ted Turner to own the team. It wasn't "Ted Turner buys the team, AOL/TW takes it over, it sells to a group of local people, it spends ~4 years fighting within itself, it finally settles and the remaining owners decide ew, NHL? f*** that team, we gotta get rid of it.

As long as those steps get avoided, that's a huge advantage.

There are 2-3 players on most every team that probably should be playing in the AHL, but are forced onto an NHL roster because there isn't enough quality talent out there to fill those spots. Adding more teams means that number will grow.

I remember the angst over going from 22-24 because San Jose was terrible and it was there's not enough talent in the league, we're really diluting things, people aren't going to be interested, hockey is going to die.

And then 24-26. And 26-30. And the last 2 teams. The talent has come along. This isn't MLB where there's very clearly a talent shortage despite not adding any teams for 25 years, and it's clearly getting worse and it's talking expansion.

 

[#37]

They're in a better spot being right in the middle of their ticket-buying base. Has also been a huge bonus being surrounded by an entertainment district. Just like the proposed NHL team home.

I think they are going to have problems retaining season ticket holders because of that location and the costs associated.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

That's an interesting question. Being a life long Braves fan, I understood that the Braves needed to move because of their financial situation. Once they moved to Cobb and got into the real-estate business, the finances are much better.

Also, that shuttle from Five-points to Turner field kind of sucked, where CNN Center has/had it's own MARTA station. The neighborhood around Phillips was better than the neighborhood around Turner Field in terms of safety and entertainment choices as well.

You're basing a lot on MARTA access. MARTA is definitely a convivence for some, but really isn't that popular. I mean, the Thrashers had MARTA drop people off at the front door. The Braves went from having some (not great) public transit access to none and business has never been better. To your point about the Braves having 285 and 75...they used to be 1/3 a mile off the Connector. I don't think that's a big difference.

As you know, Northern Atlanta is where all the money is (from a consumer POV). Putting an NHL team-anchored entrainment district right in the middle of that area will do great. Just like the Braves.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

I think they are going to have problems retaining season ticket holders because of that location and the costs associated.

It's right in the middle of where the season ticket holders are. And why would costs be different there as opposed to any other part of the city?

 

[NYRfan85]

People love the Blueland jerseys and they are nice but give me the original CCM navy jerseys with the silhouette logo and "wing" arm striping all day long.

It's a gorgeous look. The two-tone blue is played out at this point IMO - the balance of navy, that deep shade of red and the golden yellow is just awesome in this sweater. Plus the striping details in the hem and neck line.

It's late 90's/early 00's without being tacky.

The whole league lost it with that terrible bibbed piping Reebok era. Blanched all the character out of jerseys.

This was easily the Thrashers' best look. This logo should have been their primary logo, it was criminally underused.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Nothing on GA 400, much less up in Cumming, is the perfect location for 'Metro Atlanta'. Well, unless it has MARTA access. The old Northridge mall area would be a better location.

You won't have college kids or many in their 20's. The crowd will be middle aged people and school aged children, the atmosphere is going to be horrible. The place will be empty during the 1st period because people will be fighting traffic, trying to pick up their families, and grab a meal so that they don't get gouged at the arena. And everyone will be complaining about the price of parking.

The golf courses will help you get end of the road restricted free agents, but most will be well aware of the hour long bus ride to the airport. Better to do that 2 times a year than 41.


The Braves are in a better spot being right off 285 and near 75.

You seriously think college kids and kids in 20's are the target demographic? Have you checked the price of NHL tickets lately? You're not getting $35/game general admission tickets like ATL UTD. I'm 30 and have a family now and will buying season tickets, but single me in mid 20's probably wouldn't be able to afford it or wouldn't want to pay that much.

So the 45min drive from Marietta training center to the airport for ATL UTD has hurt their recruiting ability? the 30-45min drive from braves to airport has hurt their ability?

Why anyone would want to be near college park/The Airport is beyond me.

This post just shows how massive your misunderstanding is. I'd encourage you to read through the entire thread.

Two points....First, there already is an equal number of teams (or more) as the other major sports leagues as it currently stands:

NHL - 32
NFL - 32
MLB - 30
NBA - 30

Second, even if you factor in Europe, there aren't as many kids playing hockey as there are playing football, baseball and basketball to keep the league adequately filled.

I don't doubt the expansion fees are the huge draw for the league, but when you continually dilute the talent pool in the league, eventually the product becomes sub-par and less watchable.

Seems it's only gotten better with the previous rounds of expansion.

That's an interesting question. Being a life long Braves fan, I understood that the Braves needed to move because of their financial situation. Once they moved to Cobb and got into the real-estate business, the finances are much better.

Also, that shuttle from Five-points to Turner field kind of sucked, where CNN Center has/had it's own MARTA station. The neighborhood around Phillips was better than the neighborhood around Turner Field in terms of safety and entertainment choices as well.

Yep, ITP confirmed. Definitely understand you're completely wrong viewpoints now.

 

[MuckOG]

Seems it's only gotten better with the previous rounds of expansion.

Well, we disagree there. You still haven't answered my question though....when does enough become enough? 40 teams?

IMO, best scenario is to have the Coyotes relocate to Atlanta. Solves all problems.

