NHL to Atlanta odds just increased significantly

[VaCaps Fan]

With all the Atlanta nhl rumors going around, what is the history of nhl in Atlanta in detail about the thrashers and Flames?

 

[Coffees]

With all the Atlanta nhl rumors going around, what is the history of nhl in Atlanta in detail about the thrashers and Flames?

The history of NHL in Atlanta is a story of two teams that came and went. The first team was the Atlanta Flames, which joined the NHL in 1972 as part of a four-team expansion. The Flames played at the Omni Coliseum and had moderate success, making the playoffs six times in eight seasons. However, they never advanced past the first round and struggled with attendance and financial issues. In 1980, the Flames were sold and relocated to Calgary, becoming the Calgary Flames


The second team was the Atlanta Thrashers, which began play in 1999 as part of a four-team expansion.
The Thrashers played at the Philips Arena (now State Farm Arena) and had a mostly disappointing history, finishing last in their division seven times and making the playoffs only once, in 2007, when they won the Southeast Division title but were swept by the New York Rangers in the first round. The Thrashers also faced challenges with attendance, ownership, and fan support. In 2011, the Thrashers were sold and moved to Winnipeg, becoming the second incarnation of the Winnipeg Jets

 

[vancityluongo]

The Atlanta Flames and the Atlanta Thrashers were both professional ice hockey teams based in Atlanta, Georgia, that competed in the National Hockey League (NHL). Despite sharing the same city and playing in the same league, these two teams had distinct histories and timelines.

1. **Atlanta Flames:**
- The Atlanta Flames were founded in 1972 as an expansion team of the NHL. They were one of six teams added to the league that year, along with the New York Islanders, Kansas City Scouts (later Colorado Rockies, now New Jersey Devils), and Washington Capitals.
- The Flames were initially successful, making the playoffs in six out of their eight seasons in Atlanta. However, they struggled financially due to low attendance and ultimately moved to Calgary, Alberta, Canada, in 1980.
- Upon relocating to Calgary, the team was renamed the Calgary Flames, where they continue to play to this day.

2. **Atlanta Thrashers:**
- The Atlanta Thrashers were established in 1999 as part of the NHL's expansion into non-traditional hockey markets. They were one of four teams added to the league that year, alongside the Columbus Blue Jackets, Minnesota Wild, and Nashville Predators.
- The Thrashers struggled on the ice for much of their existence, only making the playoffs once in their entire history (in the 2006-2007 season), where they were quickly eliminated in the first round.
- Despite efforts to increase fan support and improve the team's performance, the Thrashers continued to face financial challenges and struggled to attract a consistent fan base.
- In 2011, the team was sold to a group of investors who relocated the franchise to Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, where they were renamed the Winnipeg Jets, reviving the name of the city's former NHL team that had relocated to Phoenix, Arizona, and become the Phoenix Coyotes (now the Arizona Coyotes).

Both the Flames and the Thrashers left lasting legacies in Atlanta's hockey history, but neither team managed to establish long-term success or stability in the city.

_____________________

Certainly! Let's delve deeper into the histories of both the Atlanta Flames and the Atlanta Thrashers, including notable players and key seasons for each team:

**Atlanta Flames:**

1. **Notable Players:**
- **Tom Lysiak:** Lysiak was a standout center for the Flames in the 1970s, recording several impressive seasons and representing the team at the NHL All-Star Game multiple times.
- **Eric Vail:** Vail won the Calder Memorial Trophy as the NHL's rookie of the year in the 1974-1975 season while playing for the Flames. He was known for his scoring ability and played a key role for Atlanta during his time with the team.
- **Kent Nilsson:** Nilsson, nicknamed "Magic Man," was a highly skilled forward who played for the Flames in the late 1970s and early 1980s. He was known for his exceptional playmaking and offensive prowess.

