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NHL to Atlanta odds just increased significantly

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Bear of Bad News said:
If you reviewed the case on its current merits instead of just clicking the odometer ahead to "third try", you'd see why "up for discussion" is obvious.
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And what exactly makes you think I haven’t reviewed the “””merits””” and arrived at this conclusion?
 
Sasha Orlov said:
And what exactly makes you think I haven’t reviewed the “””merits””” and arrived at this conclusion?
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Based on you saying that's it's ridiculous that it's up for discussion, and that you believe it's a stupid decision, I took a hunch that you wouldn't bother to research something that you find both stupid and unworthy of discussion.

Feel free to educate me otherwise.
 
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Sasha Orlov said:
Giving a city a third try at a franchise is so insanely stupid I can’t even believe it’s up for discussion
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The Bulls are Chicago's third NBA team. The Nationals are Washington's third MLB team. Going back to the same city a third time is only stupid if you're opposed to the market having had a team to begin with. A Quebec City team, like it or not, would be their third NHL team. But ask anyone (even me) and they're all for seeing QC welcomed back to the NHL.

The Atlanta market didn't fail, just like the Quebec City market didn't fail. In Atlanta, ownership failed.

tucker3434 said:
I know. I'm just tired of hearing the same old lies repeated over and over again. If every market that saw <14k attendance since 1999 was deemed not good enough for NHL hockey, we'd be down to ~15 teams today. Ottawa, Winnipeg, Buffalo NYI, Pittsburgh, Washington and Chicago would all be gone. Edmonton slips by as their worst years were back in the mid rather than late 90's. Give teams a chance to rebound, and they typically do.
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And the bigger thing is, it's usually not because the fans don't care. Chicago's attendance woes happened, at least in part, because Bill Wirtz was a terrible owner. Seems like that's something folks here in Atlanta know all too well.
 
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tucker3434 said:
To repeat for the millionth time, between 1999 and 2011, the Chicago Blackhawks had 3 years of attendance worse than any single Thrashers season.
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...when they were a tanking team with high ticket prices, as soon as that was done their attendance went back to 22,247.

If that wasn't the case I'd be all for relocating them, just like moving the Flames and the Thrashers away from Atlanta was the right move.

AKL said:
Making an argument against Atlanta without just referencing the previous Atlanta teams would be a good start if you wanted to show people you evaluated it based on its current merits.
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You mean an ECHL team that ranks 14th in that league's attendance, with less than half of what the Jacksonville Icemen attract?
 
Albatros said:
...when they were a tanking team with high ticket prices, as soon as that was done their attendance went back to 22,247.

If that wasn't the case I'd be all for relocating them, just like moving the Flames and the Thrashers away from Atlanta was the right move.


You mean an ECHL team that ranks 14th in that league's attendance, with less than half of what the Jacksonville Icemen attract?
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As soon as they drafted Kane and Toews and started competing for cups, their attendance rebounded? I’m shocked.

Judging a fan base by their attendance when the team is in the gutter is ridiculous since more than half the markets won’t support lottery teams.
 
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AKL said:
An ECHL team that is...*checks notes*...28th in a 28 team league being 14th in league attendance seems like a reason to give Atlanta an NHL team.
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Two years ago they were the fourth best team in the league and ranked 12th in attendance. Or 14th in attendance when they last made the playoffs before the pandemic.
 
Albatros said:
Two years ago they were the fourth best team in the league and ranked 12th in attendance. Or 14th in attendance when they last made the playoffs before the pandemic.
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So they're reliably middle of the pack? I'm not seeing the issue here
 
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tucker3434 said:
As soon as they drafted Kane and Toews and started competing for cups, their attendance rebounded? I’m shocked.

Judging a fan base by their attendance when the team is in the gutter is ridiculous since more than half the markets won’t support lottery teams.
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It's like having a broken down Dodge Dart in your driveway and being told that it's really a Lamborghini and we just don't appreciate it and therefore should never be allowed to drive again.
 
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AKL said:
Yeah and fans don't care about the ECHL nearly as much as they care about the NHL.

Show me a single sport where the minor league team gets as much interest as the top tier major league team.
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The problem is that there are hardly any hockey fans in Atlanta after two franchises and 20 years of NHL hockey over five decades. If it wasn't so one wouldn't even have to look at their ECHL failures. It's like insisting that Phoenix is a good place for an NHL team, I'm sure a few years after losing the Coyotes we'll already have a discussion about how that city, too, has allegedly changed and would now be a great place for relocation. Maybe we can just as well have the Coyotes-Thrashers spend every 5 years in each city, rinse and repeat.

The Cleveland Monsters currently average over 10k in the AHL, that's a lot more than the Barons ever managed despite possessing the largest arena in the NHL. That's a city showing real growth.
 
Albatros said:
The problem is that there are hardly any hockey fans in Atlanta after two franchises and 20 years of NHL hockey over five decades. If it wasn't so one wouldn't even have to look at their ECHL failures. It's like insisting that Phoenix is a good place for an NHL team, I'm sure a few years after losing the Coyotes we'll already have a discussion about how that city, too, has allegedly changed and would now be a great place for relocation. Maybe we can just as well have the Coyotes-Thrashers spend every 5 years in each city, rinse and repeat.

The Cleveland Monsters currently average over 10k in the AHL, that's a lot more than the Barons ever managed despite possessing the largest arena in the NHL. That's a city showing real growth.
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I'm not going to sit here and tell you what to believe. Your beliefs are your own. But I would urge folks to look at actual facts before formulating an opinion, not ECHL attendance. A lack of support for the Thrashers isn't the reason why the team moved, the ownership not wanting the team is.

Funny enough, Atlanta Spirit hoped to salt the earth here in an effort to keep the NHL away, but all they really did is convince the easily manipulated the Atlanta market "doesn't deserve" hockey. It's always fascinated me that so many hockey fans wish to be gatekeepers rather than ambassadors.
 
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Hopefully no expansion for 5 years or so, it’s not needed, product has become diluted lately.
 
MuckOG said:
There are 2-3 players on most every team that probably should be playing in the AHL, but are forced onto an NHL roster because there isn't enough quality talent out there to fill those spots. Adding more teams means that number will grow.

I have an idea, why don't we grow the number of teams to 40? How about 50? When does enough become enough?
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For some teams, it’s because of the salary cap.
 
Just moved to Atlanta a few months ago. Do believe it can work here, but I have trouble with the Forsyth county location being the spot. Feel like that kinda makes it difficult for the casual fan. People point to the Braves in Cobb, but that’s an established, successful franchise and feels different.

Again, I think it’ll really work here. That location just feels like a misstep as opposed to a downtown arena.
 
MuckOG said:
Jump forward to now, USA hockey registration isn't growing at the same pace. Even here in Minnesota, we are seeing more HS teams co-op because they can no longer sustain on their own due to fewer players. Hockey is an expensive sport, combine that with the demographic shifts and we are starting to hit the wall on the number of new players taking up the game.

What additional regions can we draw new players from that we aren't now? The Far East or Africa?
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The kids from Florida, Cali and Arizona ;)
 
kingsholygrail said:
I'm not raging at all nor am I offended. I just think other cities should be considered before Atlanta because they've already failed twice to support a team. We already have the Coyotes. We don't need another one. Unless perhaps if they're willing to take the Coyotes.

And yes, I know they don't want the Coyotes. They want the Vegas treatment, though no one is ever getting the Vegas treatment again.
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I am sorry, what other city has 5 million people plus in the metro and some of the largest Fortune 500 companies?
 
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