 

[FlyguyOX]

I think they are going to have problems retaining season ticket holders because of that location and the costs associated.

Oh man I hope some of the other SIX (6) million population in metro Atlanta help fill in anyone who gives up their tickets. How of how does Nashville and their meager 2 million population ever keep their stadium full??

 

[#37]

You seriously think college kids and kids in 20's are the target demographic? Have you checked the price of NHL tickets lately? You're not getting $35/game general admission tickets like ATL UTD. I'm 30 and have a family now and will buying season tickets, but single me in mid 20's probably wouldn't be able to afford it or wouldn't want to pay that much.

So the 45min drive from Marietta training center to the airport for ATL UTD has hurt their recruiting ability? the 30-45min drive from braves to airport has hurt their ability?

Why anyone would want to be near college park/The Airport is beyond me.

This post just shows how massive your misunderstanding is. I'd encourage you to read through the entire thread.


Seems it's only gotten better with the previous rounds of expansion.


Yep, ITP confirmed. Definitely understand you're completely wrong viewpoints now.

It's right in the middle of where the season ticket holders are. And why would costs be different there as opposed to any other part of the city?

I can see I have touched a nerve here. I don't have time to sit here and handle the 'flow' of replies. Let's just agree to disagree.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Well, we disagree there. You still haven't answered my question though....when does enough become enough? 40 teams?

When the league attendance starts going down.

 

[dj4aces]

At the end of the day it will take an owner with deep pockets and a long term plan. The guys who bought the Thrashers only wanted the arena and basketball club. The NHL needs to keep this in mind.

Eh... not really. However, there are extremely talented players who are currently playing in other leagues who are absolutely high caliber players. A lot of folks point to Detroit's Edvinsson and Berggren, who have been almost exclusively with Grand Rapids this season. Does your favorite team have players in the AHL or ECHL that fans consistently point to and say "they should be playing with us. Why did [GM] sign [UFA] last summer?"

While I wouldn't argue the talent pool is infinite, I will tell you the talent pool is deep enough to add two new teams in the short term, and two more in the longer term. I will also tell you that adding those teams will spur interest in kids, who like Matthews, will see their first game at The Gathering and decide they want to play hockey professionally. There's now a number of players drafted out of places like California and Florida today that no one would've ever heard of if the league didn't award franchises to folks who want hockey in those areas before.

Short term, you could successfully argue that the talent won't be there. Long term, you couldn't be more wrong about the idea. Talent takes time to develop, and so does a hockey market.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

I can see I have touched a nerve here. I don't have time to sit here and handle the 'flow' of replies. Let's just agree to disagree.

Just trying to get a better understanding of your opinion, especially being from the city. That's all.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Well, we disagree there. You still haven't answered my question though....when does enough become enough? 40 teams?

Fans don't decide how many teams will be in a league. For the NHL, the Board of Governors decides that.

Ask them.

 

[BKarchitect]

Are we seriously going to get all frothed up over this total PR video?

The guy even says after all the hoopla about how this is gonna happen with “PROVIDED THE NHL VOTES TO EXPAND AND PROVIDED THE NHL PICKS ATLANTA”

Nothing against Atlanta and all the big dreams going on there now…I think hockey can work fine in the ATL. But this video is a total piece of PR that brings no actual substance to the table.

I’ve seen this all before. The civic excitement. The construction of a new arena district. The grand promises.

Where is the actual news here that the NHL is expanding to Atlanta or is intending to make it happen within 3 or 4 years?

 

[MuckOG]

Fans don't decide how many teams will be in a league. For the NHL, the Board of Governors decides that.

Ask them.

I don't doubt that. The owners love those expansion fees.

IMO, the best way to address this is to relocate the Coyotes to Atlanta. But, of course, that means no expansion fees.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Eh... not really. However, there are extremely talented players who are currently playing in other leagues who are absolutely high caliber players. A lot of folks point to Detroit's Edvinsson and Berggren, who have been almost exclusively with Grand Rapids this season. Does your favorite team have players in the AHL or ECHL that fans consistently point to and say "they should be playing with us. Why did [GM] sign [UFA] last summer?"

While I wouldn't argue the talent pool is infinite, I will tell you the talent pool is deep enough to add two new teams in the short term, and two more in the longer term. I will also tell you that adding those teams will spur interest in kids, who like Matthews, will see their first game at The Gathering and decide they want to play hockey professionally. There's now a number of players drafted out of places like California and Florida today that no one would've ever heard of if the league didn't award franchises to folks who want hockey in those areas before.

Short term, you could successfully argue that the talent won't be there. Long term, you couldn't be more wrong about the idea. Talent takes time to develop, and so does a hockey market.

Plus stankoven and bourque being buried in the AHL most of the year, if not all of the year for Bourque

 

[Ted Hoffman]

IMO, the best way to address this is to relocate the Coyotes to Atlanta. But, of course, that means no expansion fees.

OK, so the Coyotes move to Atlanta.

I don't know how that solves this problem of there being "2-3 players on most every team that probably should be playing in the AHL, but are forced onto an NHL roster because there isn't enough quality talent out there to fill those spots," and I'm not going to bother asking how we test that hypothesis to make sure it's true [or how we test to see when everyone in a league is of "sufficient talent" that expansion is then OK], but ... doing something and declaring victory FTW, I guess.