2. **Key Seasons:**
- **1978-1979:** The Flames had their best regular-season performance in franchise history during the 1978-1979 season, finishing with a record of 41 wins, 31 losses, and 8 ties for a total of 90 points. They made it to the second round of the playoffs before being eliminated by the New York Rangers.
- **1979-1980:** This season marked the Flames' final year in Atlanta before relocating to Calgary. Despite finishing with a winning record, the team struggled in the playoffs, losing in the first round to the New York Rangers.

**Atlanta Thrashers:**

1. **Notable Players:**
- **Ilya Kovalchuk:** Kovalchuk was the face of the Thrashers franchise during his tenure with the team. He was a dynamic goal scorer and one of the league's top offensive talents, earning multiple All-Star selections and leading the NHL in goals during the 2003-2004 season.
- **Dany Heatley:** Heatley was another key offensive player for the Thrashers, forming a potent duo with Kovalchuk. He won the Calder Memorial Trophy in the 2001-2002 season and had several productive seasons in Atlanta before being traded.
- **Kari Lehtonen:** Lehtonen was the Thrashers' starting goaltender for many years and provided stability between the pipes. He set franchise records for wins and shutouts during his time with the team.

2. **Key Seasons:**
- **2006-2007:** The Thrashers qualified for the playoffs for the first and only time in franchise history during the 2006-2007 season. Led by Kovalchuk and Heatley, they finished atop the Southeast Division but were swept in the first round by the New York Rangers.
- **2010-2011:** This season proved to be the Thrashers' final one in Atlanta. Despite a promising start, the team struggled down the stretch and failed to make the playoffs. The ownership decided to sell the team, leading to its relocation to Winnipeg.

Despite the presence of talented players and occasional successes on the ice, both the Atlanta Flames and the Atlanta Thrashers faced challenges that ultimately led to their departure from the city.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

The history of NHL in Atlanta is a story of two teams that came and went. The first team was the Atlanta Flames, which joined the NHL in 1972 as part of a four-team expansion. The Flames played at the Omni Coliseum and had moderate success, making the playoffs six times in eight seasons. However, they never advanced past the first round and struggled with attendance and financial issues. In 1980, the Flames were sold and relocated to Calgary, becoming the Calgary Flames


The second team was the Atlanta Thrashers, which began play in 1999 as part of a four-team expansion.
The Thrashers played at the Philips Arena (now State Farm Arena) and had a mostly disappointing history, finishing last in their division seven times and making the playoffs only once, in 2007, when they won the Southeast Division title but were swept by the New York Rangers in the first round. The Thrashers also faced challenges with attendance, ownership, and fan support. In 2011, the Thrashers were sold and moved to Winnipeg, becoming the second incarnation of the Winnipeg Jets

The Atlanta Flames and the Atlanta Thrashers were both professional ice hockey teams based in Atlanta, Georgia, that competed in the National Hockey League (NHL). Despite sharing the same city and playing in the same league, these two teams had distinct histories and timelines.

1. **Atlanta Flames:**
- The Atlanta Flames were founded in 1972 as an expansion team of the NHL. They were one of six teams added to the league that year, along with the New York Islanders, Kansas City Scouts (later Colorado Rockies, now New Jersey Devils), and Washington Capitals.
- The Flames were initially successful, making the playoffs in six out of their eight seasons in Atlanta. However, they struggled financially due to low attendance and ultimately moved to Calgary, Alberta, Canada, in 1980.
- Upon relocating to Calgary, the team was renamed the Calgary Flames, where they continue to play to this day.

2. **Atlanta Thrashers:**
- The Atlanta Thrashers were established in 1999 as part of the NHL's expansion into non-traditional hockey markets. They were one of four teams added to the league that year, alongside the Columbus Blue Jackets, Minnesota Wild, and Nashville Predators.
- The Thrashers struggled on the ice for much of their existence, only making the playoffs once in their entire history (in the 2006-2007 season), where they were quickly eliminated in the first round.
- Despite efforts to increase fan support and improve the team's performance, the Thrashers continued to face financial challenges and struggled to attract a consistent fan base.
- In 2011, the team was sold to a group of investors who relocated the franchise to Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, where they were renamed the Winnipeg Jets, reviving the name of the city's former NHL team that had relocated to Phoenix, Arizona, and become the Phoenix Coyotes (now the Arizona Coyotes).

Both the Flames and the Thrashers left lasting legacies in Atlanta's hockey history, but neither team managed to establish long-term success or stability in the city.

_____________________

Certainly! Let's delve deeper into the histories of both the Atlanta Flames and the Atlanta Thrashers, including notable players and key seasons for each team:

**Atlanta Flames:**

1. **Notable Players:**
- **Tom Lysiak:** Lysiak was a standout center for the Flames in the 1970s, recording several impressive seasons and representing the team at the NHL All-Star Game multiple times.
- **Eric Vail:** Vail won the Calder Memorial Trophy as the NHL's rookie of the year in the 1974-1975 season while playing for the Flames. He was known for his scoring ability and played a key role for Atlanta during his time with the team.
- **Kent Nilsson:** Nilsson, nicknamed "Magic Man," was a highly skilled forward who played for the Flames in the late 1970s and early 1980s. He was known for his exceptional playmaking and offensive prowess.

2. **Key Seasons:**
- **1978-1979:** The Flames had their best regular-season performance in franchise history during the 1978-1979 season, finishing with a record of 41 wins, 31 losses, and 8 ties for a total of 90 points. They made it to the second round of the playoffs before being eliminated by the New York Rangers.
- **1979-1980:** This season marked the Flames' final year in Atlanta before relocating to Calgary. Despite finishing with a winning record, the team struggled in the playoffs, losing in the first round to the New York Rangers.

**Atlanta Thrashers:**

1. **Notable Players:**
- **Ilya Kovalchuk:** Kovalchuk was the face of the Thrashers franchise during his tenure with the team. He was a dynamic goal scorer and one of the league's top offensive talents, earning multiple All-Star selections and leading the NHL in goals during the 2003-2004 season.
- **Dany Heatley:** Heatley was another key offensive player for the Thrashers, forming a potent duo with Kovalchuk. He won the Calder Memorial Trophy in the 2001-2002 season and had several productive seasons in Atlanta before being traded.
- **Kari Lehtonen:** Lehtonen was the Thrashers' starting goaltender for many years and provided stability between the pipes. He set franchise records for wins and shutouts during his time with the team.

2. **Key Seasons:**
- **2006-2007:** The Thrashers qualified for the playoffs for the first and only time in franchise history during the 2006-2007 season. Led by Kovalchuk and Heatley, they finished atop the Southeast Division but were swept in the first round by the New York Rangers.
- **2010-2011:** This season proved to be the Thrashers' final one in Atlanta. Despite a promising start, the team struggled down the stretch and failed to make the playoffs. The ownership decided to sell the team, leading to its relocation to Winnipeg.

Despite the presence of talented players and occasional successes on the ice, both the Atlanta Flames and the Atlanta Thrashers faced challenges that ultimately led to their departure from the city.

Ok… so we can copy/paste Wikipedia. This doesn’t discuss what happened. Low attendance isn’t why either team was moved.

 

[vancityluongo]

Ok… so we can copy/paste Wikipedia. This doesn’t discuss what happened. Low attendance isn’t why either team was moved.

"are you sure it was low attendance?"

ChatGPT

While attendance certainly played a role in the struggles of both the Atlanta Flames and the Atlanta Thrashers, it wasn't the sole factor leading to their departures from the city. Financial difficulties, ownership issues, and market dynamics also contributed to the teams' decisions to relocate.

For the Atlanta Flames, attendance was indeed a significant issue. Despite initial enthusiasm for hockey in Atlanta, attendance figures began to decline in the late 1970s due to a combination of factors, including the team's on-ice performance, competition with other sports teams in the area, and challenges attracting a dedicated fan base. The team's struggles to fill seats ultimately led to financial losses and contributed to the decision to relocate to Calgary.

Similarly, the Atlanta Thrashers faced challenges with attendance during their time in Atlanta. While they initially drew crowds as an expansion team, attendance figures declined over the years due to the team's inconsistent performance, lack of sustained success, and competition for entertainment dollars in a city with a strong college football culture. Despite efforts to boost attendance and fan engagement, the Thrashers continued to face financial losses, which ultimately played a role in the decision to sell the team and relocate it to Winnipeg.

So, while low attendance was a factor in the struggles of both teams, it was part of a broader set of challenges that contributed to their departures from Atlanta.

 

[VaCaps Fan]

Thanks, rocking Atlanta thrashers at Norfolk (Winnipeg farm team) admirals game this weekend.

 

[dj4aces]

Much like Miss Cleo, ChatGPT is "for entertainment purposes only". But don't take it from me, just ask the lawyers who tried to use it in court.

Both teams did endure dwindling attendance, but that was an indicator of other issues, not of fan disinterest. For the Flames, the situation was the crashing real estate market. The owner, Tom Cousins, made his fortune based on real estate, so he went broke when the market crashed. His only liquid asset was the team, which he sold to the highest bidder, for a record $16 million.

The Thrashers, however, were doomed from the start. I've posted everything I know about the situation in the thread on the BoH board, and am not really interested in regurgitating it here, so I'll instead link to The Athletic's story from this past June ($$), which goes into some details on the matter, which should be more than sufficient in detailing exactly what went wrong if you don't feel like finding my post in the thread.

Edit: Correction to sales figure for the Flames.

 

[nhlfan79]

This question has been answered a million times over on these boards, probably mostly by me.

So, once again. Tom Cousins owned the Flames and was going bankrupt in the late 1970's because his primary commercial real estate business was tanking and he needed immediate cash. He sold to Nelson Skalbania in Calgary, who offered double the going market rate that local buyers had offered. It was the most expensive sale of a franchise ever at that time.

The Thrashers were initially awarded to media magnate Ted Turner, but quickly became a line item on AOL-Time Warner's balance sheet as that company imploded. They were supposed to be sold to David McDavid along with the Hawks and arena, but AOL-TW reneged and instead sold to an eight-person group called Atlanta Spirit, who later admitted in court documents that they only wanted the Hawks and arena because they were basketball people and immediately tried to sell the team (but could not because they had sued one of their own partners and it was not clear at that time which of two warring factions of them actually controlled the teams). On top of all that, they saw the Thrashers as competition for their preferred Hawks, so they cut payroll to the minimum, traded all the decent players, did zero marketing, and literally cursed at season ticket holders in a public team town hall meeting for daring to question why they were raising ticket prices while spending only to the cap floor. They then refused to negotiate in good faith with any potential buyer who wanted to keep the team here, telling them they could only use the arena if they paid an astronomical lease price with no rights to any parking, concessions, or souvenir revenue. So, they were deliberately evicted for the intended purpose of relocation.

Someone sticky this post!

 

[kingsholygrail]

Atlanta is a pipe dream. That city barely supports the teams it has.

 

[AKL]

This question has been answered a million times over on these boards, probably mostly by me.

So, once again. Tom Cousins owned the Flames and was going bankrupt in the late 1970's because his primary commercial real estate business was tanking and he needed immediate cash. He sold to Nelson Skalbania in Calgary, who offered double what local buyers had offered. It was the most expensive sale of a franchise ever at that time.

The Thrashers were initially awarded to media magnate Ted Turner, but quickly became a line item on AOL-Time Warner's balance sheet as that company imploded. They were supposed to be sold to David McDavid along with the Hawks and arena, but AOL-TW reneged and instead sold to an eight-person group called Atlanta Spirit, who later admitted in court documents that they only wanted the Hawks and arena because they were basketball people and immediately tried to sell the team (but could not because they had sued one of their own partners and it was not clear at that time which of two warring factions of them actually controlled the teams). On top of all that, they saw the Thrashers as competition for their preferred Hawks, so they cut payroll to the minimum, traded all the decent players, did zero marketing, and literally cursed at season ticket holders in a public team town hall meeting for daring to question why they were raising ticket prices while spending only to the cap floor. They then refused to negotiate in good faith with any potential buyer who wanted to keep the team here, telling them they could only use the arena if they paid an astronomical lease price with no rights to any parking, concessions, or souvenir revenue. So, they were essentially evicted for the intended purpose of relocation.

Someone sticky this post!

bUt tHe AtTeNdAnCe ThO

 

[nhlfan79]

Atlanta is a pipe dream. That city barely supports the teams it has.

You have 80,000 posts here. Are they all this lazy and uninformed?

 

[kingsholygrail]

You have 80,000 posts here. Are they all this lazy and uninformed?

Touched a nerve, did I? Georgia isn't all that different from Florida when it comes to sports. They love their college ball. Not much else.

 

[GreenHornet]

**Atlanta Flames:**


2. **Key Seasons:**
-They made it to the second round of the playoffs before being eliminated by the New York Rangers.

This is incorrect. The Flames never made it past the first round. In fact, their all-time playoff record (in six appearances was a mere 2-15.

Calgary Flames Playoff Record | StatMuse

Much like Miss Cleo, ChatGPT is "for entertainment purposes only". But don't take it from me, just ask the lawyers who tried to use it in court.

Both teams did endure dwindling attendance, but that was an indicator of other issues, not of fan disinterest. For the Flames, the situation was the crashing real estate market. The owner, Tom Cousins, made his fortune based on real estate, so he went broke when the market crashed. His only liquid asset was the team, which he sold to the highest bidder, for a record $26 million.

The Thrashers, however, were doomed from the start. I've posted everything I know about the situation in the thread on the BoH board, and am not really interested in regurgitating it here, so I'll instead link to The Athletic's story from this past June ($$), which goes into some details on the matter, which should be more than sufficient in detailing exactly what went wrong if you don't feel like finding my post in the thread.

Pretty much correct. My only quibble is that I'm pretty sure that Tom Cousins got only $16 million from Nelson Skalbania for the Flames instead of $26 million.

 

[nhlfan79]

Touched a nerve, did I? Georgia isn't all that different from Florida when it comes to sports. They love their college ball. Not much else.

No nerve touched at all. Your comment is just incredibly stupid, that's all. The Hawks are over 100% capacity. The Braves are top 3 in MLB. United is tops in MLS by a very wide margin. Every team here is very well supported.

If you have facts to the contrary, please share.

 

[Jared Dunn]

I'm happy for the fans who lost their team, but I really hope there's a better plan to make this work this time.

I suppose the more beneficial expansion drafts rules that Vegas and Seattle got compared to past teams will help. Having a franchise start out in the basement for years is not an easy way to build a fan base.

Honestly think it might be the Coyotes before expansion, who is the schmuck between Atlanta and SLC that loses out on the Coyotes and has to pay the $1B expansion fee?

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Atlanta is a pipe dream. That city barely supports the teams it has.

Which team? The Braves which just finished 4th in attendance? The Hawks that has sold out over the last couple years? The MLS team that has broken attendance records?
Enlighten us.

 

[VaCaps Fan]

Hoping to get to the braves wearing my chief knocka homa stuff this year.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

This question has been answered a million times over on these boards, probably mostly by me.

So, once again. Tom Cousins owned the Flames and was going bankrupt in the late 1970's because his primary commercial real estate business was tanking and he needed immediate cash. He sold to Nelson Skalbania in Calgary, who offered double the going market rate that local buyers had offered. It was the most expensive sale of a franchise ever at that time.

The Thrashers were initially awarded to media magnate Ted Turner, but quickly became a line item on AOL-Time Warner's balance sheet as that company imploded. They were supposed to be sold to David McDavid along with the Hawks and arena, but AOL-TW reneged and instead sold to an eight-person group called Atlanta Spirit, who later admitted in court documents that they only wanted the Hawks and arena because they were basketball people and immediately tried to sell the team (but could not because they had sued one of their own partners and it was not clear at that time which of two warring factions of them actually controlled the teams). On top of all that, they saw the Thrashers as competition for their preferred Hawks, so they cut payroll to the minimum, traded all the decent players, did zero marketing, and literally cursed at season ticket holders in a public team town hall meeting for daring to question why they were raising ticket prices while spending only to the cap floor. They then refused to negotiate in good faith with any potential buyer who wanted to keep the team here, telling them they could only use the arena if they paid an astronomical lease price with no rights to any parking, concessions, or souvenir revenue. So, they were deliberately evicted for the intended purpose of relocation.

Someone sticky this post!

Just bookmarked the page so I can just copy/paste. Well done

 

[dj4aces]

Pretty much correct. My only quibble is that I'm pretty sure that Tom Cousins got $16 million from Nelson Skalbania for the Flames instead of $26.

Ah yes, good catch! Thank you! I've corrected that in my original post.

Honestly think it might be the Coyotes before expansion, who is the schmuck between Atlanta and SLC that loses out on the Coyotes and has to pay the $1B expansion fee?

It's all about perspective. Pagnotta has said Smith has allegedly offered a sum much higher than market value for the Coyotes. Not sure that's true, and I'm sure some folks from the Coyotes thread will debate that.

If it instead turns out to be Atlanta who buys the team, I don't think people here will care much. Folks just want hockey back.

But with that said, we've seen this play out before. "The Coyotes are done in the desert", only to get saved at the last possible moment. I'll believe they're done when I see Bettman and whichever owner takes them in at a press conference in whatever city they're moving to... but as always, I want to be clear, in that I do not in any way wish for the Coyotes to leave Arizona. I do hope Meruelo actually has a plan and is making sure the owners and Bettman known about it.

 

[kingsholygrail]

No nerve touched at all. Your comment is just incredibly stupid, that's all. The Hawks are over 100% capacity. The Braves are top 3 in MLB. United is tops in MLS by a very wide margin. Every team here is very well supported.

If you have facts to the contrary, please share.

Except the two hockey teams you had.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Except the two hockey teams you had.

No, that’s not what you were lying about… come on now. Which teams does Atlanta not support?

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Odds of Atlanta losing a team increase accordingly, got em, heyooo

 

[kingsholygrail]

No, that’s not what you were lying about… come on now. Which teams does Atlanta not support?

The Falcons are in the bottom half of the NFL in a good year. The Hawks are near the bottom of the NBA in attendance. You're right about the Braves. But the NHL isn't baseball. I don't believe for one second Atlanta can support a hockey team and history agrees with me.

 

[Mobiandi]

Atlanta will be as successful as Vegas

 

[GreenHornet]

But with that said, we've seen this play out before. "The Coyotes are done in the desert", only to get saved at the last possible moment. I'll believe they're done when I see Bettman and whichever owner takes them in at a press conference in whatever city they're moving to... but as always, I want to be clear, in that I do not in any way wish for the Coyotes to leave Arizona. I do hope Meruelo actually has a plan and is making sure the owners and Bettman known about it.

True, but this time, it feels different. I have nothing to back this up with, but I just get this sense of finality this time.

That said, I'm with you about hoping Muerelo pulls a rabbit out of the hat. What I think is more realistic for the long-term in Arizona, however, might be the idea that has been floated about selling and relocating the 'Yotes to SLC, but finding some other investor (like maybe Ishbia, with or without Muerelo as a partner) to keep working on a new arena and giving them an expansion team when/if they ever do.